27 replies to this topic

[Tyre biter]

Some might remember from my build thread that I got my hatch in pieces and some of the supposedly good bits included a fabricated and adjustable rear axle trailing arms; thread http://www.gmh-toran...__fromsearch__1 refers.

Today I dug them out of my lean-to I built several months back so I could store my parts, and here is what I have;


One of the pair of trailing arms with one of each end's pair of metal sleeves fitted.


The sleeved ends - sleeves removed and inside shown. Some sort of bush with circlip retainer is inside.


The nylon bushed end with a fixed metal sleeve inside.

Disregard the black and silver colouring - I began to rub away a little bit of surface corrosion.

A few questions arising from folks who have used these sort of trailing arms;
1. Does the (right hand) end with the existing bush attach to the body as I anticipate, or the axle? Just that it seems to be a tad wide for the boxed body end.

2. Assuming I have it right, it seems the metal sleeved end negates the need for the diff to have a bush fitted?

3. Does anyone know what brand they are as there is nothing on them to indicate the same - they don't appear to be MacDonald Brothers nor Whiteline units bit otherwise I am lost as to their origin? All partts are metal as opposed to alloy if that helps identify the units. And nope, I can't ask the former owner (formerly referred to as 'tosso') as he is impossible to get in touch with, and he cannot be relied upon to tell the truth about anything with this car - oh, and he seems a tad thick as well...

Thanks in advance for any advice and cheers, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 12 January 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[Tyre biter]

Thanks Evil - makes sense.

Bomber - your ubiquitous short and snappy one liners again leave me only half enlightened...
Genuine question regarding your post as to movement or lack thereof - accepting Evil's POV the metal sleeved ends attach tot he rear axle; they appear to be able to turn around the bolt/s securing the same and the bush is carried inside the end - between the sleeve and the bondy of the arm end.

Just so I understand your concern - how do you see the movement being restricted exactly?
I ask because the former owner (tosso) had all sorts of plans for a custom street/drag car (locked 9" diff as an example) and so I am now wondering if these trailing arms are more suited to that sort of application.
Essentially, what have I missed/not considered?

Cheers, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 12 January 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[76lxhatch]

I don't see the problem, if those bushes (would be nice if they were proper rod ends, maybe they even are?) have any give at all they will probably twist further with less resistance than any full sized bush. It probably won't last as long, but it looks fine from what I can see. Its a bit strange that the eye of the arm appears to shroud the entire sleeve - hopefully they stick out a bit to give clearance, you could always trim them a bit if not.

This is a rod end version but same basic thing, its completely solid longitudinally but provides more twisting movement (we don't want sideways movement at all) than any bush:



If in good condition and they clear OK I'd definitely use them. I'd put the eye ends onto the car and the bushes at the diff end.

[S pack]

G/day Craig

The bushes with the metal sleeves (the ends that attach to the body mountings) at the left hand end of the arms in your pics. Are they fairly solid or does the metal inner sleeve of the bush spin freely like a needle roller bearing?

Cheers
Dave.

[Tyre biter]

Thanks for all of your interest and advice - much appreciated.

Bomber, your account seemed to me to hold water - sufficiently so that I went and visited a local suspension store just now to discuss the same. I learned the enclosed end contains a 'spherical bush' or something like that. Essentially it does allow some 'flex' as you alluded was needed, but not enough in a real word (road) environment - better suited to track work I was told. Also advised that with road use the bush only needs to wear a poofteenth before it becomes noisey and the ride is also pretty harsh - significant NVH.

The advice fromt he suspension store was not to fit them to a road car unless I was prepared to put up with the harshness and noise. Plan B is now in play and I'll clean up the original trailing arms including replacing the bushes. I'll also clean up the fabricated arms and attempt to sell them off to someone looking for more of a track application item.

Dave in answer to your question - the two halves of the sleeves lay hard up against the centre sleeve contained inside the bush and like lx76hatch suggests, they also protrude outside the housing. I reckon they aren't meant to turn once bolted up - the fit is very tight - I think the the bolt is supposed to turn inside the sleeves if you get my meaning?

Thanks again to all and cheers, TB

[ls2lxhatch]

The spherical bush/bearing is basically the bush/bearing out of a rod end. Once bolted up the inner bearing will rotate and swivel.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 13 January 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[76lxhatch]

the two halves of the sleeves lay hard up against the centre sleeve contained inside the bush and like lx76hatch suggests, they also protrude outside the housing. I reckon they aren't meant to turn once bolted up - the fit is very tight - I think the the bolt is supposed to turn inside the sleeves if you get my meaning?

The bolt and the sleeves should be locked tight and will not move at all, the spherical bearing (what I call a rod end above) as ls2lxhatch says both twists and turns (although it may be a little stiff to move easily by hand). These joints have more movement than bushes and will not be a limiting factor at all. The only concern is harshness for street use, but I haven't found it to be anything noticeable on the top arms.

[myss427]

_{My top arms have the spherical bush thatn is shown by LS2LXhatch (graphite impreganated), and after 5000km's no noise and lots of hard driving. Also i needed a parnard bar to top sideways movement, was minimal but you could feel it.}

[Tyre biter]

Back to Plan A it seems...

I put the upper trailing arm into a vice, inserted the sleeves and stuck a screwdriver through the same. It moves just as 76lxhatch suggested it would and the range of movement was suprising, as was how fairly easily it moved. So clearly the trailing arms contain a spherical bush/bearing as depicted in LS2LXhatch's post.

I am also thinking if they are good enough for myss427's car then they ought to be sufficient for mine - the only question I have is did you need a panhard rod because of this type of trailing arm, or was there another reason behind it (likely due to the hp/torque that monster of your's puts out perhaps)?

So pending advice regarding the panhard rod I reckon I have nothing to loose by sticking them in and worse case scenario being if I don't like the NVH or the bushes flog-out quickly, then I merely dig out the OEM trailing arms and take up Plan B - no biggie really.

Again, thanks to all for your help.

Cheers, TB

[76lxhatch]

the only question I have is did you need a panhard rod because of this type of trailing arm

Mine has the spherical ends in the top arms (only) and doesn't need any further lateral location - of course the triangulated four link isn't a perfect design but there is about as little movement as you're going to get. The rod ends wouldn't cause extra movement, in fact they should reduce it due to there being less bushes to deflect and alter the arm length.

I reckon I have nothing to loose by sticking them in and worse case scenario being if I don't like the NVH or the bushes flog-out quickly

My comment about the bushes not lasting as long was made when we thought the small ends were bushes. The range of motion of the rod ends should look after the remaining bushes at the other end better. The only drawback is the NVH as far as I see it.

[Tyre biter]

Bomber - I am hearing you - learning heaps and like you, I wasn't aware the ends had spherical bushes that swivelled either - heck I'd never heard of let alone seen a spherical bush before - the ends seemed fixed to me and not till the above posts did I think to stick a rod in there and attempt t move them about.

76lxhatch - Thanks; it's all sounding better by the minute.
Stupid question time - yep another one...
When you say; "I'd put the eye ends onto the car and the bushes at the diff end."
Do you mean the ones at left with the spherical ends, or the ones at right (nylon bush end on lower trailing arm and the forked end of the upper trailing arm that encompases the bush carried in the top side of the diff housing)?


Cheers, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 13 January 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[355LX]

They are made by a company called Tubular Suspension Systems (TSS) in Sydney. They have a spherical ball setup at both the diff ends (for upper and lower).

I have a set of the lowers in my hatch and the machined spacers were not 100% and I had to take a little more off them, and even now one of them is a little bit noisy. There is nothing wrong with them but imho there are possibly better units out there.

Hope that helps.

Dave

[S pack]

Bomber - I am hearing you - learning heaps and like you, I wasn't aware the ends had spherical bushes that swivelled either - heck I'd never heard of let alone seen a spherical bush before - the ends seemed fixed to me and not till the above posts did I think to stick a rod in there and attempt t move them about.

76lxhatch - Thanks; it's all sounding better by the minute.
Stupid question time - yep another one...
When you say; "I'd put the eye ends onto the car and the bushes at the diff end."
Do you mean the ones at left with the spherical ends, or the ones at right (nylon bush end on lower trailing arm and the forked end of the upper trailing arm that encompases the bush carried in the top side of the diff housing)?


Cheers, TB

Put the spherical bearing ends (at left in pic) to the body mounts and the urethane bush and the fork ends to the differential housing.

[Tyre biter]

Dave (355LX) thanks - I got in touch with James at TSS and you are spot on - it is one of their's.
Dave (S pack) thanks for your advice.
Cheers, TB

[Tyre biter]

Righto then, next question; How does one attach the sway bar to these tubular trailing arms exactly?
Just there is no holes in the lower arms as there is with the OEM items, and so do I drill into them or mount them otherwise?
Cheers, TB