22 replies to this topic

[Heath]

I'm doing an LX backdate on my UC hatch and am considering lowering the floor to LX level. With the UC height, when you fold the seats down, they don't actually line up with the false floor properly which is pretty shithouse when you wanna sleep in the back with the hatch hutch arrangement.

Does anyone know what drove the move to raising the UC hatch false floor in the first place? I can't figure out what the advantage would be, really.

[S pack]

Would it have been to do with the UC floor pan having the raised section to clear the diff and they wanted to keep the floor flat so had to raise it to sit over the hump???

[Bigfella237]

I can't see how the diff could've been the reason, firstly A9X hatches had the 'big' Salisbury but not the raised floor, and even if they did raise the diff hump it doesn't actually come anywhere near the upper floor anyway...

 

 

Cheers, Mark

 

...there's a big space between the two.

 

The only reason I can think of would be maybe to fit a larger spare wheel?

[Bigfella237]

Hey Heath, is it possible your seats don't lay flat because you have a set of LX hinges?

 

See Tyre Biter's post here: http://www.gmh-toran...-14#entry797356

[76lxhatch]

which is pretty shithouse when you wanna sleep in the back with the hatch hutch arrangement

Not to mention you need to be around 150cm tall at most... I never figured out how they fit two people in for the TV ad

[Heath]

I'm on my phone so I'll keep it brief. Can someone with an unmolested UC hatch share some photos of their car with the seats down?

[UCSLE]

maybe adr rules for seat belts ?

[rodomo]

I'd reckon it's there to support the squab while its upright. They're only made of chipboard.

[Heath]

Would it have been to do with the UC floor pan having the raised section to clear the diff and they wanted to keep the floor flat so had to raise it to sit over the hump???

 
 

I can't see how the diff could've been the reason, firstly A9X hatches had the 'big' Salisbury but not the raised floor, and even if they did raise the diff hump it doesn't actually come anywhere near the upper floor anyway...
 
 
 
...there's a big space between the two.
 
The only reason I can think of would be maybe to fit a larger spare wheel?

Yeah I think the diff tunnel is bigger but BOTH LX and UC hatches have a fair gap there - I would not have any floor clearance problems.
 

Are you actually putting in a hutch?

A hatch hutch? Hell yeah. That's like half the reason I wanted a hatch lol
 

Hey Heath, is it possible your seats don't lay flat because you have a set of LX hinges?
 
See Tyre Biter's post here: http://www.gmh-toran...-14#entry797356

Thanks for reminding me of that thread! While this information is hugely relevant, I don't think your diagnosis is correct. If the outside hinges were different, then it would just swing on a diagonal. The centre hinge is integral to the car, so short of cutting and welding, it couldn't have been changed. Mine swing on a straight axis across the car BUT if UC is in-fact at a different height, then going straight to LX-height is going to open up another problem... this could take a bit of homework.

That leads into another question I guess - are the seats the same? Or are the pivot points in the seats different?
 

I'd reckon it's there to support the squab while its upright. They're only made of chipboard.

Interesting - I certainly hadn't thought of that.

FYI LX owners, this is what the sheet metal in the UC looks like. It isn't just a frame plastered with chipboard like an LX

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I really need to talk to someone with an unmolested UC hatch.

[Bigfella237]

Now that I start looking, I'm thinking there may be more to it than just the floor level (I borrowed this photo of an LX hatch from Racehatch)...

 

 

...you can clearly see how much higher the floor level is in the UC but also, I reckon the wheel tub itself looks taller?

 

And Heath's UC is missing the shock tower support brackets too, although I have seen them fitted to other UCs, not sure what's going on there?

Edited by Bigfella237, 06 April 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[UCSLE]

whats the holes on the floor for ? i always thought it was for child restraints , that's why its made of metal and could be why it is raised .

 

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[Bigfella237]

Nah ADR 34 (Child Restraint Anchorages) was added to the LX in the "BLX..." revision starting 01 July '76 so both models had them, but beefing them up may have been part of the reason that section is no longer tied together with chipboard?

[Heath]

Both the LX I looked at today and my UC have two captive threaded mounting points in that area.

I got my hands on what I believe to be an LX seat with LX brackets (passenger side) and a UC seat with UC brackets (driver's side).

In the upright position, they seemed to be identical?
 2015-04-06 17.44.42-2.jpg   204.99K   8 downloads

When laid flat, they were in a different fore-aft position, and this means that the hinged flap on the LX seat did not reach far enough to slot into the step at the front of the false floor.
 2015-04-06 17.15.12-2.jpg   167.81K   11 downloads

[Bigfella237]

Just to catch this thread up, the conversation moved to Heath's build thread temporarily...

 

Well I'm gonna cut the false floor out of this car to change the height of it. Would have been nice to do this when the tail lights were out but... oh well!

 

G'day Heath, do you think you should fit those shock tower braces out of an LX if you're gonna lower the floor?

 

I'm just wondering if the floor may have been raised (and that flat section filled) to allow more support between the wheel arches because they wanted to delete those upper braces for some reason?

 

Hi Heath, obviously you have seen a unmolested UC Hatch rear parcel tray before.... But I'm curious, have you removed the shock braces ?



In this early pic of my rebuild, you can see my shock braces, factory UC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hey Ron, I haven't removed them, it seems that some cars had them and some didn't.

Andrew, from an engineering perspective, moving that same false floor down 30mm (or less) does not in my opinion render a big difference in the integrity of the structure. I'll check it over with some others before ticking it off the list though.

 

Yep I've seen the same, some UC's had the shock tower braces, some didn't, but I'm wondering why?

 

Was it only 6 cylinder UC's that were braced, or were only Sunbirds braced, or were early UC's braced and later ones not? Did the height of the rear floor only change when the braces were deleted?

 

From what I can find, the UC Torana ceased production in December '79 but the UC Sunbird carried on till September '80, and there was only one ADR replacement in that time (for the Sunbird only), where ADR 28 was replaced with ADR 28A (Motor Vehicle Noise) effective 1 July 1980

 

ADR 34 (Child Restraints) was updated in January '85 but way too late to affect any Torana/Sunbird models.

 

My point is, I don't think ADR changes had anything to do with the differences we're seeing? But I'm sure interested in when and why they changed.

 

[Bigfella237]

Well this car is a Sunbird, if that helps.

 

I've got a UC TORANA hatch 6/78 6 cyl auto which has the braces

 

Thanks Daz, so if your UC Torana has the braces, I wonder if they were only deleted on Sunbirds like Heath's for some reason?

 

Next question, how do we measure to see if a UC with the braces has the same rear floor height as one without? Can you take a measurement from the floor to a common reference point Heath, then hopefully Daz or someone else with the shock braces can do the same?

 

I don't want to derail Heaths build thread but more than happy to take any measurements needed and either post them in here or a seperate thread?

I actually have 2 UC hatches which both have the braces but I haven't a clue of month, year, model, engine combo of the other one.

[UCSLE]

my hatch is a late sunbird ( had a starfire) without the braces but i do have a old sales brochure that shows a early opel sunbird with a brace.

my guess would be that the braces are not on late or sle sunbirds ?

 

Edited by UCSLE, 09 April 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Heath]

Cool call with the move, Andrew.
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 2015-04-09 17.29.39.jpg   191.57K   10 downloads

I am quite confident that all UCs are going to have this floor height, regardless of the shock braces.

Edited by Heath, 10 April 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[yel327]

I remember a mate having a 10/77 or thereabouts UC Sunbird hatchback, it was a very early build car. It had the raised tonneau floor relative to my 2/76 LX Torana hatchback. I always thought it was spare wheel related but never knew for sure.

[Heath]

Yes, I think it is. I don't have any 13" stockies where the car is, but it seems that the floor was raised to accommodate the spare wheel given the re-designed fuel tank which meant the actual floor had to be higher.

 

Basically when you're building a modified one, all of the above is irrelevant. I'm not going to run a spare, I'm not going to use the original fuel tank and I'm not going to have the original floor in tact. haha