27 replies to this topic

[Heath]

lol I do have a 186s, sadly it isn't for sale mate.

186's (and 186s's) run smaller bearings than the 202, and therefore they are more "revvy" naturally.

But I mean any motor can be built to rev; if you get a 202, put a knife-edged, balanced crank in, roller rockers, take out the second set of compression rings etc, it'll rev off its tits any day of the week!

Both 173s and 186s run the same sized bearing journals I think, so they have the same "revvy" nature.

All the manifolds are the same, but the 186s ran a WW Stromberg (which is a twin barrel) - or actually I dunno. I don't know anything about LC/LJs but I know that some of the GTRs ran those carbies, could someone tell me what motor that was on?

But yeah all red top ends are universal i.e. the head of a 186 is the same as a 202 head, but it has different rocker towers.

A 173/161 head will bolt onto a 202/186 and make it a higher comp motor etc.

Until you get to blue/black 12-Port manifolds and heads, everything is interchangeable.

Edit: Don't bother with a 186s. Do you want a revvy motor? A motor with high compression? etc let us know what you're after and we'll give you ways to get it. It isn't worth buying a 186s.

Edited by Heath, 27 November 2006 - 06:29 PM.

[FastEHHolden]

Certainly early 186S did...but as comes up here a couple of times a year...every 149, 179, early 161 and 186 did....Dr Terry points to a date somewhere in 1968.

The LJ XU1 (which would have to be Holdens best attempt at extracting power from a red 6) ran a cast crank.

Which is better 186 or 202?
For mine its a 186...only because the 202's i own are a bit lazy...Its not to say some people can't get them singing..its not rocket surgery!

All manifolds are interchangeable..differences between 186 and 186S were: WW Stromberg carburettor, manifold to suit carb, cast headers and higher lift cam. As far as I am aware the compression is the same at 9.2:1. Power for 186 = 130 hp, 186S= 145hp and 202=137hp.

You can get 186S's but its going to need a rebuild...and you can make any red motor go hard as you want it to..with a bit of foldy stuff.

[Heath]

its not rocket surgery!

lol, yep FastEH just gave you all the info you should need really. Never knew they had a high lift cam, but I'll take your word for it!

How are the headers different from the standard ones mate? Not following there. You're not talking about the XU-1 headers that are in multiple pieces are you?

[FastEHHolden]

Not that I know part numbers or anything..but the 186S has it parentage with the 179 X2 engine in the HD...it had a pair of strombergs, twin strommy manifold, high lift cam. When the HR came out the 179 was gone so it became the 186 X2....when they changed to the 186S all that changed was the carb, inlet and exhaust manifold...as far as i know the cam stayed.

The X2 had seperate exhaust and inlet manifolds.....before that inlet manifold and exhuast manifolds were bolted together to give heat for vapourisation. The 186S had the same cast 2 piece headers as the XU1.

[FastEHHolden]

and I nearly forgot..the X2 had a different distributor (different advance curve)...the bottom portion was painted rocket red..I would assume that got carried over to 186S too.

Edited by FastEHHolden, 27 November 2006 - 10:29 PM.

[rodomo]

Fact: 202 beat 351 at Bathurst, 186 didn't.

[Heath]

^ I like that

[Heath]

it's the other way around with piston rings heath - if you keep adding them the motor will rev harder... The pro's call them speed rings!!

haha good idea Keithy!

I'm aware of the shorter stroke aiding the revs; I thought that was a given.

People argue that the smaller bearings have less internal resistance which helps with revs and effeciently turning the motor in the first place, that's why I mentioned it.

The second set of compression rings? Yeah I don't think I'd do that to a car that I own but apparantly it does work very well. People have told me about them doing it in the past and the results don't sound too bad.

LOL!

Edited by Heath, 28 November 2006 - 03:29 PM.

[FastEHHolden]

I know of race bikes where they did it..to cut down on friction..and the engines are regularly rebuilt....it not something i go in for.


I have also heard of the narrower bearings having less friction...but lets face it..it really isn't that much.

[gooley]

well i own both of them the 186 in my LC torana and 202 in my HQ Kingswood Ute......You ask which one is better well i choose the 186 but again the 186 has been worked....has got a lumpy cam and i have heard a rumour that it has been bored out to be a 192 but i am not exactly sure (done by previous owner/s).......but i choose 186

[LOWS2]

Im getting a 186 built next year, only cause it was offered at bargain basement price & is a virgin bore block so i can pick & choose pretty much anything i want done to it.

I guess it comes down to whatever block you can get your hands on at the time.

[FastEHHolden]

The world has come a long way since 1973...remember these things were to power family hacks and builders utes...not necessarily to lap bathurst.

Holden had 3 different goes at the 186...Stock 186 was 130hp, 186X2/186S was 145 and LC XU1 was 160 hp (wasn't it?) So both the X2/S and XU1 slaughter the 202 @ 137hp....but the 190hp of the LJ XU1 puts the 202 over the top.

I'm still the fan of the underdog.

[RIM-010]

What about 173's?

RIM