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Why wont my crush sleeve crush?


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#1 _Viper_

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:21 PM

Hey guys, well after waiting ages to get a hold of a inch pound torque wrench I had a go at assembling my ford 9" for the first time... I put it together as pictured here:

http://broncograveya...n/9inblowup.jpg

 

I was pressing the upper bearing in place slowly while feeling for it to take up the slack and start to pre-load before I would check it with the torque wrench but it got to a point and stopped, I could still move the "pinion retainer" up and down, the bearings were definitely not seated, Fitted the seal and yoke and tried to give it a go with the torque wrench but it would not budge... So I semi pulled it apart to double check and I cant see anything wrong, just the crush sleeve has not crushed at all :S

 

Here is a couple pics of it, Ive got the front seal in now so cant  take the front bearing out unless i take the seal out again but you should get the idea..

WP_20140127_004_zps0fcf9d00.jpg

 

Lower bearing fully seated

WP_20140127_005_zpsaa358930.jpg

 

looking at the pinion retainer from the diff center side.

WP_20140127_006_zps33b5740d.jpg

 

Just realised the pictures are pretty average, can get more if anyone thinks they will help, but yea am I missing something here? or doing something wrong?



#2 N/A-PWR

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:30 PM

Hi Clint,

didn't know something had to crush - that don't sound right 



#3 S pack

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:50 PM

Something doesn't look right about the way the front bearing is sitting. Did you install the front bearing race into the pinion retainer?

WP_20140127_006_zps33b5740d.jpg



#4 Rockoz

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:52 PM

Just pulling thoughts out of my head here.

Having pulled the odd diff apart over the years, are you sure an inch pound torque wrench is the right tool?

The yoke always seeemed to be a fair bit tighter than that.

Have always used a rattle gun to tighten up the yoke nut.

Only time Ive seen inch pound torque wrenches being used frequently is by an auto tranny mechanic.

Dont take my word for it, by all means check with others.



Mmm yeah Dave.

That bearing should be running on a cone I would think.



#5 _Viper_

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:18 PM

Yea the pics arent great, that last one the front bearing is just floating in there because the front seal is in place so it cant come all the way out... I do have the outer section of the bearing pressed into the pinion retainer...

Some diffs use a solid spacer but ford 9" use a crush sleeve (the ring just above the rear bearing in the first pic) you use a rattle gun and slowly tighten the nut  which crushes the sleeve while checking pinion preload with the torque wrench as you go.

Ive watched a few vids on youtube and as far as I can see im doing it correctly :S

 

And yea its inch pounds... 13-15 inch pounds in the yukon manual (brand of rebuild kit I got) altho ive seen multiple posts online with people saying to use 20-25 :S

 

Actually just reading through the manual here:

http://selectric.org...ukoninstman.pdf

 

it says

Crush Sleeve Design
On a crush sleeve design
differential it usually takes
between three hundred (300)
and four hundred (400) foot
pounds of torque to crush
the crush sleeve. Over the
years I have used huge
breaker bars and/or very
strong air operated impact
wrenches to crush the crush
sleeve.

 

 

So maybe I just need to try harder lol, The few videos I saw they seemed to do it with relative ease... The rattle guns didnt seem that big.



#6 Hell34

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:52 AM

You may need to pre crush the new sleeve in a press to within .020" to .030 of the old one as they are hard to start crushing by hand or you could call Chris Dimmoff at DTM he has solid ones you shim to suit the inch pound tension wrench is only for checking bearing preload after crushing spacer

DTM. 9249 9658

#7 76lxhatch

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:36 AM

Yep - as above the inch pound torque measurement is for the drag to check bearing preload (the torque required to turn the pinion freely).

You will need to hang off a big bar to get the spacer to crush (do it in very small increments once you get close!)

#8 Bernie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

Clint ,How loose is your flange yoke on the splines of the pinion ?If there is any movement other than the sliding of it on I would suggest you do away with the crush spacer and fit a solid one .That way you can be sure that it will not come loose at any time .Crush spacers need a fair bit of tension to get them to crush .You have to remember that the nut needs to be tight when it has crushed as well as it giving the correct load on the bearings also you have  the force of the engine trying to push the pinion forward when you give it some grunt .Me I always use a machined pinion spacer as it allows me to set up the contact pattern more easily as sometimes the pinion needs to be shifted to make sure it has the correct contact and I use loctite to keep it together on the final install .Stops it from coming loose and you can tighten the nut up more because the spacer is solid .

As mentioned previously the inch pound tension wrench is for checking pre load not setting it .

Bernie



#9 _Viper_

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

Hah yea I knew the inch pound was for checking preload, no way it could do up the nut haha, Or were you just stating it for the benefit of the other guys?

 

Me I always use a machined pinion spacer as it allows me to set up the contact pattern more easily as sometimes the pinion needs to be shifted to make sure it has the correct contact

 

Isnt this obtained by placing shims between the pinion retainer and the diff carrier? or do you sometimes need to place a shim between the pinion and the rear bearing to move it towards the ring gear more then the other shims will let you?



#10 purrlx

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

Recently done the front diff in my cruiser and it was 320 FOOT pound to set the crush tube squashing

Breaker bar and pipe to start crush then big torque wrench from work



#11 Bernie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:14 PM

Clint ,Correct on the 9" and removable pinion holders with the shims for pinion movement .Salisbury type and Banjo type you need to shim the back of the pinion between the bearing .This may mean pulling it apart a couple of times to get it right .That is when the crush spacer creates problems so I always use solids

Bernie


Edited by Bernie, 28 January 2014 - 11:16 PM.


#12 _Viper_

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:26 PM

Thanks Guys... What preload do you look for when building a new setup with new gears and bearings?

 

The yukon manual said 10-15inch pounds but Ive found a few people by searching on the net say 20-25?

 

With the Yukon being a official document and the maker of the bearings im inclinded to believe them, but Thought id get your thoughts.



#13 76lxhatch

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:03 AM

The gears don't make any difference (measure it without the crownwheel installed), but the seal does. It should be on the higher side with a new seal, and new bearings.




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