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Build The Ultimate Starfire - Yes, Starfire

Started by _BRN 084_ , Feb 13 2008 09:58 PM

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#1 _BRN 084_

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 09:58 PM

Hi guys,

I'm looking at the Starfire as a serious option for my HB project, so what I wanted to throw out to all you intelligent folk out there in Torana land is this:

If you were to build the ultimate Starfire, what parts would you use, how would you build it? Carbs? EFI? Turbo? I want to know what you all think. I know many of you will say, why bother? Because I have an HB that I want to maintain rego on, and with the capacity to weight laws I'm pretty restricted. Plus, with a Starfire the car would remain all Torana, and all Holden.

So, what would you do to a Starfire? Aside from use it as a boat anchor?

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 11:26 PM

Makka and i hatched an evil plan to modify a YT head that I had....it was cracked so cut the front 2 combustion chambers off...leaving a 4 cylinder head...it needs some welding and machining to fix up the thrmostat housing area.

I would say completely do-able. :spoton:

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#3 dattoman

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 11:43 PM

Not heavy enough to be a good boat anchor
Don't know much about them
But if they are just 2/3 of a blue 6 ... shouldn't be too hard to dodge something up

Boost the tits off it and efi

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#4 rodomo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:00 AM

What is the budget?

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#5 _BRN 084_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:20 AM

Well, I'm lucky enough that in my position at work I should be able to gain some sponsorship for some of the parts - so Rodomo, go as extravagant as you like - I'm keen to hear everyone's thoughts.

I spoke with an engine builder about it a while ago, and he suggested a 60thou over bore, cut down six cylinder manifolds and a custom solid cam shaft, along with twin carbs would make for a decent motor. If you went to EFI it would be that much more interesting, plus more fuel efficient and more reliable. That's where my head is at right now. A Turbo set-up would be very cool too.

Edited by BRN 084, 14 February 2008 - 08:20 AM.

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#6 rodomo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:53 AM

Boost the tits off it and efi

This would be the go then.^

With twin carbies and so on, it would have to be A.D.R. complient as far as anti-pollution laws I would think, if it is to be engineered.

In other words, the Starfire would have to have all the Starfire pollution gear working.

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#7 FastEHHolden

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:00 AM

Thats still possible...lpg turbo could mean some of it gets taken off though.

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#8 MRLXSS

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:02 AM

Yeah, Makka was thinking about this a year or so back now. He wanted to take out the N/A 4cyl Class at summernats Horsepower heroes...

there is a link...

http://www.gmh-toran...topic=12802&hl=

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#9 Heath

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 10:22 AM

LPG Turbo, more reliable than a lot of carbie setups and cheaper than most performance EFI setups too!

I would go cut down 12 Port as well, but that's just me.

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#10 rodomo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 10:28 AM

I would go cut down 12 Port as well, but that's just me.

A Starfire head IS a cut down 12 port.

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#11 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 11:55 AM

I'll add my suggestions after I stop laughing. Mind you, I was thinking of slotting one of these in a Gemini years ago.

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#12 Heath

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:11 PM

I assumed they came with a read style head, as they were released for the UC etc, the blue motor wasn't out by then!

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#13 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:58 PM

Heath, the Starfire 4 was in the VC & VH Commodores, both with an 8 port head.

Anyway...

According to Oldn64, Holden 6's can be sleeved out to a 4" bore. He also apparently sold a head he ported to another forum member and allegedly said it would flow 600 HP! So if it really can be taken out to 4", with a stock 3" stroke crank, that should give you nearly 151 CID. Cut 'n' shut a JZED head, add a turbo and change your undies.

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#14 FastEHHolden

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 01:27 PM

Hmmm...tad oversquare :spoton:

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#15 rodomo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 01:34 PM

I'm with ya.

Edited by rodomo, 14 February 2008 - 01:35 PM.

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#16 RIM-010

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 02:23 PM

That would be nucking futs.

Tim

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#17 Heath

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 03:20 PM

According to Oldn64, Holden 6's can be sleeved out to a 4" bore. He also apparently sold a head he ported to another forum member and allegedly said it would flow 600 HP! So if it really can be taken out to 4", with a stock 3" stroke crank, that should give you nearly 151 CID. Cut 'n' shut a JZED head, add a turbo and change your undies.

Not a simple process by any means, but yes okay it is true. Siamesed sleeves... :fool:

I thought that was more like 450... but even that sounds to me like one of the ones with angled inlet ports. If you say so.

heheheheh

PS cheers for info about 8 port heads. So do you mean that the Commodore Starfires had 8 ports but the UC starfires had 6 ports? Or they all had 8 ports?

Edited by Heath, 14 February 2008 - 03:21 PM.

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#18 _revmaniac_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 03:24 PM

set of forgies in 4" and LPG turbo with loads of boost.

oversquare is no good for massive revs IIRC but with the right turbo you wont have to rev it....masses of torque...just make sure the majority of the boost comes on after the peak torque of the naturally aspirated setup...an engines maximum efficiency is at peak torque and it will not handle much boost BELOW that point as it just cant swallow it

PS for best fuel economy in ANY situation your cruising revs should be same as peak torque point

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#19 rodomo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 04:02 PM

PS cheers for info about 8 port heads. So do you mean that the Commodore Starfires had 8 ports but the UC starfires had 6 ports? Or they all had 8 ports?

ALL Starfires were 8 port.

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#20 _BRN 084_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 05:14 PM

Wow, I've never heard of that before. 4in bore! That'd be nearly 2.5L.

revmaniac - from my understanding, and oversquare engine is able to rev much higher than an undersquare. I know it's a ridiculous comparison, but F1 engine are oversquare, and look how hard they rev. With a 3in stroke and a 4in bore, I reckon you could spin it pretty freakin' hard! Especially with good pistons and rods.

Mmmmm, so much food for thought. Suck through LPG system on that engine would be pretty amazing.

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#21 lakeside

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:07 PM

A Nissan turboed SR20 or RB20 would be the go. Those starfires would weigh a ton and a 1/2.

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#22 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:17 PM

With a 3in stroke and a 4in bore, I reckon you could spin it pretty freakin' hard! Especially with good pistons and rods.

As usual, the valve train would be the limiting factor.

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#23 _82911_

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:28 PM

try this...
:bore and sleeve to 4.00"
:Cut down a massey Ferguson crank out of a "68 model, you need to turn the mains down and re index a bit but you will get 3.5" stroke out of it.
:1.00" deck plate
: 6.40" rod.
: 1.125" pin height winsor SVO pistons.
: Custom Roller cam with Chrysler roller lifters to suit sleeved lifter bores.
:Turn head around so inlet/exhaust ports are on the drivers side, this moves the head relative to the bore centreline and unshrouds the valves.
: Valves need to be throated out to accept 2.10" inlets and 1.7" exhausts, you will of course need to move the valves in the chambers to achieve these sizes.
: mill the top of the head completely flat and bolt a 1/2 aluminum plate to it through the head bolts. To this plate you will bolt all you rocker gear in it's new and revised positions.
175CU" should rev to around 8000rpm no worries at all...
If you can't make 400hp+ with this combo you did somthing wrong.

(warning) the above is not my actual thoughts, nor do i actually think it will work at all. I just wanted to join in the pissin' competition! :tease:

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#24 Com_VC

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:45 PM

I would love to do one of these one day if someone donates me one

I'd do a cut down vk efi manifold, custom turbo manifold, aftermarket ecu, coil on plug, possibly ball bearing sr20, roller rockers, probably slightly decompressed.

Imagine being beaten by a starfire lol