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202 external oil lines?

Started by ant285 , Jul 11 2013 09:53 PM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 ant285

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:53 PM

hey all, i was just after a bit of info, how to's, or pics on installing external oil feed lines to the oil gallery of cylinders 1 and 6 on my 202.
any help would be greatly appreciated
cheers ant

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#2 dattoman

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:22 PM

Any of this help ?

http://www.gmh-toran...fit-pacemakers/

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#3 Stinga

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:01 PM

or this

http://www.gmh-toran...na/#entry734299

or this(repeat of datto's with some other info)

http://www.gmh-toran...ender-location/

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#4 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

hey all, i was just after a bit of info, how to's, or pics on installing external oil feed lines to the oil gallery of cylinders 1 and 6 on my 202.
any help would be greatly appreciated
cheers ant

I know it's a popular with some, but are you absolutely certain you need to do it?

To may my way of thinking, make sure enough oil flow gets into the main gallery, and flows out to the main bearings.

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#5 N/A-PWR

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

I know it's a popular with some, but are you absolutely certain you need to do it?

To may my way of thinking, make sure enough oil flow gets into the main gallery, and flows out to the main bearings.

Hi Ned,

I was wondering about the big lines running to the lifter area too, would all the oil take the easiest route and not the load area first. Dave I

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#6 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:57 AM

Hi Ned,

I was wondering about the big lines running to the lifter area too, would all the oil take the easiest route and not the load area first. Dave I

I think I know what your asking, but I dunno the answer for certain.

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#7 N/A-PWR

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

I think I know what your asking, but I dunno the answer for certain.

Basically agreeing with you Ned,

It would take more oil pressure to put oil to the Main / big end Bearings than lifter / cam areas, so external oil lines would have to govern this. Dave I

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#8 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

Basically agreeing with you Ned,

It would take more oil pressure to put oil to the Main / big end Bearings than lifter / cam areas, so external oil lines would have to govern this. Dave I

Not really. The flow to both bearings or lifters is in proportion to the square of the pressure, and neither will know or care where they are fed from. You could run a 2" external line and it's not going to make much difference.

I'm not convinced that the external lines are of much benefit though. If you do the sums on the factory gallery the pressure drop turns out to be pretty insignificant if you use a sensible oil grade and normal clearances (both bearings and lifter bores). It'd be interesting to tap the block at the ends and fit pressure gauges to check the drop from the centre to the ends, but again, unless you were using silly oil or clearances I doubt very much there'd be enough drop to worry about. I know it was a common mod back in the day but it's not something that concerns me at all.

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#9 S pack

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

Hi Ned,

I was wondering about the big lines running to the lifter area too, would all the oil take the easiest route and not the load area first. Dave I

Fluid flow, whether it be water, oil, molasses or whatever will always favor the path of least resistance. As oldjohhno said, you could use a 2" pipe but it's the resistance the oil meets at the discharge point (ie: bearings, lifters etc) that will ultimately determine the flow rates. Obviously if the feed pipe or gallery is undersized then it will, in itself, create a flow restriction

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#10 ant285

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

thanks everyone for your input.

this was just somethng i had heard about, and not really knew much about, but after seeing some replies it looks like its got barely any benefit.

cheers ant

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#11 _darkerheart_

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:12 AM

thanks guys ,i am about to build up another 202 and was going to look at the external oil-lines as my mate back 30 years ago had them and he was the king around here back then.i won,t bother now,thanks.also i,m finding it a bit hard to get a std bore red 202,got 3 here now and they are all 60thou,over.after reading johnos tips awhile back the more material left on the better,whats your thoughts on sleeves.i,m in herveybay qld if someone has a good block.regards ian.

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#12 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:06 AM

Virgins are pretty hard to find, re expensive.

People get there backs up when i refuse to pay more than $50 for a holden six with the head still on.

But, alas, i have brought about 20 so far, at around $50 each, and have two virgins, four other useable ones and a lot of junkers.

Adds up quick....

Cheers.

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#13 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:18 AM

From what I can understand (and I don't claim to fully know whats happening) the bore strength in itself isn't the issue, it's just that the thicker, heavier wall is better able to resist the effects of vibration. In other words it's not so much a case of wall deflection, it's more that a badly buzzing bore unseats and flutters the rings and this is what makes high rpm blowby a problem. I think a good 60 over block would probably be fine so long as you're on top of the vibration issues, you use a thin ring pack and the rpms are moderate (say 7500 and under).

But I don't know this for sure. Some people have run oversize bores succesfully, some have been heavy breathing disasters.

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#14 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

From what I can understand (and I don't claim to fully know whats happening) the bore strength in itself isn't the issue, it's just that the thicker, heavier wall is better able to resist the effects of vibration. In other words it's not so much a case of wall deflection, it's more that a badly buzzing bore unseats and flutters the rings and this is what makes high rpm blowby a problem. I think a good 60 over block would probably be fine so long as you're on top of the vibration issues, you use a thin ring pack and the rpms are moderate (say 7500 and under).

But I don't know this for sure. Some people have run oversize bores succesfully, some have been heavy breathing disasters.

Yep, i agree , but i do know that if you sonic test your block and find bores are in the centre of the casting and wall thickness is about .160" with standard bore then you can safely bore .075" .Mine is .075" overbore and is only puffing heavy now after 7 yrs of serious abuse.Blocks are cheap and the bigger bore gives better breathing and about 8hp and 8ft/lb more @1.3 hp/ci .Blocks are cheap and you could spend a lot of coin chasing 8hp other ways.

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#15 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

Virgins are pretty hard to find, re expensive.

People get there backs up when i refuse to pay more than $50 for a holden six with the head still on.

But, alas, i have brought about 20 so far, at around $50 each, and have two virgins, four other useable ones and a lot of junkers.

Adds up quick....

Cheers.

That's it Bomber, my experience exactly. if you had to charge someone and factor your time even at maccas wages, time/petrol to go and pick em up, strip em down etc etc., a std bore block is worth reasonable dollars.

Yep, i agree , but i do know that if you sonic test your block and find bores are in the centre of the casting and wall thickness is about .160" with standard bore then you can safely bore .075" .Mine is .075" overbore and is only puffing heavy now after 7 yrs of serious abuse.Blocks are cheap and the bigger bore gives better breathing and about 8hp and 8ft/lb more @1.3 hp/ci .Blocks are cheap and you could spend a lot of coin chasing 8hp other ways.

Dunno Mick. You have obviously had success and you can't argue with that, but I've split a block even at 40 thou over, and would be nervous at 75 thou. That was before I started sonic testing so I don't know what wall thickness was, and HP was only modest.

Sometimes when this sort of thing comes up I wonder if the street/strip guys might be able to get away with it, but the circut or dirt guys might run into trouble as they spend a lot more total time in the upper RPM range?

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#16 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

Sometimes when this sort of thing comes up I wonder if the street/strip guys might be able to get away with it, but the circut or dirt guys might run into trouble as they spend a lot more total time in the upper RPM range?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

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#17 Litre8

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:44 PM

Maybe the street/strip guys have also added some 'grout' into the lower block area to help with the block integrity.

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#18 _stretchlc_

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:19 PM

I'm seriously considering both grouting the block and adding Darton Sleeves aswell!!

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#19 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:15 PM

Dunno Mick. You have obviously had success and you can't argue with that, but I've split a block even at 40 thou over, and would be nervous at 75 thou. That was before I started sonic testing so I don't know what wall thickness was, and HP was only modest.

I was concerned about overboring as well ,I once had a HP block assembled and saw a tiny black spot in a bore which pushed through with a scriber (which the customer promptly blamed me for).Because of corrosion and core shift problems all engines since then have been sonic tested and even group nc front running cars who use our rotating assemblies with .055" and speedway cars with.075" overbores run fine without grouting .But in the end use what you feel comfortable with.