147 replies to this topic

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Fly how do we know for sure the VIN disk is 100% accurate and the 1433 document is not? One or both could contain errors/omissions.

ck1971.

If you look closely ^^^^^ Holden could only find 299 1971 CK Bathursts with 300 being required. The VIN Bible tells us only 299 were built. AMC magazine could only find 299 as well. So with 300 being required and Holden only being able to account for 299, some FUDGING of the figures were nessasary, hence 1433 total.



H213674 has a CK Engine Prefix (CK46874) though it is down as a GTR. H213674 holds the key #300............. (A simple input error)

Edited by FLY_AGAIN_XU-1, 05 June 2009 - 12:12 PM.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

^^^^^ Or was it because of the 20 (EARLY) June, July 1970 cars ? (LOL)...............


Look carefully..............

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

fly, i have a 8/70 9/70 9/70 and 10/70 and 3 of them cars had there original date matching diff housings in the when i got them but none of them are baffled, and are all 3.36 lsd
i have a 3/71 no baffle
but my 9/71 was baffled, so i dont think the 70 lc xu1 was baffled only seem to start in the 71 bathurst cars.
as fly as asked does anyone own a lc xu1 prior to the release of the 71 bathurst cars with a standad fitting baffled diff housing???

cheers gong

Gong you are 100% correct. No 1970 or early 1971 car recieved the baffled diff housing even though it was homologated in 1970. I bet the cars that raced at Bathurst in 1970 had baffled diff housings though. It took Holden a year for this to happen on the production variant. So you see most homologated parts were,nt required to be fitted in production, just that 200 basically indentical units be built. By Holden selling 100 cars (50%) then building the required 200 cars allowed the race teams to use the new updates. Its was all about motor racing..............

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Hey Gong, Just goes to prove the XU-1 Torana was all about racing and not you or I enjoying our Sunday drives.

Understanding the C.A.M.S. Rules allows us to understand why our cherished road going variants were built.

Every road going variant was built for a reason.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

1971

H2-2 Eligibility 200 (2/71)
1/1E 200 (3/71, 4/71)

1/2E 300 (9/71,10/71,11/71)

[S pack]

Apology accepted rat catcher, though dont take me to serious.............




G/Day Don (ck1971)
The VIN DISK is,nt 100% accurate, there are typos. Once the VIN DISK is questioned, then every LC & LJ Torana is questioned. It is quite simply the most valuable bit of information any true LC or LJ enthiusast can get there hands on. The VIN DISC does,nt lie, though there are a couple of typos.

The VIN Bible tells us that Holden built 700 LC XU-1,s in 1970.

Why ?

Under the 1970 C.A.M.S. Series Production Rules a minimum of 700 were required. 200 for Eligibility and 500 for the updates, Baffled diff housing, Baffled fuel tank, 3.08 diff ratio etc etc. The rules that applied in 1970, 1971 & 1972 were basically indentical.
 

Load of crap.

 

The minimum required number of cars was 200 for recognition and 100 for the alternative diff ratio.

Up until amendment 1/1e all modifications to the LC XU1 were via Dealer Service Letters which did not require any cars to be made and or sold.

 

If you read the August 1970 GMH press release for the LC XU1 they announced an initial production batch of 700 cars to meet immediate demand.

 

So from day one GMH planned to produce at least 700 LC XU1's. They must have had a bloody good crystal ball to know in advance they would need 300 + another 400 cars to cover the Dealer Service Letters.

[S pack]

Gong you are 100% correct. No 1970 or early 1971 car recieved the baffled diff housing even though it was homologated in 1970.

That is because the baffled diff housing was not homologated until the CK XU1. Prior to homologation GMH did not make baffled XU1 diff housings for fitment on the production line nor sell baffled diff housings through NASCO as spare parts.

[yel327]

Lots of faith also put here in the Service/Warranty report. The records are full of missing cars and lots of stuff-ups but only on the data with human entry.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

 

 

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

[S pack]

Yeah it's a Dealer Service Letter not an amendment to the C.O.D . Under 'Compliance' a Service letter or bulletin applies in the second instance .

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Same thing ! ! ! In the first instance, under " Recognition " GMH produced a total of 400 6/70 ( 20 ) and 8/70 ( 380 ) LC XU-1,s prior to the release of any Dealer Service Letters or Bulletins in September 1970. From September 1970 they produced a further 300 9/70 and 10/70 LC XU-1,s completing the homologation process.

[yel327]

The cars aren't painted on the assembly line, they were painted in the body plant. Each booth in each body plant would have a gun for each colour. The cars didn't enter the assembly plant in the order they existed the body plant.

 

More than likely the photos you've seen are from Dandenong assembly, and if it was anything like Pagewood the LC's were completely painted at Elizabeth (or Acacia Ridge for Pagewood) and simply put together mechanically at Dandenong and Pagewood.

 

Having said that you do get some groupings by body numbers at plants that didn't use the PSN as the body number, of paint colours and/or sometimes trim colours.

[yel327]

The bulk of any cars were stock orders when they went into the schedule, so GMH would have painted whatever colours they thought they could sell. Not sure how that would have translated into numbers of each colour on the applicable colour chart, except the Group II and Group III metallics will be rarer.

Very few cars are actual retail orders, and most Group III metallic are retail orders hence why Group III metallic are so rare.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

That is because the baffled diff housing was not homologated until the CK XU1. Prior to homologation GMH did not make baffled XU1 diff housings for fitment on the production line nor sell baffled diff housings through NASCO as spare parts.

 

 

Under homologation 1/2E of the CK XU-1 there is no reference to the homologation of a baffled diff housing. The CK XU-1 was simply the first XU-1 factory fitted with one. Many also assume that the 300 CK,s were responsible for the homologation of the XH ( Mark I, LC ) cam and the 5H needles, however the CK was only the first XU-1 factory fitted with these components. The 200 cars responsible for allowing and completing these components were in fact the 200 3/71 & 4/71 LC XU-1,s under homologation 1/1E

 

 

There is also no reference to a baffled diff housing under homologation 1/1E

 

The 200 2/71 LC XU-1,s took care of Eligibility, the 200 3/71 & 4/71 LC XU-1,s took care of homologation 1/1E and the 300 9/71, 10/71 & 11/71 CK.s took care of homologation 1/2E.

[S pack]

I agree the 300 CK XU1's did not homologate the XH camshaft.

Any XU1 built from SOP to the end of June 1971 could have been responsible for homologating the XH camshaft as it was claimed that in excess of 200 camshafts had been fitted to XU1 vehicles. The camshafts were Dealer fitted not factory fitted.

 

Looking at the C.O.D for the LC XU1 there is no reference to the differential housing, what it is made of and how it is constructed, so it appears that installing baffled diff housings may not have required Homologation. The baffles did not offer a mechanical advantage that would increase the power output or improve the handling or braking of the vehicle so probably a non issue other than addressing a reliability issue.

 

200 2/71 cars for eligibility?  

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

No where does it state that camshafts are required to be fitted in production or dealer fitted. The 1970 COD tells me differently and I am sure you can look up " Eligibility " in the dictionary or in the C.A.M.S. Rules.

[S pack]

In the Fiv XU1 book.page 137, the letter from J.P Felice to Mr. D.K Thompson (Secretary - General, C.A.M.S) dated July 23, 1971 advising that in excess of 200 units of the Torana XU1 have now been fitted with camshaft Part No. 2822075 and Carb needles 5H.

 

Quote: "In view of this we wish to make application for the acceptance of the above mentioned components in series production modifications."

 

The C.O.D does not record the camshaft timing figures however the lobe dimensions are recorded. Therefore to use a camshaft with different lobe dimensions in competition would require the specifications of the C.O.D be amended.

 

GM-H did this by releasing the new camshaft as a service package (via the DSL dated March 1st 1971) for the Dealers to fit to existing XU1's.

Whether in excess of 200 camshafts were actually fitted to existing XU1's or even sold by Nasco we will probably never know.

[S pack]

As I was saying the other day.

In August 1970 GM-H announced the LC GTR XU1 and an initial production batch of 700 cars with further production if demand warranted..

300 cars (200 with 3.36:1 diff + 100 with alternative ratio) to satisfy C.A.M.S homologation (and customer demand) + a further 400 cars to satisfy customer demand for the hotter version of the LC GTR. Service letters did not require the production of cars to satisfy C.A.M.S.

Edited by S pack, 09 April 2016 - 09:32 AM.