244 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Just because Holden decided to drop the name Commodore and call them Monaro doesn't mean they are not a Commodore. To me this proves it is a two door Commodore!
Call it what you want, if replacement parts are Holden Commodore, you have your answer. And to say a Sunbird is not a Torana!!!!......... Come on!

 

If you use that logic a Pontiac is a Chevrolet or Vice versa. There is no such thing as a Transam as it is a Camaro etc.

 

Commodore was originally the entire range, but at VK GMH released the Calais and IT IS NOT A COMMODORE. End of story. Later on they released the Statesman, Monaro, Ute etc None of those are Commodore.

This is totally consistent with everything GM or Holden ever did. In HQ the Statesman was based on the same platform as a Holden but it isn't a Holden, just like a modern Statesman isn't a Commodore. They chose what to name a car or a lux level of a car. If they chose not to call them Commodore then that is their choice.

 

And yes, a Sunbird is NOT a Torana. Just look at any paperwork, parts manuals etc. They are never called Torana. Why the Dandenong assembly plant typed Torana on the ADR plate is somewhat of a mystery, however a lot of the info on these tags is pre-typed prior to them being assigned to a car - this is the reason for the gap between for example CLX0 and the rest of the chassis number. My guess is the decision was made at the manufacturing level and they were all prepared the same, they didn't know if a tag was going on an LX Torana or an LX Sunbird until it was stamped with the remainder of the applicable chassis number.
 

[orangeLJ]

So when people say we are 'exporting the commodore to the world' we are actually exporting a Chevrolet ss becauee thats what it gets called when sold?

The Nova was a rebadged corolla, the lexcen a rebadged commodore.

Calling it a different name does not change the fact that the architecture is the same..

[yel327]

So when people say we are 'exporting the commodore to the world' we are actually exporting a Chevrolet ss becauee thats what it gets called when sold?

The Nova was a rebadged corolla, the lexcen a rebadged commodore.

Calling it a different name does not change the fact that the architecture is the same..

 

Yes, just like we exported the Pontiac GTO. No different to GMH selling cars here named Rodeo or Jackeroo or whatever when they are named something else entirely overseas.

 

The Nova and Corolla were actually assembled in a GMH assembly plant just like the Lexcen.

 

No-one is questioning the architecture. It is the NAME that is in question, and Commodore is A NAME not the architecture.

[orangeLJ]

Commodore Ute.

[RallyRed]

Yay. 

And I agree, Fact is fact, oppinion is oppinion. 

thats only your opinion

[yel327]

But the First commodore ute, the VG, had commodore badges... Check and mate, it set the precedence, they are all commodore Utes

 

I agree, VG, VP, VR and VS S Utes (not Holden Utes) had a Commodore badge on them for some unknown reason. There is nowhere else that I can find that calls them a Commodore, so i'm taking this as an aberration just like the TORANA name on a Sunbird's ADR tag. All other literature and data states the opposite.
 

[Dr Terry]

Is a 48 series sedan an FX, or not ?

 

My take on this, is a bit less pedantic. I would suggest that the GM-H engineers, back in 1980-81 when the VK was on the drawing board, would've referred to their upcoming model line as the VK Commodore 'range'. It would've been later in the game that marketing decided on the top-line version being re-badged Calais. Let's face it a VH Commodore SL/E & a VK Calais are equivalent & sequential models & to me at least, they are still both Commodores.

 

Again with the Ute. In its gestation, the engineering brief would've been to design a Commodore Ute. What it gets badged comes much later & as has been demonstrated on several occasions, not very consistently.

 

Even the V2 Monaro was known as the VT Commodore coupe in its design & car show period. The V2's Monaro badge came after much soul searching. I was actually involved in that process (I will tell you about that at another time) & the GM-H board members were still calling it the Commodore coupe, during those discussions.

 

The original HK coupe was a totally different scenario. During its design phase it would've been called the Holden coupe, because in those (pre-Torana) days they were all Holdens, so no different name was required. By the time it arrived however, it was badged Monaro as opposed to Belmont, Kingwood etc. If you go back a little further in time, say to EJ/EH days, the Premier was a fancy Special, which in itself was a fancy standard, but we did not differentiate them, they were all simply Holdens.

 

A lot of this was compounded when Holden became a marque, when at one time it was just a model of car that a company called GM-H built, i.e. the Holden sedan (48-215). Today the name Holden is just a marque which sells many products, everything from Barinas, Cruzes, Traxes, Malibus & Captivas to Commodores & Colorados. Nobody goes into a dealership anymore & asked to drive the new "Holden'. They will say Commodore or Barina, or whatever.

 

I think to keep it context, Commodores, Calais', Berlinas, Utes & Monaros, even Statesman & Caprice are all Commodore based so therefore all part of the Commodore range, badge or no badge.

 

Dr Terry

 

BTW, Happy New Year to all.

[yel327]

I understand what Terry is saying, but I disagree that any without at least having a Commodore badge are not Commodores (although just to confuse the issue some of the very late cars that are genuine Commodores don't even wear a Commodore badge!). Commodore based, that I can agree upon. Otherwise we have the silly situation for exported cars or CKD kits, like Holdens to South Africa are Chevrolet not Holden, many even had Chevrolet engines and transmissions. These are based upon a Holden but they aren't a Holden. Pontiac GTO's are Monaro based, but they are as different to a Monaro as a Firebird is to a Camaro - same basic platform but different in many ways. This is also how I see most HSV's, sure they are based upon a Commodore for the sedan versions but they are no longer a Commodore.

[eyepeeler]

I understand what Terry is saying, but I disagree that any without at least having a Commodore badge are not Commodores (although just to confuse the issue some of the very late cars that are genuine Commodores don't even wear a Commodore badge!). Commodore based, that I can agree upon. Otherwise we have the silly situation for exported cars or CKD kits, like Holdens to South Africa are Chevrolet not Holden, many even had Chevrolet engines and transmissions. These are based upon a Holden but they aren't a Holden. Pontiac GTO's are Monaro based, but they are as different to a Monaro as a Firebird is to a Camaro - same basic platform but different in many ways. This is also how I see most HSV's, sure they are based upon a Commodore for the sedan versions but they are no longer a Commodore.

I really do see what you are saying and agree with it. Problem is that most people don't really give that much of a shit about semantics.
They bought a spade from Bunnings and someone said "nice shovel mate". And so the argument begins on weather he bought a shovel or a spade.