37 replies to this topic

[Toranamat69]

G'day guys,

I have wanted to get a few people to check something for me on their Torana front subframes - should be useful info to all as well.

I have heard these front subframes were prone to bending. Just wondering what measurement your front subframes are across the top mounting holes (centre to centre) where the subframe bolts to the chassis.

I have 2 UC front subframes here - a really good original undamaged one from a 4 cylinder sunbird (proppa holden6/V8 mounts though) which measures 794mm across the top and the other one has had a couple of dings in it's life and measures 790mm across the top mounting holes.

Regarding some of your Q's below,

Not sure what others think the best balljoints quality-wise are but I am using the repco sealed type as they allow a better wheel clearnce if you are going big buggers and you don;t have to remember to grease them.

What wheels are you going? as I would potentially run a different stub if going wide offset.

With the control arm bushes, any reason you want the rubber uppers? it is to stop the squeak fromt the polyurethane? If it is, I believe both the upper and lower control arm bushes will squeak with poyurethane now tha I have sus'd out the front end a bit more recently. The upper bushes will squeak if poly as they are sliding on the metal components, the lower bushes squeak as the bushes bind similarly to the rear end bushes (but to a lesser amount).

I believe the LH, LX and UC all used the same steering rack ratio with the exception the fast racks in the A9X's.

M@

Edited by Toranamat69, 29 January 2006 - 12:04 PM.

[Toranamat69]

I only measured the front holes originally so I just went and double checked - I agree with your figures above on the good front end (i.e. the 794F/792R)

The other one I have is 790F/789R hole spacing. This one is going to be my workshop jig front end so I can try out things when people ask me so I will have to get it straightened back out to the correct hole spacing.

M@

[Toranamat69]

I just give warnings usually, but any naughty women - they can go straight to my room

I just said my car was the R&D machine one day at a show and voila it turned up on the forum - I has spurred me along to get into things though that is for sure - especially with the steering and front end project.

M@

[Toranamat69]

Here is a pic of the upper balljoint in my LX - these are the Repco upper type. They make a similar sealed lower balljoint but they look identical to any other holden lower balljoint, just no grease nipple.

These upper ones are shorter in that they don't have the 1/2" tall top hat on them.

Mine have done approx 28,000k's and feel fine still. These are the only ones I have tried so I don't know how long others last and the pros and cons of the other brands.



I havn't done a back to back trial of rubber front bushes vs Polyurethane, I like the positive feel of the bushes, but I can't stand the squeaking suspension you get with polyurethane and would like to shut it up.

I have been checking out the original rubber bushes and the poly ones here deciding what to use for my test setup. Both the rubber and poly types will provide resistance to suspension movement as they are bonded to the metal sleeve so I am looking for a fully floating type arrangement. I have just ordered some poly-graphite upper ones for a Chevelle which should get here in a week or so and hopefully they will fit.
I already have the polygraphite lower bushes here. They differ from our local polyurethane ones in 3 ways I can see.
1. they have the graphite impregnated so should have some self lubing properties and hopefully not squeak.
2. they are a free floating bushing i.e. you can remove the bushes from their sleeves and they can pivot inside their sleeves.
3. they have some extra pieces to try to stop the bushes popping back out of the control arm as I have heard of happen to some people.

M@

[Toranamat69]

That pic is with the wheels at full right lock so I could get the camera in there - my rims actually sit directly over the top of the balljoint.

[dattoman]

If you lower the upper arm mounting points but continue to use the Torana stub how will that affect the geometry
As the A9X used essentially HX 1 ton arms with a different KPI to the torana stubs
What steering arms will you be using ?

I want to know as I have my Xmember out now to fit the Chev so was wondering

On the outer tierod end which way does the joint go in?
Nut up or down?
Mines down........ and I assume they are UC steering arms to match the rest of the UC front

[StephenSLR]

But hoppers make an HQ kit, so I could go with that if I needed to run HQ stubs.

By HQ kit they mean same diameter discs as a HQ takes.

Always get the Torana kit (Ford sized smaller discs give you the right clearance) and get them to fabricate the disc in any stud pattern you desire.

I have gone for a Commodore stud pattern rear so will do the same for the front due to the wide variety of wheel choice there is.

Why are you going HQ pattern anyway, do you have a Salisbury rear end with HQ pattern or some HQ mags ready to go on?

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 02 February 2006 - 08:54 AM.

[Toranamat69]

QIKSLR,

The KPI is built into the design of the stub axle itself and can only be changed via a stub axle change.

When you put the A9X steering arms on the HQ stubs, it improves the bumpsteer issues only.
You can compensate for the different static camber you get between a 9 degree and 7 degree stub axle by getting a wheel alignment.

At the moment, I view the 7 degree KPI to be the better choice from a handling point of view as you don't lose as much camber on turns but the difference is pretty small.

The other differnence I see is that you will end up with a smaller scrub radius if you are using the 7 degree KPI which will make your steering lighter and give less steering feedback (of the type you do not want) Basically you can run a wider offset rim whilst maintaining the same scrub radius if you use the HQ stub axles.

This is why I asked what wheels and tires you had planned as I can do a scketch for you when I re-install autocad on my PC.

The wheel offset, width and diameter will also have a bearing on your scrub radius.
If you can give me those details.

I ordered a Castor and camber gauge and Toe-in gauges last night from summit racing so they should also be here in a week or so with my new bushes - then the physical measurent phase can begin. It will be good to have some good tabluated data on all the different combo's of stubs and control arms etc which is what I plan to do.

The reason the Hoppers guy makes the statement his kits maintain the correct Torana geometry is that it allows you to re-use all the torana stub and steering arm which everyone already has and saves the Harrop steering arm expense and in reality the difference is very small - probably not worth the $$ difference - especially if running normal offset rims.
The Hoppers kit maintains the Torana's original steering & suspension geometry but
I think it would be a bold statement to say the Correct Geometry.

M@

Edited by Toranamat69, 02 February 2006 - 01:30 PM.

[StephenSLR]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my crossmember.

Where are you located QIKSLR?

Please put your location in your signature.

When I get a move on with my Xmember it will be good to know of places in Sydney that do the work required.

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 02 February 2006 - 01:40 PM.

[LS1LX]

Marty I hope you dont plan on running those 15" simmons with the hoppers kit?

For simmons to clear Hoppers you need a 17" simmon as a minimum, a welded 2 piece 15" rim like a standard commodore rim clears but if you want simmons and hoppers kit you need 17's minimum.eg simmons 15 and 16" use the same centres the bolts hit the calipers.