512 replies to this topic

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Keep digging we'll find the truth.

ck1971.

G/Day ck1971 (Don)

The following information has been collected from the Holden LC, LJ Vin disc, The cams rules and the cams homologation paperwork. I believe the information below to be fact rather than fiction :


From January up to August 1972 Holden produced a total of 600 LJ XU-1,s. These 600 LJ XU-1,s covered H2-3 Eligibility (200 required), Homologation 3/3V (200 required) and Homologation 1/1V (200 required). I believe the 200 LJ XU-1,s built from around mid May to the end of July 1972 to be the first of the Bathurst run. The 200 Homologation 1/1V cars.


From August up to the change of Vin (82911J to 8D11PC) in October 1972 Holden produced a total of 500 LJ XU-1,s. These 500 8th and 9th month 1972 plated LJ XU-1,s covered 50% of Homologations 2/2V and 4/4V (200 required) and Homologation 5/5V (300 required). This may explain why only 200 of the 500 LJ XU-1,s had sprintmasters fitted, plus the fact Holden would of only had around 200 sets by this time. These self locating sprintmasters are dated 6/72.


From October (8D11PC) to the end of December 1972 Holden produced a total of 306 LJ XU-1,s with the required minimum being 200 to complete Homologations 2/2V and 4/4V. This may also explain the second batch of 11/72 dated self locating sprintmasters. Why 306 when only 200 were required ? I put this down to demand. After all we know what happended in October 1972 dont we.................



To me this makes sense !!!!!!!!

Fact or Fiction ? Ill leave that up to you............

What do ya think ck ?

If any one wants a complete list of the 1406 LJ XU-1,s built in 1972 simply PM me your email address and they will be forwarded on to ya..............

B.

[meanmachine72]

bruce..
i have just finished counting cars do you agree to this count????
From the 19/1/72 till till the 16/5/72 adelaide built 169 xu-1s
from the 20/1//72 till16/5/72 brisbane built 231 xu-1s thats 400 in total

From 17/5/72 till 4/7/72 adelaide built 103 xu-1s
from 17/5//72 till 28/6/72 brisbane built 97 xu-1s...thats 200 in total
and i also believe the bathurst run of cars started on the 17th may 1972 (brisbane) and
on the 18 may 1972 at there adleaide plant..................

Edited by meanmachine72, 29 September 2008 - 05:00 PM.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

^^^^^^^^^Totally agree with the count Johnno (meanmachine72) but do we count from completion date or order of vin ?

The initial batch of 200 (1/72, 2/72) H2-3 cars are clear

The next batch of 100 is clear, 50 each plant (50% 3/3V)

Then the next 300, 150 each plant.....

Completion Date or Vin ?

It is odd that from the 17-5-1972 till the end of July they completed 200, the same day the new head was cast, the E172...............

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

^^^^^^^^ Pinpointing exactly when the 1/1V cars began may prove a little difficult, but im sure it will happen one day.



The next major batch of cars were built in the months of August & September with a few being completed in October. These cars are plated 8/72 & 9/72 with a total of 500 being built.

H243361 - H250907 (250)
L210096 - L216000 (250)

It is my belief that only 200 of the 500 cars would have been fitted with the sprintmaster rims.
50% 100 cars Homologation 2/2V
50% 100 cars Homologation 4/4V
As only 200 cars 50% of Homologations 2/2V & 4/4V were required at that point in time and the fact that Holden may only of had 200 sets available.
This is a excert from a Nasco News Bulletin dated September 1972. This was sent to me by Steve (Bathurst72) THANKS Steve Also a excert from the 1972 cams rules in reguards to wheels.





The other 300 cars would have been built to cover Homologation 5/5V. Through a lot of research and through a lot of the guys telling us about their 8th and 9th month 1972 plated LJ GTR XU-1,s previously in this thread. A SPECIAL THANKS to those guys. I have come to the conclusion that these 300 cars were basically identical units.
No Sprintmasters
No XJ Camshaft
No Race Springs
No Lightened Flywheel
Though i have certainly found proof to suggest that 100 of the 300 were equipped with the 3.55 diff ratio. A excert from the cams rules in reguards to diff ratios.



There are no specific rules governing camshafts, springs and flywheels in the 1972 cams rules only that needed to have been built. I think the only cars to recieve these 1972 Bathurst specs (XJ Camshaft, Race Springs & Lightened Flywheel) were the race cars and by Holden building they were well within the rules..............

[nzxu1]

So all this must mean then that there isn't now and there never was the existance of a............ " 1972 bathurst GTR-XU1 torana " . It's all just been a big urban legend for 30 something years . :(

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

My Summary :

82911JH221242 to 82911JH238742 328 Units
82911JL193821 to 82911JL206360 272 Units
Total 600 Units

200 H2-3 Eligibility
200 3/3V Track
200 1/1V Detroit Locker

These 600 cars are ADR plated 1/72, 2/72, 3/72, 4/72, 5/72, 6/72, 7/72



82911JH243361 to 82911JH250907 250 Units
82911JL210096 to 82911JL216000 250 Units
Total 500 Units

100 2/2V Sprintmasters (50%)
100 4/4V Track (50%)
300 5/5V Cam, Springs, Flywheel & 3.55 Diff Ratio

These 500 cars are ADR plated 8/72, 9/72



8D11PCH252162 to 8D11PCH260511 150 Units
8D11PCL218389 to 8D11PCL223345 156 Units
Total 306 Units

100 2/2V Sprintmasters (100%)
100 4/4V Track (100%)

These 306 cars are ADR plated 10/72, 11/72







bathurst-racer : (Quote)
I'm going to have to crawl under my car and check the numbers and parts mentioned in this thread and see exactly what i have.
(End Quote)

Yes.


nzxu1 : (Quote)
So all this must mean then that there isn't now and there never was the existance of a........... " 1972 bathurst GTR XU1 torana ".It's all just been a big urban legend for 30
something years. :(
(End Quote)

This would depend on your view to what a Bathurst XU-1 is. To me a Bathurst XU-1 (Production Variant) is a car that was built to homologate a certain part for the race teams. This did,nt always mean that the production variant recieved these racing components, just that a certain amount of road going variants needed to be built to allow the race teams to use these new parts. ie : If the race teams wanted a new part 200 road going variants needed to be built. At the end of the day the XU-1 Torana was all about Motor Racing and winning races, NOT you or I enjoying our Sunday drive in these GIANT KILLING little beasts.........
Over the past 30 something years there has never been a car with more bullshit spoken and written about it. Now has come the time to learn the truth and throw all the myths and bullshit out the window. This has only now been do able thanks to the release of the VIN DISC............

Long live the XU-1...........

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

My Conclusion :

After years of research i have come to the conclusion that no (Production Variant) fire breathing 1972 Bathurst XU-1 has ever exsisted. Its all just been another one of those urban Myths. I own a Adelaide built 08/72 LJ GTR XU-1 myself and have spoken to many other owners of these cars. Some have been kind enough to tell us about their cars in this thread, some have allowed me into their homes and garages to view and talk about their most prized possession. In all i,ve spoken to and viewed around 30 8th and 9th month 1972 LJ GTR XU-1,s and have found not one shread of evidence that any of these cars were ever sold fitted with these so called 1972 Bathurst Specs, however im pretty confident in saying that some (Not All) had the sprintmaster rims fitted to them, around 200 (Even though 400 were required) and around 100 did recieve a 3.55 diff ratio.
In total Holden built 1406 LJ GTR XU-1s in 1972 (According to the vin disc) with a minimum of 1300 needing to have been built to satisfy C.A.M.S.
It is my opinion (And only my opinion) that the Bathurst run of cars began with homologation 1/1V (Detroit Locker) on the 17-5-1972 (E172) and finished when the last of the cars rolled of the production lines in December 1972. A minimum of 900 were required to satisfy C.A.M.S. with a total of 1006 being built. The extra 106 cars im sure were due to demand after Peter Brock and the Holden Dealer Team defeated the mighty Flord Falcon GTHO Phase III at Bathurst in 1972.
Some may view this as a whole load of rubbish or bullshit, some may view it as the truth.........
Ill leave that up to you to decide

B.

[Bazza]

Hi Fly

Since it is you that has done the research, put in all the hard work and correlated the data - it is now up to somebody to prove you wrong. You should now present your work through one of the car magazines.

Cheers

Bazza

Edited by Bazza, 09 December 2008 - 02:30 PM.

[Kockum]

Holden appears to have used some General Motors (USA) option codes
for example --- (G) - for diffs, (J) for brakes , (M) for transmissions
anything --- P --- that I found refers to wheels , wheel trim rings - hubcaps and tyres

HERE IT IS --- P48 --- SPECIAL CAST ALUMINIUM KNOCK OFF WHEELS
A mere coincidence ? I doubt it

D.

[meanmachine72]

that will make bruce happy!!!! well done

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Hi Fly.

While you make a convincing argument about P48 being the RPO for Sprintmasters, gtr_xu1 also has a good point about all broadcast sheets having 55R rims & CPL wheel trims, whether they have P48 or not.

I have many lists with early option numbers (back to HK) & none have P48 on them. However all the numbers in the part of the list (e.g. P32, P50, P51, P52, etc) relate to spare wheels, tubeless tyres or tyres with tubes. Most wheel RPO numbers have two letters & one number (e.g. PH6, PC1, etc.)

I'm still of the belief that Sprintmasters were fitted post-production in a holding yard, before delivery to the dealerships. It's only anecdotal, but back when they were new, this what I was told by guys who used to transport Holdens interstate.

RPO A22 is a non-tinted laminated windscreen.

Dr Terry.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Hi Dr Terry

Of the 3 1972 broadcast sheets we know of :

1 : Above
2 : Jamies (gtr-xu1)
3 : Micks (barodaxu1)

2 have the code P48 and both have 5(175 SR 13 RADIAL PLY) Tyres. The one without the code P48 has 5(B70H13 4 PLY H-HIGH PERF. BLACKWALL) Tyres. So with the information that has been supplied, is it safe to assume that code P48 is tyres and not rims (Sprintmasters) ??? I have been told that tyres were available as an option but dont know weather this information is correct. Im assuming it is ???

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Sorry guys, im leaning towards P48 being the option code for radial tyres. Before we can confirm or deny this 2 questions must be answered :

1 : Has anyone got a broadcast sheet that has P48 on it that isnt a 8th or 9th month 1972 LJ XU-1 ?

2 : What tyres were standard fitment on the sprintmaster rims ?

Anyone got any answers to these 2 questions..............

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

Hi Fly,
The very original looking tyre I'm still using as a spare is a Goodyear Supersteel 70 G800+S BR70H13 Polyster radial. I think its one of the tyres which came with the car from new.
Mark.

Have you checked the dates on your sprintmasters yet and are they the self locating type ?




(6/72) (11/72)

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

^^^^^^^ Dont worry to much about me bathurst-racer, im sure the answers will come eventually. Im glad some of your questions have been answered though......

Fly.

[Kockum]

I contacted CSA yesterday and asked about P48 wheels. Apparently P48 now indicates a wheel with a positive offset of 48mm. It is not related to any Production Option Code.

Some Tyre Stuff

Taken from an LJ Sales Brochure:

GTR & XU1 - "B70H13 tyres are fitted to 5.5" wide wheels (belted bias and radial ply tyres are optional)."

From the 1973 LJ Tyre placard (Part No 9930027ND)

5.50JJ - 6.00JJ - B70H13

4.50JJ - BR70H13

6.00JJ - Hard to tell because it is a bit faded but looks like DR or QR70H13

4.50JJ - 5.50JJ - 175HR13


D.