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grinding metal from brake calipers ( a9x style )

Started by _torana_ , Dec 20 2005 08:22 PM

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#1 _torana_

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:22 PM

hi all
ive modified my lh torana to hq stubs on the front ( swapped from left to right ) and have bought a set of harrop a9x steering arms for the mod. I also have a set of wb calipers ( girlock alloy type ).

Now stop me if im wrong but what Ive read is that this is what was set up on the original a9x toranas. ( holden they made their own steering arms, and all calipers have same mounting arms, but calipers are cast iron or alloy )

I could place the stubs back the other way and have the calipers on the rear half of the front disc, but in full lock the pads hit the crossmember, and push the pads out ( not good next time you need to brake

)

With the new harrop a9x arms ( to remove bump steer ) the tierod now sits higher, and fouls on the caliper. Ive heard of people putting the tierod end upside down, but then your steering arm isnt parallel to your lower control arm so your steering would be buggered so thats not an option. :(

I heard that the holden engineers ground the calipers to fit over the ball joint but have never seen a pic or set of ground a9x calipers in real life. Does anyone have a pic i could reference, as I have ground mine and they now clear the ball joint in full lock both ways and as well in full suspension travel, but i just wanted to make sure, as you have to grind a fair bit to fit over the tierod with full travel room, but theres still plenty of meat left, just wanted to double check.

Has anyone done this conversion with the a9x arms that can share their experience with me?

Cheers Julian

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#2 dattoman

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:35 PM

I wish I still had a pair of A9X calipers to take pics of for you
Yes the brackets are clearanced for the tierod end. It was a factory thing cast by Girlock at the time not ground down by Holden. The caliper is unique to that model and was made to specification taking all this into account
I have seen many WB calipers ground as you have done and never heard of any being weak. As you say there is plenty of meat in that area that can be safely taken off.
Next pair of calipers I see I'll take some pics....... might be awhile though

Neil

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#3 _timbotorrie_

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:39 PM

i put HZ stub axles on ther front of my LH, i used the torrie arm and mounted the calipers on the front, had to grind the caliper mount to clear the tie rod end, but works really well! no strength issues as there is plenty of metal left, did a test one that i belted with a sledge hammer and abused it big time, but it would not break, so i dont think i will have a prob!

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#4 _torana_

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 09:30 PM

thanks dattoman, a pic would be greatly appreciated in the future. Can you still buy the a9x brakes from girlock or is it soething lost in time. The later I assume.

to timbotorrie, if you use the proper a9x arms you have to grind more out than you would have to if you use the original torana arms as they make the tierod end sit higher. Ive taken some pics and will try to post them tomorrow to show my mods.

At least if the caliper arm was to break in my situation, it would be the lower bolt which means if the car is rolling forward the brakes would not gouge into the wheel seizing it and making it stop instantly.

But if I was going fast in reverse? I wonder? :lol:

Cheers Julian

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#5 Dangerous

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 12:18 PM

Here you go, Torana!

Posted Image

How did you go about relocating the brake lines and bleed nipples? Or did you leave them standard, and intend on removing the calipers to bleed them?

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#6 Toranamat69

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 07:04 PM

Dangerous, I had to stand on my head for that one

Do you own an A9X?

Torana,

The A9X steering arms mount the outter tie rodend lower, not higher which means you would have to remove more metal with a standard Torana steering arm.

M@

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#7 _torana_

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 09:07 PM

you got me toranamat69!
I should have double checked that before i blurted it out earlier that they are higher, thanks for the pickup.

And to dangerous you are a legend. My grinding attempt looks nearly spot on to whats in you pic. You asked How did you go about relocating the brake lines and bleed nipples? Or did you leave them standard, and intend on removing the calipers to bleed them? The calipers i have should make bleeding easy and I can use a later commodore banjo style line which fits nicely.

As promised here are my pics of the torana to hq/wb conversion so far.
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pic 1: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms from front
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pic 2: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms from rear
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pic 3: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms fitted to pasenger side with tie rod attached
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pic 4: passenger side caliper mounting bracket ( wb? ) with metal ground away for tie rod clearance
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pic 5: the master at work!

( note super cheap grinder/japanese safety boots/and petrol station sunnies )
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pic 6: both caliper mounting brackets ( wb? ) with metal ground away for tie rod clearance
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pic 7: passenger side caliper mounting bracket ( wb? ) with metal ground away for tie rod clearance mounted on car to show clearance ( make sure you check full lock and full suspension travel )
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pic 8: wb? caliper with commodore banjo style brake line and bleeder at the top
Posted Image

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hope you like, and thanks to everyone for the help so far.
cheers Julian

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#8 Toranamat69

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 10:53 PM

I've got the ol'e supercheaper grinder too - mines even got a rooted switch too.

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#9 _torana_

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 06:07 AM

the disc romaval button is suffed on mine so the wheels getting smaller and smaller. For $20 you cannot complain.

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#10 Dangerous

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 10:13 AM

Good work, Torana! Can you please check one thing for me? The Harrop arms don't have 'steering limiter' stops on the inside edges of the tie rod location, and the standard Holden ones do. I't's a 'protrusion' on the tie rod end that contacts the lower wishbone on full lock. I presume that the Holden setup was to stop caliper fouling on the wishbone.

Can you check your setup with the Harrop arms, and see if they are likely to allow too much steering movement, leading to fouling problems?

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#11 Dangerous

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 10:16 AM

Dangerous, I had to stand on my head for that one Do you own an A9X?

Torana,

The A9X steering arms mount the outter tie rodend lower, not higher which means you would have to remove more metal with a standard Torana steering arm.

M@

Well, let's just say that I know exactly where one is

Oh, and the reason for the 'upside down' photo is that it's much easier to reassemble a front end while it's upside down and resting on the mounting bolts than right way up

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#12 YiriSS

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:23 PM

thanks Torana,datto,and dangerous

i reckon this thread should be a 'sticky'

ive been reading all the posts regarding the torana to HQ brake swap , and all it did was confuse me.
i have all the bits i need , i was just confused as to how and where to grind the metal away!
the pics are very much appreciated, thank you.

now i know exactly where to take out the 'extra metal'

cheers

mick

Edited by YiriSS, 24 December 2005 - 09:28 PM.

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#13 Tiny

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:29 PM

Ok guys, Ive moved this topic to the brake section wehre it should be, as well as making it a sticky.

Defintiely good advise there and top photos of it all!

Well done and thanks!

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#14 _torana_

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:54 AM

if you want any more info feel free to pm/email me.

I will also post some more pics of when i finish after chrissy and the holidays.

cheers julian

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#15 YiriSS

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 04:57 PM

thanks mate , i will for sure

where abouts are you on the central coast?

any where near coffs harbour?
im going to be visiting there in late january!

cheers

mick

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#16 _torana_

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 06:58 PM

hi all
Im back from my holidays at tassie, and are back into the torana. Shouldnt be long before she rolling again.

Sorry YiriSS, but im on the central coast ( between newcastle and sydney about 4 hours from coffs harbour ) not sure if youll be down this far but pm me for more info.

As promissed here are the rest of the shots from the conversion

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pic 9: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms and wb calipers ( modded ) and commodore brake lines from front
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pic 10: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms and wb calipers ( modded ) and commodore brake lines from rear
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pic 11: hq stubs with harrop a9x steering arms and wb calipers ( modded ) and commodore brake lines from rear
Posted Image

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thats all for now. If anyone needs anymore info get in touch with me.
cheers julian

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#17 fuzzypumper

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 01:37 PM

Hi
Im about to attempt this conversion myself but still have some questions.

1. Do you have to change brake master cylinder to cater for or HZ/WB caliper piston capacity? Which type of brake master cylinder are most people using in this conversion?

2. As I cant seem to find a seal reco kit for the brake proportioning valve anywhere these days, I may have to go for the combo master cylinder/valve as used in later cars. I have seen conversions but was wondering what type? Commodore 1" master cylinder or do they use somthing else?

Thanks

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#18 dattoman

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 08:48 PM

1. No
2. Seals are just Orings..... Bearing services can supply. Use a XD Falcon master if your doing the swap.... but you need to mod the booster too as they mount diagonally

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#19 fuzzypumper

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 10:46 PM

Thanks dattoman,
But I would have thought modding the booster would be a harder excercise than finding a proper horizontal mounted master cylinder.
Are you saying the commodore 1" type wouldnt work?

Also I have seen the you cant use the HQ/HZ steering arms but need A9X type to prevent bump steer. However I assume they still fit?

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#20 dattoman

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 10:53 PM

All ADR style (prop in master) are diagonal mount
So they won't bolt to your booster
Theres nothing wrong with the original type master in good condition

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#21 arrimar

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 12:01 AM

the HQ-Z steering arms do not play a part in the conversion.

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#22 _LX8VD69_

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 01:09 AM

All ADR style (prop in master) are diagonal mount
So they won't bolt to your booster

hey neil i know you do brakes for a living so forgive me if i seem rude but arent UC master cylinders mounted horizontally and they have the internal proportioning valve, im probably wrong but im pretty sure ive used a UC brake booster in a LX at one time. admitedly its been a long time since i did this but im still pretty sure i did it

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#23 fuzzypumper

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 01:30 AM

the HQ-Z steering arms do not play a part in the conversion.

Sorry but I didnt understand what you meant Arrimar?
You can use them or
Dont use them and pay all my life savings for a pair of "S"shaped pieces of steel with 3 holes in them that will solve world hunger, bring peace and prosperity to all mankind and makes me coffee from Harrop? :cry:

The UC master cylinder scenario sounds good if its combo unit but I was never sure they where.

Edited by fuzzypumper, 14 February 2007 - 01:33 AM.

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#24 dattoman

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 09:14 AM

Late UC master with inbuilt prop is a Commodore one 15/16"
Diagonal mount
You could use the UC bootser to go with it to make it work
Prefferably the late one with double diaphragm from a disc brake car

Otherwise you need to mod your booster