103 replies to this topic

[LXdamo]

Gday SLR goat-the oil pick up came with the sump.I had to have the pan rails modified as well to clear the conrods.

                         The oil pipe in the vally evens out the oil flow between lifter galleries and feeds more oil to that mains bearing underneath it.Just a cheap insurance policy really

 

Nicko - The alternator bracket is a Bullet cylinder head's product.

            I think i'll just leave the manifold as it is. Do you find that the manifold gets dirty easily?

[LXdamo]

Well finally the engine is home.

Its all screwed together and ready to go on the dyno.Just need to get some custom pipes made up.

Gearbox is on its way to Adelaide as well.Picked up a TKO 600 5 speed for it.

so when its all dummied up in the car,i can send it off to have the pipes made.

Getting closer all the time,but the waiting is killing me!

Ended up selling the Group A manifold,so that will inject some more funds into the project.

Anyway, a few pics after the shed had a bit of a clean

 

 

[LXdamo]

Bits have been turning up lately.

My gearbox has turned up.

 

Its a tremec TKO 600,brass button clutch,lightend flywheel and a quatermaster hydraulic thrust bearing.hopefully it should do the trick!

I decided after getting rid of my twin throttle body manifold i would put a new front end in the car.

Went over to mexico and paid a visit to the rod shop and bought an IFS set up.Got the wilwood brake stuff as well.

 

So i put it in on the weekend and there are a few issues with it.The rod shop have been helpful and we are working through the issues.I went to get new wheelnuts from the local speedshop.I picked up the nuts and went to fit them and they all wobbled on the threads.all of then are not drilled central to the outside of the shank.Grrr after a quick phone call,they are going to swapped over when i get down there.

but it was enough to get done what i needed.

This kit has a lot of advantages for me.Lots of clearance for extractors,narrows the track for bigger wheels,adjustable ride height,bigger brakes and from what i've seen so far,alot more adustability(?) in the front end.

Unfortunatley the rear mounted rack will not work for me in this case,but if you wanted to run a commodore sump and cut down your column to the firewall,it would work a treat. 

I'll chuck up some more pics and hopefully have some more good news next time!

[bullitA9X]

Looking sweeeeeeeeet damo good work mate keep at it cant wait to go for a cruise again with ya...

[76lxhatch]

Looks interesting, there was some discussion on those front ends in another thread but first one I've seen in a car. Shame about the rear steering rack not working for you, some potential advantages in geometry there. Would be very interested to know what the static alignment and camber curve end up at.

[LXdamo]

Well its update time.

After a bit of prompting of course(thanks Marc)

 

So it hasnt all been beer and skittles in the shed lately. Frustration would be the best word.

 

So its mainly due to the CRS front end...No,its all to do with that f&%kn piece of shit.

It has been back to Victoria three times and it still doesnt fit.

I thought i'd give CRS the benefit of the doubt and let them sort it out. Until now.This time they have basically told me i need to alter my sump to clear the front end and they cant work out why i am the only one having these problems.

 

Well i have been calm and thought about not posting my problems publically in case i decided to take it further legally,but i am now over it. I'll just fix it myself so i know its going to be right this time. Unfortunately it will end up costing me more due to having to get an engineer to sign off on the mods that i am doing to the crossmember,but you live and learn i guess.

 

So where do i start...  from the beginning.

I will say to start with,i didnt order this over the internet or even the phone.I went to victoria,into the factory and asked all the important questions.

1.- will this bolt straight in? answer- yes

2.-Showed salesman a picture of my freshly built engine.will this fit straight in? answer -yes

3.-I know engines with large sumps have clearance problems,will my ASR 6.5lt sump fit? answer - yes

so from there we will start.

From the last post..

I had fitted the whole front end with a bit of swearing and cursing and thought i better make sure it all lined up. So that is where the problems started.

i'll let a pic tell that story.

 

so i was a bit puzzled??? after numerous emails,measurements and phone calls, it was pulled back out and sent back to Victoria.

Turns out it was built in the LC/J jig and that was why it didnt fit. CRS paid for the freight and that was cool.I was happy it was going to be fixed.They also changed it to a front rack as i wasnt happy with chopping my steering column back to the firewall to make the rear rack work.this is why.

 

 

So two weeks pass and i come home to the crossmember repaired and ready to fit in again.

Got all enthused and re-assembled the front suspension bits ready to go in.

Picture of re-jigged crossmember

 

 

So it fitted in the car. well close enough. I had a bit of issue getting the mounting bolts in the chassis. the rear bolt holes are 13mm different spacing to the front holes.. firstly i thought that maybe my chassis was dodge,but after double checking both original K frame i have,it wasn't the chassis or the original K frames.

So i worked around that.

 

So it was in the car.Check all the critical measurements and there were a few little issues like the front support arms having to be wound out too far.

 

Not enough holding for my liking. So i will be lengthening the those rods to at least get 3/4 of the heim joint threads inside the tube.. while on the front support arms. found out that if you intend on running a torana alternator bracket,the drivers side one will need to be modified by at least 2".

 

 

so, this is all good fun isnt it !!!

 

more to come...

 

 

[LXdamo]

so it came time to fit the engine in.

Hooked it up on the chain block and went to drop it in. suprise suprise it didnt fit!

 

You can just see the edge of the sump hitting the crossmember fairly substantially.

A couple more photo's.

I took the engine in and out about 5 times to see if i had done anything wrong in the set up,tried lifting at different angles and all sorts but knew it wasnt going in...

So i marked around the sump with the white paint pen to get an idea of how much i needed for clearance.(can see the marks on the previous pic of the crossmember)

ripped the engine out.Put the engine on the stand,locked the shed and went and cracked a few Jacks cans and got a bit munted.

 

After a couple of days,a few phone calls,emails of pictures i pulled the front end out again.

I found out you can lift the whole front end,tyres rims and complete  suspension by yourself when you are mighty piss&d off!!

 

Anyway,stripped the crossmember down to a bare assembly again and it went back to CRS. I dropped it off at my sister's workshop where it had previously been picked up from and rang them to let them know it was ready to go back.

Off to work i go and for a week and a half i hear nothing,until my sister messaged me and said it was still at their workshop and hadnt been picked up.

Well it took me half an hour to calm down before i rang them up and got 'we thought you were going to send it back'

For F$%#ks sake!!!! well it got picked up two days later and was back again in a weeks time.

This time i was told it couldnt be modified anymore because it would affect it's strength. So it came back like this.

It did look better,but i was sceptical for some reason.

so back to re-assembling the suspension(getting good at this)and putting it back in.

So the front end is in and i lift the engine in and again,it doesnt fit.

The flat section in the bottom doesnt let the sump go down far enough to get anywhere near the engine mounts

and the humped section is about 8mm too high to clear the sump as well

So after another lot of phone calls and pictures i was told i have to modify my sump. hmmm i dont think so

I rang an engineer friend and had a chat with him and after a plan was established,i decided to make it fit myself.

So out came the white paint pen again,marked some lines and had a clear plan in mind.

So the chopping started.Firstly out with the blue tongued lizard,and then the slitting disc on the grinder.

So the slits in the top section allowed the top to be bent down slightly for clearance of the sump.I V'd out the slot again and welded it all up.The cut out at the back allowed the sump to drop down far enough for the engine mounts to be close to bolting up. Yet again, found another problem. The engine mount brackets are on a stupid angle to where they shoud be.I even got a straight edge and ran across the front of the mounting blocks just to see how far they are out.

So these will have to cut off and re-positioned. I'll make up a jig off of the original k-frame and mounting points to try and get them close. The mounts also dont go down far enough to get a bolt through on both sides which is a pain as well.

 

so i did have the engine in there and it was sitting very close to where i was happy with it.

 

So once again, everything out of the car. Engine,front end and all that jazz.

 

Now to strengthen the crossmember due to having to cut into it for clearance.

I have only just started doing this and then it was time to go away for the long weekend.

Four days of fishing,drinking and eating certainly helped clear the mind!!

So when i get home from work,i will continue strengthening the front of the crossmember by boxing up the whole front section.

There will be another piece of 25x25x5 angle at the top,then a peice of 75mmx5mm flat barwelded across the front with internal gussets as well.

I'll keep taking pics along way so everyone can see whats been happening.

 

So there is a short story.

So i guess we'll see what happens and how it goes.

I should have gone and seen a local engineering company and had one made there,but you live and learn.

 

As always, Buyer beware!!!!

 

[neglectedtorana]

Hi Damo,

 

Unenjoyable to read you have had such trouble and the rod shop have washed their hands of it.

Do they realise pretty much everyone that would buy one is on this forum?

 

Thanks for such a detailed description and nice work on persisting and making it fit.

At least when you get done and have that adjustable front suspension it will be fun and a great achievement to be proud of.

 

Enjoy your welding

 

Cheers, Tom

[LXdamo]

Cheers Tom,

I will be persisting with it because it ticks all the boxes for what i'm after.Just a bit dissappointing it didnt fit like i was told it would.

I just hope it helps someone else so they dont have to go through what i am at the moment.

The welding is the easy bit,its the hangover from all the beer after welding that usually gets to me!!

[neglectedtorana]

Well you've helped me

Thanks Damo

 

Good luck and good building

[76lxhatch]

Well, bugger.

Does the engine actually sit in the same spot? Something doesn't seem right about the position of the engine mounts and the steering rack in relation to each other, not sure if one or both are in a different place?

[Toranamat69]

Gee wizz some pretty fundamental stuff they got wrong there.  Doesn't look to have had too much real testing done. 

 

I highly doubt they have tested it with very many sump, engine mount and extractor combos as there would be lots of combos between 6's and 8's and holdens and chev etc. 

 

I find many places if they don't know something will just wing it and tell you what you want to hear.  Once they have your money they have you by the balls.

 

If any companies making these things actually knew what they were doing and had actually done a proper design, they would have no issue releasing the geometry graphs for us all to see.  It would be very easy to verify if they were at least as good as the standard setup or if they had improved things or made them worse.  There are enough people around now that know the original shortcomings of the Torana front ends.  Spending that sort of money, I would expect a full detailed set of specs - they should have the info already - I can measure the vital stuff in my own shed so they have no excuse.

 

I take the lack of this information along with the blanket statements about how they have improved things to mean that they have actually just designed this stuff to look cool and take some cool upgrades without any real regard for fixing the geometry probs and possibly making them worse.

 

I can't help but think your sump would have been easier to mod or change.  That rear mount rack would have had no hope unless you went a dry sump.

 

What a terrible experience for the $$ spent.

[76lxhatch]

releasing the geometry graphs for us all to see

Good point, and they must have to provide that stuff for engineering purposes too...?

[LXdamo]

The geometry will be in the open soon enough.

If anyone wants know anything or measure anything,just give me a yell.

Once its in the car of course!!

 

the rear mount rack apparently is for use with a commodore sump(so they told me after i had it home and asked about it.

The kindly rang ASR and said for an extra $400 they would take my sump back and supply a commodore front bowled sump.

I spoke to the guy at ASR and he said that i would be better off staying with a rear bowled sump for the driving i will be doing with this car.

My engine builder was of the same opinion.

I did make sure that the sump i have cleared my original crossmember.fitted perfect with 5mm clearance.Of course that pissed me off more!

 

The engine is very close to the original position.It sits approx 7mm further back and about the same height.

The rack is totally different  to a standard rack and does make thimgs look out of place.

 

so we'll see what happens next when i get home i guess

[eyepeeler]

What a stuff up by the Rod Shop!! Good work so far making it into what you need.

[Bart]

I have used this software before, its quit good, but I haven't put it in practice. Would be good investment.

 

http://performancetrends.com/rc.htm

[ls2lxhatch]

I posted this in another thread however I though I would post it here to get some opinions.
 
 
I was thinking about the Waddingtons k-frame over the weekend and was wondering if removing the rear arms from the k-frame and using the front support arms significantly weakens the chassis.

The rear arms on the factory k-frame direct the braking load to the main chassis rails and also box in the front chassis rail. If you add a full roll cage then the chassis around the front suspension is reasonably well supported.





When braking force is applied the front support arms on the Waddingtons k-frame will be trying to bend the front chassis rail down. The front chassis rail is further weakened as it is no longer supported by the arms on the factory k-frame.

Some people are of the opinion that the chassis rails in front of the k-frame are not even strong enough to mount a front mount sway bar. The chassis rails in forward of the suspension are designed to crumple on impact.

I think the Waddingtons k-frame should have rear arms on a LX.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 29 October 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[Toranamat69]

Yeah I have thought about this a bit myself but I am not really sure if it is a concern or not. A single bolt on each outrigger setup in single shear would not take too much force though and the botls aren't that big.

 

 I am helping a mate do a major customisation on his 300ZX TT (at Dirtbag's at the moment for a hard top roof and other things) and it has very simlar size and basic shape chassis to the Torana and it uses a front end with strut rods to the front rad support near the end of the chassis rails.

 

The differences I can see is the front chassis rails are a little more substantial than the Torana ones and there is a triangular brace where the inner guard meets the firewall each side and another brace between chassis at the point where the original Torana K frame meets the chassis at the dog log and it runs horizontally out to the font of the sill panel. Jus something I have notice when looking for ideas to steal.

 

I have seen someone do a similar triangular brace from inner guard to firewall on a Torana hillclimb car - I'll try to find pics again.

[ls2lxhatch]

I have a 300ZX Z32TT.

 

Fender braces are popular on the 300ZX Z32. Mind you it seems that they are a bit obsessed with braces on the Jap cars. You can get strut braces, fender braces, swaybar braces, seat braces and under body braces.

 

 

 

 

 

The chassis rails on the Z32 are pretty solid and were designed to support the tension rods. The rails forward of the k-frame on the Torana will flex with a K-MAC front mount swaybar.

 

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 29 October 2013 - 02:23 AM.