Does anyone have plans for either full steel or half alloy bolt in roll cages to suit aa uc torana?
uc lh lx roll cage
Started by
_BlownUC202_
, Apr 02 2010 11:16 PM
29 replies to this topic
#2
Heath
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:30 AM
Not much point in having a bolted in full cage mate.
Anyway, both have been made but most of them one-off's I'd suggest. I'm sure there are plenty of places who would be willing to do either
Anyway, both have been made but most of them one-off's I'd suggest. I'm sure there are plenty of places who would be willing to do either
#3
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:34 AM
I dont think you are going to find plans.
Any competent exhaust shop will be able to bend up a cage.
Check with the WA authorities. They should be able to give you a spec sheet on the requirements. [thickness of material, metalurgy, mounting ect]
Any competent exhaust shop will be able to bend up a cage.
Check with the WA authorities. They should be able to give you a spec sheet on the requirements. [thickness of material, metalurgy, mounting ect]
#4
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:58 AM
Are we talking a real roll cage, or just a show one? CAMS manual has the current requirements.
CAMS one will look something like:
If plated to international standard, then bolt in complies with the regs.
CAMS one will look something like:
If plated to international standard, then bolt in complies with the regs.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 03 April 2010 - 10:01 AM.
#5
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 10:08 AM
andrews race cars sell andra/cams spec cages bent up off a cad program that come in kit form.they are weld in
http://www.andrewsra...ategory_21.html
http://www.andrewsra...ategory_21.html
#6
_BlownUC202_
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:31 AM
id rather put a bolt in alloy half cage its more for looks and i wanna do it myself my mate has a bender and tig so gonna just use that. Just wanted to know it anyone had like plans with lenght of each straight and angles etc. I like to do every thing on my car myself rather than just pay someone to do it. Im a diesel fitter by trade so its not that hard.
#7
Statler
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:43 AM
Bend up a piece of welding wire & use as a template.
You might need some heat to get the 2 tight loop bends, if using alloy.
You might need some heat to get the 2 tight loop bends, if using alloy.
#8
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:18 PM
If you going to build a cage then you may as well build one that is ANDRA and/or CAMS approved. It is my understanding that an alloy cage does not meet either standard.
You can not register a 6 point cage in WA for daily road use. It is my understanding that you can register a four point cage with a removable 6 point section that meets the ANDRA regulations.
You can not register a 6 point cage in WA for daily road use. It is my understanding that you can register a four point cage with a removable 6 point section that meets the ANDRA regulations.
#9
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:41 PM
Yella.. that yellow cage looks good, whos car is that? any more photos?
With the off the shelf alloy cages, I dont think ive seen any that have been correctly installed to the parcel shelf, usually they are the wrong sides.
With the off the shelf alloy cages, I dont think ive seen any that have been correctly installed to the parcel shelf, usually they are the wrong sides.
#10
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:04 PM
Leigh, that's my other car.
You can use alloy ones for general road use, but I suppose you have to ask yourself if they really serve a purpose. Most of the period Torana roll cages had bugger all cross bracing, so I wonder how much they would really do in an accident, other than provide confidence at all other times.
You need triangles, triangles are strong, and cannot be deformed, unless you try really really hard that is. Rectangles rack (don't hold their shape).
I wanted to go straight through to a bar between the wheel arches. Lots of shape, lots of strength in that bit, parcel shelf is too flat, with grooves in it just to give it enough strenth for the panel to stay straight. So this is next best solution, I still have the bar in the boot between the wheel arches, but the back stays land just above the wheel arches (still lots of shape and 'uber' strong).
For a registered cage you can't use alloy any more, unless engineered of course. Must be seemless tube (there are two permissable types) and chrome moly (uber expensive). The seemless steel isn't exactly cheap either, think I paid something like $1500 or maybe a bit more in just seemless pipe alone.
Pics are before fire. Note to self, don't weld on a car with masking still attached. No major damage, just a mess to clean up, that could have been spent doing other stuff.
I still have the cardboard template for the main hoop that I could trace onto paper for you, but meh, it's prolly easier if you stick all your own bits of cardboard together and make your own profile at the 'B' pillar.
The cage is designed to be able to be removed from the car with only two cuts, one vertical cut down the middel of each of the side intrusion bars.
In the raw, prior to painting.
In bits painted.
Prior to welding in the side intrusion bars.
Just an interesting shot.
We only templated the main hoop. The rest we just sort of worked out as we went. Hard to explain, and not very useful I know, but you just do it. Hardest part is the front legs, as you need to bend it all in reverse. Ties your brain in big big knots.
You can use alloy ones for general road use, but I suppose you have to ask yourself if they really serve a purpose. Most of the period Torana roll cages had bugger all cross bracing, so I wonder how much they would really do in an accident, other than provide confidence at all other times.
You need triangles, triangles are strong, and cannot be deformed, unless you try really really hard that is. Rectangles rack (don't hold their shape).
I wanted to go straight through to a bar between the wheel arches. Lots of shape, lots of strength in that bit, parcel shelf is too flat, with grooves in it just to give it enough strenth for the panel to stay straight. So this is next best solution, I still have the bar in the boot between the wheel arches, but the back stays land just above the wheel arches (still lots of shape and 'uber' strong).
For a registered cage you can't use alloy any more, unless engineered of course. Must be seemless tube (there are two permissable types) and chrome moly (uber expensive). The seemless steel isn't exactly cheap either, think I paid something like $1500 or maybe a bit more in just seemless pipe alone.
Pics are before fire. Note to self, don't weld on a car with masking still attached. No major damage, just a mess to clean up, that could have been spent doing other stuff.
I still have the cardboard template for the main hoop that I could trace onto paper for you, but meh, it's prolly easier if you stick all your own bits of cardboard together and make your own profile at the 'B' pillar.
The cage is designed to be able to be removed from the car with only two cuts, one vertical cut down the middel of each of the side intrusion bars.
In the raw, prior to painting.
In bits painted.
Prior to welding in the side intrusion bars.
Just an interesting shot.
We only templated the main hoop. The rest we just sort of worked out as we went. Hard to explain, and not very useful I know, but you just do it. Hardest part is the front legs, as you need to bend it all in reverse. Ties your brain in big big knots.
#11
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:18 PM
Oh, forgot to mention, Bond Roll Cages in Sydney still do Torana Roll Cages. It is the same as the originals, with the flimsy metal straps that join em, and no cross bracing. Pretty sure they'll make it in whatever you want. From memory they quoted about $1,700 in the regulatory required steel, you have to add your bracing, etc for competition.
ANDRA and CAMS roll cage regs are very different, so make sure you make it for whatever regs you are after, although from what I've seen, CAMS ones are stricter. Have you seen the NASCAR roll bars? Full bars around the head, with a shit load of padding and a slot for the drivers helmet!!! Weird, talk about kid gloves!!!
Anyways, I digress.
Test fit of bits and pieces, including concealed fixing rear spoiler (I had to fix the concealed fixings).
And the pic I was actually looking for, the bar in the boot. International regs are a fully welded strengthening plate, which you then bolt the sole plate from the cage through. Think strengthening plate is 1500mm2 min.
ANDRA and CAMS roll cage regs are very different, so make sure you make it for whatever regs you are after, although from what I've seen, CAMS ones are stricter. Have you seen the NASCAR roll bars? Full bars around the head, with a shit load of padding and a slot for the drivers helmet!!! Weird, talk about kid gloves!!!
Anyways, I digress.
Test fit of bits and pieces, including concealed fixing rear spoiler (I had to fix the concealed fixings).
And the pic I was actually looking for, the bar in the boot. International regs are a fully welded strengthening plate, which you then bolt the sole plate from the cage through. Think strengthening plate is 1500mm2 min.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 03 April 2010 - 09:18 PM.
#12
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:48 PM
This is what drove the location/config of the intrusion bars, need to keep original interior and door cards for improved production.
Could benefit with a bar here (red bar, had to draw the side intrusions on as well in this one). And I may still do that yet. There are only two suppliers of this in Australia, and they are both brothers, but different companies.
Could benefit with a bar here (red bar, had to draw the side intrusions on as well in this one). And I may still do that yet. There are only two suppliers of this in Australia, and they are both brothers, but different companies.
#13
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 10:24 PM
Excellent pat, thanks for that mate.
#14
_BlownOutlaw_
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Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:55 PM
Yeh I wouldn't use a alloy cage.
Thanks for the photos Yella, looks good. Though I think its a bit silly when a door handle must govern where a bar is located, but not your fault.
I will make a few calls regarding the legallities.
Thanks for the photos Yella, looks good. Though I think its a bit silly when a door handle must govern where a bar is located, but not your fault.
I will make a few calls regarding the legallities.
#15
Heath
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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:53 PM
I can understand cages that are just for the look, but I do have a good little chuckle whenever I see a rollcage bolted onto the parcel shelf.
#16
rodomo
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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:37 PM
Does anyone have plans for either full steel or half alloy bolt in roll cages to suit aa uc torana?
This was sold to me to suit LH,LX,UC 4 door though I have never fitted it.
It is steel, the pipe wall thickness is 3.5mm and the diameter is 42.5mm
The plates are 6mm thick and all the holes are 12mm.
If I remember tomorrow, I'll see how the main hoop fits in a hatch shell and that should confirm if it is Torana.
Edited by rodomo, 04 April 2010 - 10:40 PM.
#17
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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:57 PM
^ Those are the bar connecting fittings that I don't like. Mine are fully welded tube, into a smaller telescoping tube section, with crush tubes welded in where the hole goes through. Should offer a bit more protection and provide a rigid joint. Hope I never have to find out.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 05 April 2010 - 06:58 PM.
#18
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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:19 PM
Yella Slur so yours is all welded in? Ive built roll cages before but for my demolision derby car but they are full cages with plate on the floor sides and roof and require the roof to be cut off to fit. I dont wanna have to cut my roof off my torana and i wanna be able to remove it if i have to at some stage.
#19
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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:04 PM
That was the original basis for compliance!I can understand cages that are just for the look, but I do have a good little chuckle whenever I see a rollcage bolted onto the parcel shelf.
Do you chuckle when you see 13" rims on a torana also?
#20
Heath
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:54 AM
What, is that where the authorities wanted you to bolt it to in the first place?
You see the kinda thing on drag cars where the cages go straight through the parcel shelf down to the back and get tagged onto the fabricated chassis rails or what have you, but drag cages aren't real cages anyway. The whole bolting to the parcel shelf thing, particularly to the middle of the parcel shelf, just seems to me as an imitation of that, and such a silly choice from an engineering standpoint. It's a big flat surface made out of panel steel with a few formations in it to stop it popping back and forth when you put a box of tissues on it and go over bumps LOL, and it's nowhere near any suspension or chassis components - hey look maybe it is still very good to have in the case of a rollover, I haven't tested one so maybe I shouldn't judge, but even without testing the effectiveness of that style of setup, it's easy to think of alternatives that would be a lot more effective.
Man someone can make a rollcage out of exhaust piping if they want, I really don't give a shit, that's their right, but in turn I should have a right to laugh at it for its sillyness. And if someone offered me my wheels in 14" for $50 (which is what I paid for them) I would snap them up without a doubt. But when you're 14 with next to no money and you want shiny things for your car and someone offers them to you cheaply, you take them. If someone had offered me a cage that bolts to the parcel shelf for $100 the day I bought those wheels, I would have bought that too! In fact I'd probably still buy one today for that price, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's a lousy design.
Sorry for offending
You see the kinda thing on drag cars where the cages go straight through the parcel shelf down to the back and get tagged onto the fabricated chassis rails or what have you, but drag cages aren't real cages anyway. The whole bolting to the parcel shelf thing, particularly to the middle of the parcel shelf, just seems to me as an imitation of that, and such a silly choice from an engineering standpoint. It's a big flat surface made out of panel steel with a few formations in it to stop it popping back and forth when you put a box of tissues on it and go over bumps LOL, and it's nowhere near any suspension or chassis components - hey look maybe it is still very good to have in the case of a rollover, I haven't tested one so maybe I shouldn't judge, but even without testing the effectiveness of that style of setup, it's easy to think of alternatives that would be a lot more effective.
Man someone can make a rollcage out of exhaust piping if they want, I really don't give a shit, that's their right, but in turn I should have a right to laugh at it for its sillyness. And if someone offered me my wheels in 14" for $50 (which is what I paid for them) I would snap them up without a doubt. But when you're 14 with next to no money and you want shiny things for your car and someone offers them to you cheaply, you take them. If someone had offered me a cage that bolts to the parcel shelf for $100 the day I bought those wheels, I would have bought that too! In fact I'd probably still buy one today for that price, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's a lousy design.
Sorry for offending
#21
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:03 AM
Sorry for the delayed response.Yella Slur so yours is all welded in? Ive built roll cages before but for my demolision derby car but they are full cages with plate on the floor sides and roof and require the roof to be cut off to fit. I dont wanna have to cut my roof off my torana and i wanna be able to remove it if i have to at some stage.
My cage as 15000mm2 plates welded to the car. The roll cage then has 12000mm2 plates welded to the legs. The two are bolted together with 3xM10 bolts as per the CAMS International Regs. I agree, most people weld their cages in, but I wanted a cage that I can remove from the car if I ever want to. I can remove that whole cage from the car with only two cuts of the side intrusion bars.
With regard to cutting the roof off, most people cut holes in the floor push the main hoop up, then weld 10mm steel plates under them. I wasn't interested in that at the time, but then again, that was pre-rotiserrie.
Hope that helps.
#22
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:20 AM
but drag cages aren't real cages anyway.
would you like to explain why drag cars dont have REAL rollcages? [sarcasm]i'm sure the drag racing community would love to hear your thoughts[/sarcasm]
Edited by moot, 01 May 2010 - 10:21 AM.
#23
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:34 AM
^ just built to a different set of rules. Drag cages are dramatically different to circuit car cages, although similar in some areas. Have a look at the latest NASCAR cages, they are different again, particularly with the amount of metal around the driver.
#24
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:39 AM
i understand this,but arent they all still real roll cages?
my mates torana has a funny car style cage in it,with the horse shoe pipes over the driver. probably the safest cage you could get....
my mates torana has a funny car style cage in it,with the horse shoe pipes over the driver. probably the safest cage you could get....
#25
_BlownUC202_
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:04 PM
Well i borrowed my mates tube bender today and used the left over lenghts of tube form my derby car cage and bent up a main hoop and 2 bars from the hoop back to the parcel shelf. Im going to make another bar that bolts from wheel arch to wheel arch in the boot and have two bars welded coming up to plates that bolt up on the underside of the parcel shelf where the 2 for the car bolt up. To join the 2 back bars to the main hoop im going to make tube sleeves with bolts so its easy to fit and remove. I ran out of tube but should have some more in a few weeks so ill then make the front bars. Im thinking of mounting the main hoop by using the existing seatbelt bolt holes. I will take some pics and post them on here soon.
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