Just returned from the Musclecar Drag Racing day and when I thought I had fluked a 13.5 run last time I totally blew myself away today with several 13.4's then added the second coil and consistantly ran 13.2's and the last run was a [email protected] and on a mixture 20 litres of 98 and 5 litres of race fuel.
This well and truelly exceeds my expectations of this little motor and I when I hooked up the twin coils it added 2/10s from running 13.4 to consistant 13.2
I think if I changed the diff for traction then it would bring me into the 12s
13.1@103mph amazing little 202
Started by
_NZ Toranaman_
, Mar 14 2009 06:56 PM
34 replies to this topic
#2
Struggler
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Posted 14 March 2009 - 07:04 PM
Not too bad.
I would be the first to say the twin coil deal was a joke, but the time slips don't lie. What MPH increase did you experience ??
I would be the first to say the twin coil deal was a joke, but the time slips don't lie. What MPH increase did you experience ??
#3
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 14 March 2009 - 07:13 PM
Not too bad.
I would be the first to say the twin coil deal was a joke, but the time slips don't lie. What MPH increase did you experience ??
The MPH was only about 1mph but it was the revs in 3rd that made the difference as I reckon I gained about 200-400rpm in 3rd which made the change to 4th at about 6500rpm instead of 6200rpm and I was able to catch the cam better in top.
I have watched the incar vid and I definetely hold 3rd longer and higher rpm.
The other 2 things I did helped as well. I dropped the exhaust off from the collector and I adjusted the linkages at the track before racing and I think I found the sweet spot for them
#4
lakeside
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Lotsa Posts!
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:05 AM
running street tyres or slicks?
#5
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:02 AM
running street tyres or slicks?
Bridgestone Potenza GIII 205x14x60 with 24PSI
Below is another of my tweaks.
I have a confession though.... the diff is not exactly as factory as I asked my mate who threw it together (his words) from spare bits laying around my garage and he said he loaded it up and made this open diff act like a twin spool so in fact although one wheel spins most of the time but the other is also getting some power to the ground.
I have no idea how this is done but then he has been tinkering with Toranas since they were new and here in NZ he would be the leading expert in anything to do with a HB/LC/LJ. Maybe someone technical can enlighten me on this?
This shows the beginning of the burnout and soon after the second wheel
#6
debkar
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:10 AM
Hi
Top result. What diff ratio are you running? I may have missed the post that states ratio.
LSD would help for sure, I used to run 3.9 gears in mine with LSD, made huge difference. Also ran M21 V8 ratios in box, to help stay on cam, only dropping fee hundred revs between gears. Oh and a tank full of Avgas, always was nice,
Well done,
Regards Simon
Top result. What diff ratio are you running? I may have missed the post that states ratio.
LSD would help for sure, I used to run 3.9 gears in mine with LSD, made huge difference. Also ran M21 V8 ratios in box, to help stay on cam, only dropping fee hundred revs between gears. Oh and a tank full of Avgas, always was nice,
Well done,
Regards Simon
#7
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:21 AM
Quick stats:
202 Black motor rebuilt with new pistons, bearings and rings. Stock rods
Yella Terra 12-port which I had a valve grind recently and new springs fitted
Pro Comp roller rockers (cheap but figured I needed em)
186 pushrods (they are perfect length and hardened)
Kelford cam (Local to Christchurch)
Solids
Stock Lightened flywheel
Stock Electronic Ignition
Stock M20 (Everyone reckons this should have broken years ago)
Stock 3.55:1 Open diff (My third Bango)
I have considered selling this engine but have no idea what a 13.1 202 is worth...
202 Black motor rebuilt with new pistons, bearings and rings. Stock rods
Yella Terra 12-port which I had a valve grind recently and new springs fitted
Pro Comp roller rockers (cheap but figured I needed em)
186 pushrods (they are perfect length and hardened)
Kelford cam (Local to Christchurch)
Solids
Stock Lightened flywheel
Stock Electronic Ignition
Stock M20 (Everyone reckons this should have broken years ago)
Stock 3.55:1 Open diff (My third Bango)
I have considered selling this engine but have no idea what a 13.1 202 is worth...
#8
_tyre fryer_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:39 AM
Quick stats:
202 Black motor rebuilt with new pistons, bearings and rings. Stock rods
Yella Terra 12-port which I had a valve grind recently and new springs fitted
Pro Comp roller rockers (cheap but figured I needed em)
186 pushrods (they are perfect length and hardened)
Kelford cam (Local to Christchurch)
Solids
Stock Lightened flywheel
Stock Electronic Ignition
Stock M20 (Everyone reckons this should have broken years ago)
Stock 3.55:1 Open diff (My third Bango)
I have considered selling this engine but have no idea what a 13.1 202 is worth...
I'd be keen! but not sure on what it'd be worth though.
thanks for sharing your sprecs, what would be really great for us palying at home would be to see a ground up build of this motor. I am very keen to build a similar style engine, do you drive yours on the street and if so, how often?
thanks mate.
Matt
#9
debkar
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:40 AM
I think it would be worth many $$$$ proven 13 second motor.
I for one would be interested, but may cost some to get it to OZ,
I think 3.90s would drop you into 12s, just my opinion though, guess it depends on revs at end of quarter,
Possibly secret to power is in the cam, do you mind sharing specs?
Regards Simon
I for one would be interested, but may cost some to get it to OZ,
I think 3.90s would drop you into 12s, just my opinion though, guess it depends on revs at end of quarter,
Possibly secret to power is in the cam, do you mind sharing specs?
Regards Simon
#10
rodomo
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:56 AM
What carby/s? 
#11
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:03 AM
The cam is really not much really basically a hot street cam I would call it, still running 1.5 rocker ratio as well and total lift less than .5" lobe seperation is reasonable at 108
To be honest it is a package and it has all clicked.
It caused a bit of a stir at the drags as not a single F@rd could keep up with me in there 351s and only 1 Corvette was faster than me and there were around 10-12 of them, a 365kW SS Commy only managed 13.6. I had people coming over to me totally amazed that it wasn't turbo'd
I drive on the street as much as I can and it pulls nice from 2000rpm and I take it down to 1500rpm in top. The youtube vid shows a top gear roll on from 1500rpm
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AUb6G9CTjp8
To be honest it is a package and it has all clicked.
It caused a bit of a stir at the drags as not a single F@rd could keep up with me in there 351s and only 1 Corvette was faster than me and there were around 10-12 of them, a 365kW SS Commy only managed 13.6. I had people coming over to me totally amazed that it wasn't turbo'd
I drive on the street as much as I can and it pulls nice from 2000rpm and I take it down to 1500rpm in top. The youtube vid shows a top gear roll on from 1500rpm
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AUb6G9CTjp8
#12
debkar
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:50 AM
Awesome, you must have great torque from motor. Was that video with triple webbers on the motor?
#13
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:15 PM
Awesome, you must have great torque from motor. Was that video with triple webbers on the motor?
Yep sure was and that was before I started tweaking this engine.
Torque is what helps this engine quarter as well as HP as I cannot do 2500rpm+ starts as I just get tire spin. Once I did a 1/2 track burnout as I started in 3rd gear when the lights were broken at the track as it took that long to get traction!
BTW the carbs are 45 DCOE with 38mm chokes (36mm are recommended for the street)
Now everyone has had someone saying about how crappy the Yella Terra heads are well I would say buy one (12-port) and then you can see how crappy they are too as if this is crappy then what does a good head go like
Oh and I bought these carbs from ebay in Oz second hand and the only thing changed was the idle jets as Dave had a smaller set lying around the shed and it was fouling the plugs. This engine has never been on a gas analyzer or dyno
#14
debkar
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:36 PM
Sounds good, 45s are very nice to have.
I have 12 port head for my car, red head, not too sure if mine started out as YT or not. I have heard more good than bad about YT heads over the years. I have seen some very fast 6s with YT heads,
My LJ ran a head that was based on YT Bathurst 12 port, can't recall the YT part number , then superflow did some extra flow work, not really sure how much that gained me,
I have 12 port head for my car, red head, not too sure if mine started out as YT or not. I have heard more good than bad about YT heads over the years. I have seen some very fast 6s with YT heads,
My LJ ran a head that was based on YT Bathurst 12 port, can't recall the YT part number , then superflow did some extra flow work, not really sure how much that gained me,
#15
_tyre fryer_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 04:14 PM
Is that an alloy 12-port or cast style?
Pretty similar lift to my cam (similar to xu1) but that is some HUGE duration.
I'm liking what you did to your crank and wondering how much it would cost to pay a pro to do the same.
For such simple modifications I didn't think that 13 seconds would be possible from a Holden 6 letalone talk of 12s!
I guess the Webbers do most of that work. wonder what a double barrel would do (like a Holley).
Pretty similar lift to my cam (similar to xu1) but that is some HUGE duration.
I'm liking what you did to your crank and wondering how much it would cost to pay a pro to do the same.
For such simple modifications I didn't think that 13 seconds would be possible from a Holden 6 letalone talk of 12s!
I guess the Webbers do most of that work. wonder what a double barrel would do (like a Holley).
#16
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 March 2009 - 05:37 PM
Is that an alloy 12-port or cast style?
Pretty similar lift to my cam (similar to xu1) but that is some HUGE duration.
I'm liking what you did to your crank and wondering how much it would cost to pay a pro to do the same.
For such simple modifications I didn't think that 13 seconds would be possible from a Holden 6 letalone talk of 12s!
I guess the Webbers do most of that work. wonder what a double barrel would do (like a Holley).
It is a cast iron head.
The crank took me a couple of days to shape and anyone could do it. I thought of a boat going through water compared to a barge so basically put a bow on the front and rounded the rear.
Camshafts should be designed to your specific car as there are a number of factors that need to be calculated and if someone tries to sell you a cam without asking these questions then I would go elsewhere.
I have had a 450 4-barrel on this engine which gave it incredible tire shredding torque but lost the top end. (It takes me 30 minutes to change from 3 x Webers to the 4-barrel)
#17
MRLXSS
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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:43 AM
Congrats mate! 13.1 is bloody awesome!!!! There are some very quick new cars that don't even get close to those sort of times!!!!! How awesome would a 12.99 be out of a 202!!!! GO FOR GOLD!!!
#18
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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:31 PM
hayden is well into the 12's with his old girl man!?
good effort for sure though graham that is fast. 9 inch and some real sticky tires are all you need now!
ben
good effort for sure though graham that is fast. 9 inch and some real sticky tires are all you need now!
ben
#19
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:49 AM
hayden is well into the 12's with his old girl man!?
good effort for sure though graham that is fast. 9 inch and some real sticky tires are all you need now!
ben
Yea the engine that hayden has is a beauty, Remeber though I still run stock bolts and rods.
I am trying to scrape enough for my Hilux to be set up but things are tight at present.
If I replace the rear I thinking I will put alot more stress on the rest of the drivetrain so I need to be careful, this is another reason I am wary about a locked diff.
Tires.... I wish I could borrow some 14" slicks to try
Bag of sand in the boot time I think
#20
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:40 PM
looking at the hieght of the rear of your car there is a fair bit of scope to improve your launch and hook up.
#21
_Allports_
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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:53 PM
2nd that on the susp.
What you do to the open centre to make it 2wheel is you put in a worn out pinion axle in the hemisphere so when the power is applied it locks up slightly out of whack and binds the 2 pinion gears in the hemisphere together and hey presto 2 wheels, but soon it'll go bang.
What you do to the open centre to make it 2wheel is you put in a worn out pinion axle in the hemisphere so when the power is applied it locks up slightly out of whack and binds the 2 pinion gears in the hemisphere together and hey presto 2 wheels, but soon it'll go bang.
#22
_gmlj6_
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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:22 PM
you should try get another diff centre and weld it up
if it brake no worrys doesnt take long to switch back to ur open center.
if it brake no worrys doesnt take long to switch back to ur open center.
#23
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:59 PM
Thanks Guys.
I am putting the Hilux in it in May and will start with a 4.1 LSD centre. I have 2 3.9 open centres as well.
I havn't put the standard springs in it yet as I will need softer shocks and need to check the length.
Wish Plans:
Cold air box - need to make
soften rear - have standard springs - need shocks
bolt on tramp bars - need this for softer rear
Hilux diff + 4.1 LSD - have this (mounts being added now, be ready May)
5-speed supra - have this but it will need full cert to use.
remove fan
larger water pump pully
better plugs - using std NGK
bolt on additional side exhaust outlet for racing
I am putting the Hilux in it in May and will start with a 4.1 LSD centre. I have 2 3.9 open centres as well.
I havn't put the standard springs in it yet as I will need softer shocks and need to check the length.
Wish Plans:
Cold air box - need to make
soften rear - have standard springs - need shocks
bolt on tramp bars - need this for softer rear
Hilux diff + 4.1 LSD - have this (mounts being added now, be ready May)
5-speed supra - have this but it will need full cert to use.
remove fan
larger water pump pully
better plugs - using std NGK
bolt on additional side exhaust outlet for racing
#24
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 15 April 2009 - 07:09 PM
2nd that on the susp.
What you do to the open centre to make it 2wheel is you put in a worn out pinion axle in the hemisphere so when the power is applied it locks up slightly out of whack and binds the 2 pinion gears in the hemisphere together and hey presto 2 wheels, but soon it'll go bang.
I actually had a bit of a moment last week when I turned onto a 100km/h stretch from a side street and booted it in 2nd, it spun the left wheel a bit more than the right which started the rear drifting then snapped back as it spun the right more and caused it to drift the other way and then went back the other way all within about 2 seconds and only came right when I lifted the pedal a bit.
It just warned me that I need a decent LSD and showed me how taily it can be under power.
#25
_Squarepants_
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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:02 PM
Hey mate, 13.1 from a 202 is a great achievement! 
I thought you were grasping at straws with your twin coil idea but the numbers don't lie! Nice work man! I'm actually quite jealous and am endeavouring to learn more about what you've actually done to your car and motor. Don't be surprised if I send you a barrage of stupid questions in the next few months.
I thought you were grasping at straws with your twin coil idea but the numbers don't lie! Nice work man! I'm actually quite jealous and am endeavouring to learn more about what you've actually done to your car and motor. Don't be surprised if I send you a barrage of stupid questions in the next few months.
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