97 replies to this topic

[REDA9X]

I remember hearing about them when they (Bill Paterson Holden)
was modifying them at the time, and also seeing one,
it was a 2 door A9X , lowered all round with big wheels, roll cage
and big exhaust, being driven around by an elder gentelman.
And this is when it was new, not some years later.

Louie

There were a few dealerships doing odd things to cars at the time

[Toranavista]

I think some real research is required.
A stock 4spd manual 308 SL Torana was quicker than a stock A9X and just behind an SLR 5000.

My advice would be to start the research with the 308 SL Torana.

[REDA9X]

"I think some real research is required.
A stock 4spd manual 308 SL Torana was quicker than a stock A9X and just behind an SLR 5000"

Considering there was no such thing as a stock SL 308 4 speed, then theres no way it's quicker than an A9X. However, if there was such a thing, then potentially, yes it could be a little bit quicker, the same way a stock SLR5000 was quicker than a stock L34, and as stated before, that would only come down to 14" wheels against 13" wheels. If such a thing as an SL 4 speed was made, why it would be just behind an SLR5000 has got be buggered, considering they would be mechanically identical, if anything, the SLR5000 might be slightly heavier.

A few SL308 hatches did slip out the door, but I have only seen and heard of a couple.

"The A9X had different heads from standard, thicker and stronger conrods, better bearings etc, etc, etc to produce a hopefully bullet proof motor for racing."

I gather the above is in reference to race cars, because a stock A9X engine does not have all this gear.

"Almost forgot, the A9X did use the "Blue Block" but that did not relate to the actual colour of the block. "

considering there is SFA difference between the late pollution 308 blocks as fitted in the LX HZ and VB Commodore to the blue one fitted in the VC, I guess you could call it a blue block, but really, it was just the same as the L34 blocks anyway. The extra webbing etc from the L34 was carried over onto all blocks after that, and really, the block never changed again until the introduction of the Group A rules when it was now called a 5.0l, not a 308. Check out the parts book, the A9X block is no different to any other 308 block at the time. Officially, blue blocks didn't come out till the WB and VC.

"The A9X was heavier due to all the good bits added both in the suspension and the motor to make it stronger for racing. Holden sold the 500 cars required in a very detuned state to meet the ADR requirements. Officially there was no HO pack available to the public but you could buy it if you knew the right people to ask."

The A9X would have been ever so slightly heavier than a 5000 because of the heavier diff and the flares, but they also had no radio or luxury items. The engine bay had less crap in it, and the suspension didn't weigh any extra. The A9X engine was the same as the 5000 at the time, except for the lack of fan and different cam. The internals are stock 308. Check out the part numbers and you will see. The A9X didn't need to have a hot motor, Holden had already homolgated the good bits with the L34. A race A9X was able to use the L34 comonentry in the engine.

The HO pack was a spare part, if you had $1500, of course you could buy it, if there were any still available, but Holden dealerships were NOT allowed to fit it to anything later than L34 because it contraviened ADRS at the time. Holden even send out a letter to all dealers saying they were not to be fitted, it was simply against the law. If a dealer was willing to take a chance and your money, then I'm sure he would fit it for you.
BTW, there wasn't 500 A9X's made, even if you count the race shells.

[CI 0308]

Be warned Pretender, RedA9x eats lives and breathes A9x's so take him on at your peril. Sit back relax and enjoy the flight guys, this is gunna be good.

[Toranavista]

Hi pretender your contribution and participation is most welcome. Keep in mind that in sourcing info for your original project there would have been lots of misinformation. I have a good collection and find the mags of the 80's up until as recently as last month have lots of errors. I would have to agree that REDA9X is the most reliable source of info on this subject. It is hard to verify much of what you see on the web as well. My advice has always been collect all the info, verify the source and then make up your own mind. BTW i personally would look forward to the opportunity to see that old project

[REDA9X]

Pretender, the post you just put up about the A9X was written by me. I wrote it in 2000 for a Unique Cars article, and once that article was prited, I then posted on our club website, which I gather is where you got it from. I think it pretty much covers the facts.
welcome to the forum

[REDA9X]

308 to 304 is different stroke
308 5044 cc
304 4987cc

[REDA9X]

I have been reading what has been written in these posts and i own a L34 and my mate owns a Stock slr 5000 4 speed and in no accelaration test of any sort could his car beat mine and by a large margin , Put it this way his car weighs more than mine has a supposed 240 horsepower and i know that mine puts out as it is at least 300, little wheels or not he hasnt the go to beat mine , and when i did drag race regularly i had a very good set of low profile bf goodrich for the rear that would equall his 13 s, any way can anyone explain to me why every one quotes this ?maybe someone wrote it and it become bible , REX

raccy, you are talking about 30yo cars now that have been modified or flogged out, you can't compare them. Everything that was written was based on 2 new stock cars.

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

I thought it was time to put in my 2c worth.

The question as I see it is, �What is the most powerful Torana V8 in standard form ?� That is really 3 questions in one.

1. Which version has the highest �published� power output figure. ?
2. Which version is �really� the most powerful ?
3. Which version is the quickest, say, over the quarter mile ?

Because we are talking �as they left the factory�, we cannot include the L34 HO pack, any race-prepared car or any modified car.

The published output figure for both the pre-ADR27A 308/5 litre & the standard L34 is 240 bhp (gross). The ADR27A version has published output of 216 bhp (gross). What is not generally known, is that the LH 308/5 litre from Oct �74 onwards had the same 250 bhp motor as the just released HJ series. These motors (engine number HT24413 onwards) had their compression ratio increased from 9.0 to 9.7 & their camshaft timing altered & they went a lot better than the old HQ/early LH, 308/5 litre. So the prize for the most powerful Torana V8 using published figures goes to LH/LX from Oct �74 to June �76 with 250 bhp. This motor was officially only available in the LH SLR5000, & the early LX SL/R5000 & early LX SS Hatchbacks. The published figure for the L34 was only ever 240 bhp, but of course, this was not its real output.

On the subject of LH Torana S or SL with a 308/5 litre, I�ve seen a couple of S Toranas in plain white & blue & the story the owners tell is that they were built as prototypes or demonstrators for the various state Police Departments. The body plate backs up the fact that they left the factory as 8VB69 with L31 engines. I�ve not seen or heard of any SLs with 308/5 litre V8s.

On the point of which was �really� the most powerful Torana, I�m going against the general forum opinion & vote for the L34 in standard form. I�ve tuned & driven many L34s when they were new & I tend to think that the motoring writers of the day were given badly tuned L34 for their road tests. It stands to reason, in light of the supercar scare that GM-H would not have wanted road tests promoting super quick V8 Toranas. The car was quietly introduced to the market without GM-H even issuing a news release. To back up this point, in the mid �70s we used to drag race at Sydney�s Castlereagh dragstrip & compared a lot of different stock Toranas & other Holdens at that time. A well-tuned (factory specs) L34 had no trouble getting consistent 15.2 sec ETs on standard tyres & standard exhaust etc. When I say well-tuned, most cars as delivered out of the dealerships weren�t timed correctly & rarely had full throttle, all we did was optimise these & other minor issues. A good �75 SL/R5000 manual could do 15.7 secs. I personally owned a 9/75 automatic SL/R5000 that had no trouble doing consistent 15.5 ETs. Most SL/R5000 road tests were done using early HQ type 240 bhp engined cars. Another thing that makes a big difference to 1/4 mile times is rear axles ratios & a V8 with a 3.08 diff always had it all over one with a 2.78 diff & aren�t they both factory stock. While were doing 1/4 mile comparisons, even though it produced less horsepower a �73 Bathurst XU-1 would be the quickest stock Torana (in the 14 sec bracket), by virtue of its lighter weight.

Some people are saying that the L34 had no go-fast bits & the engine mods were only for durability. I think that the big valve heads & matching inlet manifold would count as go-fast bits & in general there is not that much difference between a stock L34 motor & the early Brock VC Commodores. L34 motors also had the 4-lobe twin coil ignition system that did deliver a much better spark at high RPM whereas the Brocks had Bosch HEI. VC Brocks still had cast iron exhaust manifolds so the comparison to the restrictive L34 exhaust (after the headers) is a valid one. L34s were actually quicker than contemporary motor magazine road tests suggested.

A9Xs only ever left the factory with the stock ADR27A power-plant, so they were slightly down on gross power when compared to the earlier cars, but of course the A9X had no engine fan fitted. An engine fan does suck more power than many people realise especially higher in the RPM range. A well-tuned stock A9X with a 3.08 diff could easily do high 15 sec ETs. Also contrary to popular belief, the ADR27A motors weren�t that much less powerful than the older motors. What was different with the anti-pollution motors was that they weren�t happy in traffic, in the lower gears & when cold. But once warmed-up & in top gear on the open road they went just as well as pre-ADR27A motors.

Did I open up a new can of worms ?

Dr Terry

[REDA9X]

Terry, I don't think you have opened up any cans really. All good points, as I tried to say from the start when the original question was asked, you couldn't compare stock figures of an early 308SS against an A9X. As for the L34 being the most powerful, I think that was fairly much agreed on, so you aren't going against the flow. I'd also agree most cars were not tuned corectly, as you know the L34 was little more complicated than a stock 308 to tune.
One thing I will say is the 2 cars in the article I have (L34 against SLR5000) are not cars supplied by GMH to test, they were owned by dealers at the time, but still stock. GMH at the time was not supplying L34's for testing.
Here is an interesting line
" The Torana L34 is the basis for a very potent and brutish racing sedan, yet in standard form it is a good handling, well braked and docile car."

and a few lines on
"...the L34 has better handling and braking, and is everything you'd expect of a limited edition, competition orientated car, except that it doesn't have that extra poke."

I don't believe the L34 was down on power from a 5000, just very similar, all the main bits were there, they just needed the couple of extra bits to get it all working. As I said earlier, after speaking to people like Greg Myers, (who had these cars and also draged at Castleraugh), he believed the 13" wheels was the only factor giving his stock 5000 the edge over the stock L34's at the time.
The main argument in this thread seemed to be the L34 in stock form from the factory was some sort of rocketship, far superior in HP to any other Torana built, I think that has been proven wrong either way.

On the ADR27A cars, yes, they definately are not happy when cold. With both ADR27A Toranas I have had (and others I have spoken to with all the pollution gear connected), they both had studders (around 130km/h with 3.08 diffs) at higher revs in 3rd. Reading articles of the day suggested it was common. As you say, when they get into top, it doesn't seem to be a drama, I would think it's something to do with the top gear solinoid setup allowing vacumn advance .

Just for the record, my fairly much (larger than standard exhaust, larger valves but still original bore, pistons, exhaust manifold etc) bog stock car did 15.541 at Eastern Creek, and I wasn't really trying too hard. I still managed to beat a VY Clubby 285kw on my first ever run though, lol.

Edited by REDA9X, 14 February 2006 - 04:38 PM.

[Toranavista]

One wonders as well if the L34 was so tame then why the requirement for a CAMS license to purchase? I guess some politics involved for sure!