Am re-building my steering column and have dissasembled it. While going to remove the shaft I found that it slipped straight out without me having to remove the circlip that retains the upper bearing. I guess that this means the ignition housing casting has somehow been damaged. Some sort of retaining lugs must have worn or snapped off which hold the bearing in. So the questions are: 1. is there an easy way to retain the upper bearing. I have talked to another member who has machined a grove in to the casting and uses wire to retain the bearing. I have read somewhere people suggest locktight. 2. What are the consequences if i just put in a new bearing and re-assemble the column? Will the steering wheel want to "pull away" from the casting because of the ability of the lower flexible joint to seperate?
The whole design of this column seems strange as the only thing that keeps the steering shaft in place seems to be a flexible coupling and some lugs in a casting that seem to shear off easily.
I dont believe you can buy a new housing so should i be looking at a more robust engineering solution such as others have done?
Any comments welcome.....
Ignition housing (coffee pot?)
Started by
_DrFegg_
, Oct 17 2010 03:00 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
dattoman
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Posted 17 October 2010 - 04:03 PM
#3
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:14 PM
Those flimsy lugs are made that way for safety, in case of accident they brake away when your chest/face hits steering wheel. Letting the colum collapse.
The steering shaft its self is made in 2 peices and held together by plastic lugs, so it to can collapse on impact, I suspect that these plastic lugs are broken causing your issue.
Most get broken because of people hit the steering shaft with a hammer getting the steering wheel off instead of using a puller.
The steering shaft its self is made in 2 peices and held together by plastic lugs, so it to can collapse on impact, I suspect that these plastic lugs are broken causing your issue.
Most get broken because of people hit the steering shaft with a hammer getting the steering wheel off instead of using a puller.
#4
_DrFegg_
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Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:15 PM
No, those pins in the 2 piece shaft are intact, that is not the issue. The issue is the lugs inside the cast coffee pot which retain the upper bearing. Im thinking of drilling a hole either side of the bearing so i can insert two threaded hex nuts, retaining the bearing. To do this i will probably have to drill via(through) the outside of the casting as I cannot get direct drilling access to the side of the bearing housing. If i pick the right spot the hole should be fairly hidden as it will be on the underside of the column.Those flimsy lugs are made that way for safety, in case of accident they brake away when your chest/face hits steering wheel. Letting the colum collapse.
The steering shaft its self is made in 2 peices and held together by plastic lugs, so it to can collapse on impact, I suspect that these plastic lugs are broken causing your issue.
Most get broken because of people hit the steering shaft with a hammer getting the steering wheel off instead of using a puller.
Any thoughts ?
#5
View GaragePosted 19 October 2010 - 06:47 PM
It doesn't need to hold a lot of force, any basic retaining method (such as the chisel mentioned in the thread above) should be adequate. Basically whatever you can come up with will work fine as long as it holds the bearing in place.
#6
_DrFegg_
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Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:43 PM
Yeah the chisel method confuses me a bit. The top of the bearing has a lip that sits over (covers) the edge of the casting . Pretty much stops you from getting a chisel at it.....It doesn't need to hold a lot of force, any basic retaining method (such as the chisel mentioned in the thread above) should be adequate. Basically whatever you can come up with will work fine as long as it holds the bearing in place.
Cant see that working.
Actually whatever fixing you use has to take more force than the pins lower down on the central shaft, otherwise the shaft wont collapse in an impact, giving you a faceful of steering wheel....
Edited by DrFegg, 19 October 2010 - 07:46 PM.
#7
Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:21 PM
You get a face full of steering wheel regardless, the column collapses so that the impact at the front of the vehicle doesn't drive the column back toward you. The concave style steering wheels are designed so that you only hit the rim, not something more damaging.
edit: actually the above isn't quite true, the outside of the column (the metal perforated part under the plastic cover) will collapse a bit too if you hit the steering wheel hard, and thus the whole coffee pot and bearing assembly will move down/forward to (or usually just bend a little sideways!)
The column is retained above the top bearing by the circlip, which in turn cannot slip down due to the way it sits in the housing. Retaining the bearing is simply so that you don't accidentally pull the column up/back towards yourself. I only have the parts manual here at present and it doesn't show it properly, but I thought that the bearing sat full inside the casting and the casting was burred at the edges to retain it - perhaps you have a slightly different bearing? Maybe someone else can confirm or I will go take a look at one tomorrow for you and take a photo.
edit: actually the above isn't quite true, the outside of the column (the metal perforated part under the plastic cover) will collapse a bit too if you hit the steering wheel hard, and thus the whole coffee pot and bearing assembly will move down/forward to (or usually just bend a little sideways!)
The column is retained above the top bearing by the circlip, which in turn cannot slip down due to the way it sits in the housing. Retaining the bearing is simply so that you don't accidentally pull the column up/back towards yourself. I only have the parts manual here at present and it doesn't show it properly, but I thought that the bearing sat full inside the casting and the casting was burred at the edges to retain it - perhaps you have a slightly different bearing? Maybe someone else can confirm or I will go take a look at one tomorrow for you and take a photo.
Edited by 76lxhatch, 19 October 2010 - 08:23 PM.
#8
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:58 AM
I would put some pin punch marks inside where the bearing sits then some lock tight and tap the bearing back in. Works for other more stressed bearing. As I have never removed one of these bearings I can give no insight as to how they are retained in there bore. but interested to find out.
#9
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 20 October 2010 - 01:15 AM
Just looked at a manual, the bearing seem to be retained only by the washer that sits under the spring. to stop the steering shaft from pulling up there seems to be a retaining ring around the shaft that pulls up to the base of the coffee pot. I suspect this is missing on yours letting the shaft move up.
#10
Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:55 AM
The retaining ring on top of the bearing does the opposite, it stops the column shaft from falling down. The shape of the column shaft stops it from coming up any further through the bearing, and the bearing itself is supposed to be retained in the housing.Just looked at a manual, the bearing seem to be retained only by the washer that sits under the spring. to stop the steering shaft from pulling up there seems to be a retaining ring around the shaft that pulls up to the base of the coffee pot. I suspect this is missing on yours letting the shaft move up.
DrFegg you're right about the lip on the bearing, I must have been thinking of a different vehicle. However, I think you could still burr the housing prior to pushing the bearing into place so its a very snug fit, or perhaps use some sort of loctite type compound to glue it in place. It only has to stop the occasional pull on the steering wheel from lifting the internal column assembly.
#11
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 20 October 2010 - 08:09 PM
that sure does look like a press in retaining ring around the top of the bearing, shouldnt be hard to have a machine shop whip one up if your not keen on other methods to retain it
#12
_2ELCS_
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Posted 20 October 2010 - 09:01 PM
Underneath that bearing there is a round wire circlip that stops the steering shaft from pulling upwards. If you can pull the shaft up through the coffee pot either the bottom circlip has gone walkabout or the centre has pulled out of the top bearing in which case the plastic pins are broken.
They look like there in tact,they are in fact injection moulded,there is a groove around the inner shaft that is filled with it and the pins stick out either side.
When you knock the top bearing out you break the top out of the coffee pot casting,there is no way around it.
When you replace the bearing just use Locktite or some thing similar and try to burr the top of the coffee pot over for a bit extra strength but go easy they a very fragile.
I hope all that makes sense??
They look like there in tact,they are in fact injection moulded,there is a groove around the inner shaft that is filled with it and the pins stick out either side.
When you knock the top bearing out you break the top out of the coffee pot casting,there is no way around it.
When you replace the bearing just use Locktite or some thing similar and try to burr the top of the coffee pot over for a bit extra strength but go easy they a very fragile.
I hope all that makes sense??
#13
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:34 PM
I need to replace the Upper Bearing in the Honeypot on the LX,are these available from" Rare Spares" or somewhere??,anyone got a part number??.
There was a guy selling them on Ebay and had them listed as for early commodore but couldnt tell me if they were the same as Torana ones? so I didnt buy one.........
EDIT: is this the right one? http://cgi.ebay.com....=item3a5fba2528
There was a guy selling them on Ebay and had them listed as for early commodore but couldnt tell me if they were the same as Torana ones? so I didnt buy one.........
EDIT: is this the right one? http://cgi.ebay.com....=item3a5fba2528
Edited by 76S.L.R, 21 October 2010 - 09:36 PM.
#14
_2ELCS_
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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:03 PM
That bearing lookes like the right one,I think there all the same, but im not sure, damn expensive though,there only crap.
Some time ago Rodomo did a re build thread on this very subject, he found a re placement bearing at a fraction of the cost,it maybe worth your while to have a look back through the threads or he may be kind enough to point you in the right direction.
Hope this helps.
Some time ago Rodomo did a re build thread on this very subject, he found a re placement bearing at a fraction of the cost,it maybe worth your while to have a look back through the threads or he may be kind enough to point you in the right direction.
Hope this helps.
#15
Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:13 PM
I think that thread was about replacing the lower bearing, but I'm sure there must be something around that will fit the upper
#16
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