893 replies to this topic

[Balfizar]

S / DLR Z

I have been cross referencing my dealer list (1800 including all variants) to try and confirm and at least record all dealer numbers against the VIN disc.
I am having a few problems with the Selling dealer Zone and have found the following:-

604 - zone 1 and Zone 2 and W
494 - Zone 1 and Zone 2
495 - Zone 1 and Zone 2 and A
496 - Zone 1 and Zone 2
750 -Zone 1 (70's) and Zone 4 (90's)

can anyone clarify why a dealer can change zones, I also know that there are multi state corporate dealer networks (even in the (70's)
eagers/ United comes to mind.

I also understand that zones are not confined to state boundaries, its more like distance from the manufacturing plant.
an example is broken hill zoned SA and Darwin was zoned QLD in the 70's (zone 1 vin disc) and Zone 4 ( 90's GMH dealer listing)

Some S/DLR numbers had 2 zones listed on the one page (within a month of car production)
I can only assume (and thats dangerous) that 000 with A, M, S or B or X means Adel / Melb / Syd / Bris or Export.

I have seen enough examples over 120 page spread that I don't believe its a type O.

Anyone clarify? Is zone related to the dealer location or the cars manufacturing plant origin, and that may account to the occasional variant!

Cheers
Balfizar

Edited by Balfizar, 13 April 2011 - 10:52 PM.

[Balfizar]

S / DLR Z

I have been cross referencing my dealer list (1800 including all variants) to try and confirm and at least record all dealer numbers against the VIN disc.
I am having a few problems with the Selling dealer Zone and have found the following:-

604 - zone 1 and Zone 2 and W
494 - Zone 1 and Zone 2
495 - Zone 1 and Zone 2 and A
496 - Zone 1 and Zone 2
750 -Zone 1 (70's) and Zone 4 (90's)

can anyone clarify why a dealer can change zones, I also know that there are multi state corporate dealer networks (even in the (70's)
eagers/ United comes to mind.

I also understand that zones are not confined to state boundaries, its more like distance from the manufacturing plant.
an example is broken hill zoned SA and Darwin was zoned QLD in the 70's (zone 1 vin disc) and Zone 4 ( 90's GMH dealer listing)

Some S/DLR numbers had 2 zones listed on the one page (within a month of car production)
I can only assume (and thats dangerous) that 000 with A, M, S or B or X means Adel / Melb / Syd / Bris or Export.

I have seen enough examples over 120 page spread that I don't believe its a type O.

Anyone clarify? Is zone related to the dealer location or the cars manufacturing plant origin, and that may account to the occasional variant!

Cheers
Balfizar

I have noticed it is very inconsistent on the Vin Disc data as far as S DLR "Z" is concerned, sometimes the corresponding letter is used sometimes the Zone number is used
sometimes in a large group no letters are used at all and then pages later there use returns. Got to love the 70's

000 - P anyone know what this means (Promotion???)

Cheers
Balfizar

[Bazza]

Hi Balfizar


You are correct about the inconsistent use of letters/numbers for the selling zone. I guess it was up to the individual operator what format they wanted to use. Perhaps the data was input/recorded in different locations and each location had their own procedures? It appears during mid '71 the 200 series was phased in and the 000 usage diminished somewhat.

Have you noticed also that from mid '73 the selling zone column, more often than not, had an A or a B (Adelaide or Brisbane - the factory location) and rarely the number representing the State of sale.

P would be Perth, given that S A B M are taken to mean Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne respectively.

You are going over a lot of old ground here, but it is important to get others views on things.

Here's one for you to think about - 000 D (and it's not Darwin).

Cheers

Bazza

[Balfizar]

Hi Balfizar


You are correct about the inconsistent use of letters/numbers for the selling zone. I guess it was up to the individual operator what format they wanted to use. Perhaps the data was input/recorded in different locations and each location had their own procedures? It appears during mid '71 the 200 series was phased in and the 000 usage diminished somewhat.

Have you noticed also that from mid '73 the selling zone column, more often than not, had an A or a B (Adelaide or Brisbane - the factory location) and rarely the number representing the State of sale.

P would be Perth, given that S A B M are taken to mean Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne respectively.

You are going over a lot of old ground here, but it is important to get others views on things.

Here's one for you to think about - 000 D (and it's not Darwin).

Cheers

Bazza

Bazza
Would that be ( Dandenong body and assembly plant). I've got an '84, '94 and '03 GMH dealer ID list which is helpful in my quest for all GMH dealer ID (National) since the dawn of GM in Australia.
As you will well know thats very hard to tie down as dealers come and go. What is also complex is the dealer variants (one dealer ID 10+ locations or one dealer ID progressively moving through 6 locations
in 30 years and worst still one location with 6 different dealers resident at one time over 30 years. Multi ownership changes and "Trading as" complicates things further. Ah! but it is a challenge.
I have yet to venture into the 40's, 50's and 60's which will prove interesting. I have found that owners manual are an unreliable source.

I have 19 ID unaccounted for yet.
I have about 150 ID accounted for (they exist) but no associated Dealer name and location.
I have about 150 dealer names and locations but no associated Dealer ID.
Sounds eazy doesn't it. Ha!

Its going to take cooperation or a break through with new GMH documentation to drill down further.

It's been a very interesting process and learning curve and there is a lot more to learn. Some of the early "pioneer" dealers history is facinating.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Balfizar

[Balfizar]

Cannot find dealer ID info on the following numbers

407, 516, 582, 680, 696, 714, 734, 737, 770, 813, 829, 835, 843, 845, 861, 868, 919, 923, 929

Does anyone have any info on the above numbers as Dealers that existed? (not sure if these numbers were ever used)
However, they could be in the 40's, 50's or 60's which I have not investigated yet.

From about 300 to 929 these are the only dealer ID I don't have info on but don't get too excited
I have not got all the 70's info but 80's, 90's and naughties are close.

As I am (slowly) learning Dealer ID's changed owner, location and even states through the decades.

so if you want to know a dealer Id you must specify a time period or date for accuracy.

Cheers
Balfizar

Edited by Balfizar, 27 April 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[Dr Terry]

Cannot find dealer ID info on the following numbers

407, 516, 582, 680, 696, 714, 734, 737, 770, 813, 829, 835, 843, 845, 861, 868, 919, 923, 929

Does anyone have any info on the above numbers as Dealers that existed? (not sure if these numbers were ever used)
However, they could be in the 40's, 50's or 60's which I have not investigated yet.

From about 300 to 929 these are the only dealer ID I don't have info on but don't get too excited
I have not got all the 70's info but 80's, 90's and naughties are close.

As I am (slowly) learning Dealer ID's changed owner, location and even states through the decades.

so if you want to know a dealer Id you must specify a time period or date for accuracy.

Cheers
Balfizar

If I can help, I would every Holden dealer in Sydney since the late 60s, off the top of my head & could probably verify a few dealer numbers.

I would know all the name changes & address changes as well.

Dr Terry

[Balfizar]

[quote name='GRUMPY 73' timestamp='1303952310' post='587779']
Hello,
Dealer 680 used to be W.H. FOSTER & SON in WAIKERIE S.A during the 60's and early 70's .later became Francombe Holden then Riverside Holden all 3 dealers at the same
address 6 Crush Terrace Waikerie

Grumpy 73


1 March 2003 (GMH documentation) dealer ID 749 Riverside Holden Waikerie 08 8541 2900
1 November1994 (GMH Documentation) dealer ID 749 Riverside Holden 6 Crush Terrace Waikerie (Company name Riverside Motors Pty Ltd) franchise start date of 1/3/1989 phone 08 5412 2900 Dealer Principle Mr J. S. Matschoss (Jeff)
1 January 1984 (HDT Commodore sales) dealer ID 615 Francombe Holden Waikerie
I also have Fosters of Waikerie Pty Ltd

As far as I can tell Dealer ID 680 did not appear to have sold an LC or LJ (1969 to 1974) which would be strange!

But with nothing better I will list 680 as W. H. FOSTERS of Waikerie (in Grey)

Thanks Grumpy 73

Cheers
Balfizar

Edited by Balfizar, 28 April 2011 - 01:33 PM.

[Balfizar]

Sorry i threw a bit of a curve ball Foster is actually 682 not 680 as i stated yesterday so please diregard my post yesterday,i should have checked my list at home before
posting without checking.

Grump 73

Ones of us is "mistaken" and I seek only that both of us are right.

I have 682 as Country Motors 76 Railway terrace South Lameroo SA from HDT commodore documents (1984) and I wouldn't bet my life saving on that is
100% correct. So there is still a question mark over 680 and now 682 amongst many others.


Conrad's butcher shop was built in 1907 then from 1910 to 1916 the building was shared with Mr Herbert Mayo, a barrister and solicitor. In about 1918 Mr H Ullrich started a business servicing motor cars. In 1925 it became Finch & Coward and in 1927 it was bought by Reg Downing who started trading as Country Motors. He installed an electric generator and sold power until electricity supply was taken over by ETSA. At the rear of the premises, in the late 1940s, Maurice Pahl had a blacksmiths shop and sold hardware, he later changed from smithing to welding. Country Motors transferred to Roy Dunn and Vic Millsteed in 1947. The business closed in the 1980s and the premises were vacant until used as a garden centre and florist. Huntsworth Classics garden furniture started manufacturing in the rear section and the front was used for a time as the Lameroo Craft Shop. Now the building is operated as a stock and station agent and insurance agency along with the garden furniture.

Cheers
Balfizar

Edited by Balfizar, 29 April 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[Bazza]

Hi

I had 682 as W H Foster and Son Pty Ltd in Wakerie SA - so thanks for clearing that up GRUMPY73

Cheers

Bazza

[Balfizar]

Whilst on the subject of w.h. foster & son they sold 34 LC & 36 LJ torana's of which were 3 x LC gtr's & 2x LJ gtr's

I have alisting for 680 selling 1 only LC ib oct 1971

Grumpy 73

Thanks Grumpy,
So who was 680 with the 1 LC sold in Oct 1971, they could not have lasted long into the 70's with those sort of sales numbers.

Cheers
Balfizar

[meanmachine72]

dealer number 877..is LOCKHART HOLDEN GOLD COAST QLD..est 1961

info gleaned from a 3 owner xu-1 which still had the dealer sticker on back screen...
car is on AMC

cheers johnno

[Balfizar]

dealer number 877..is LOCKHART HOLDEN GOLD COAST QLD..est 1961

info gleaned from a 3 owner xu-1 which still had the dealer sticker on back screen...
car is on AMC

cheers johnno

Lockhart Holden
Cnr Olsen Avenue & Nerang-Southport Road Ashmore QLD 4214

ID 877 (Documentation 1/1/1984)
ID 892 (GMH Documentation 1/11/1994)
ID 892 (GMH Documentation 1/3/2003)

Name change to Surfers City Holden (5/1/2004)

Peter Lockhart Motors Pty Ltd The owner of (Lockhart Holden) tried to sellout to Zupps in 2008 but GM-H successfully block that
in the QLD supreme court. It is now owner by SCHQ Pty Ltd.

Currently Surfers City Holden Cnr Southport-Nerang Rd and Olsen Av
Ashmore, Queensland
4214
http://www.surfersci...den.com.au/home

I would "Hazard" a guess that ID 877 was Peter Lockhart Motors Pty Ltd in the 60's and 70's
but its only a guess!! I think "Lockhart Holden" came in in the 80's, there was less entity names/trading names in those days.

Can you confirm "Lockhart Holden" in the 60's and 70's?

Cheers
Balfizar

[meanmachine72]

dealer sticker on back screen says established 1961..good info you got there balfizar

[Bazza]

dealer sticker on back screen says established 1961..good info you got there balfizar

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[yel327]

Anyone worked out who dealer 827 is circa 9/76?

[Balfizar]

dealer sticker on back screen says established 1961..good info you got there balfizar

Dave Lockhart Motors 70 Nerang Street Southport (presumably Peters brother)
Must have been where peter started as Lockhart Motors before he moved and left it to Dave setup as a as a used car yard.

Cheers
Balfizar

[Balfizar]

Anyone worked out who dealer 827 is circa 9/76?

827 WA KALGOORLIE KYLE MOTORS P/L (kalgoolie) 1/1/1949 1/10/1994 114 Boulder Rd

need to have this confirmed. (Update confirmed in 1/11/1994 GMH documentation as 827) now all we need is to have it confirmed back to 1949 or at least covering the torana period.

Cheers
Balfizar

Edited by Balfizar, 09 May 2011 - 03:00 PM.