Now were talking !
What is a 72 Bathurst XU-1?
Started by
_ck1971_
, Jan 17 2007 06:17 PM
512 replies to this topic
#51
FLY_AGAIN_XU-1
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Posted 30 January 2007 - 04:45 PM
#52
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Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:28 PM
I think this was only for the 73 bathurst cars only, This thread is starting to get interesting.And concerning identifiable tips re: Specials. This was submitted by LC/LJ NUT of Melbourne in May 2003 on this very forum.
Run hand under lip of guards. The Bathurst models have had the edge lipped up to accomodate wider tyres..both front and back.
Lift the bonnet and check the welds up the gutters on the side. The Specials have a heavily spot welded shell for strength.
May Help!!
#53
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Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:21 PM
Interestingly I have been following the genesis of those great Big B 72 Specials ( XU1) and all I have found is no facts and lots of disinformation. The Fly and CK's thread has done enormous confidence to the owners of those 72 halcyon models that sadly the 73 owners feel don't have any credentials.You don't get to 73 without the modifications done in 71-72. I have read that the 3.55:1 diff was the template for ' 72 Specials ' but my research has found that not to be so.
Without the spec sheet from 72...we are all in a quandry and the mystery of the 200 odd XU2's shells puts an interestinging angle on the whole debate.
To Ck and Fly...great work and to all the 72 homologation owners...we could be sitting on a piece of Australian motor racing history that was lost in the Muscle Car scare of the late 70's
Without the spec sheet from 72...we are all in a quandry and the mystery of the 200 odd XU2's shells puts an interestinging angle on the whole debate.
To Ck and Fly...great work and to all the 72 homologation owners...we could be sitting on a piece of Australian motor racing history that was lost in the Muscle Car scare of the late 70's
#54
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 01:31 PM
AMENDMENT 1/1V 1/7/72 ( DIFF )
AMENDMENT 2/2V 10/8/72 ( SPRINTMASTERS )
AMENDMENT 5/5V 29/8/72 ( CAM, SPRINGS, FLYWHEEL )
This is a photo of Bondy on Sunday 6-8-1972 at Oran Park. I have,nt been able to find any pics of the 1st round of the Manchamp series on Sunday 27-8-1972 in Adelaide as of yet !
#55
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 01:56 PM
On Monday 7-8-1972 Bondy,s & Brocky,s new cars were first registered. They were finished on Thursday 3-8-1972.
82911JL210097
82911JL210098
82911JL210097
82911JL210098
#56
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 03:11 PM
Yes, Yes, Yes ck !Also bear in mind that the Bathurst cars needed to be homologated by mid September to be eligible to enter the Sandown enduro which is the traditional lead up to Bathurst.
CK1971.
Monday 11-9-1972
Qualifcation for the Manchamp series and Bathurst !
#57
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 05:33 PM
If you are talking about the lc-lj master list cd I have that myFLY AGAIN,Tuesday 29-8-72 CAMS gives the go ahead. For the production of the 1972 Bathurst LJ GTR XU-1. ( Fiv book, page 191 )
1972 LJ GTR XU-1 production figures
ADELAIDE
SEPTEMBER� � ( 157 )
� � � � { WEDNESDAY� 30-8-1972� � � � ( 1 ) }
Where does this information come from,my car was built on the 29/8/1972
does ythis mean mine was the only one built on this date?
{ WEDNESDAY 30-8-1972 ( 1 ) }
Regards,
George.
car is listed on there on page 118
P/DTE / CSER / MDL / PSN / ENG NO. / TSN / BETSBACFR
29.8.1972 / TLJ / 82911 / L210396 / P206165 / / 77403E0 0
S/DTE / SDLR / Z
11.72 / 437 / 3
also my adr plate says build date 29/08/1972
so doesn't this mean m,ine was built on that date?
mine also has a 3:55 ratio lsd diff,
regards,
George.
Edited by xu1972, 31 January 2007 - 05:43 PM.
#58
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 07:01 PM
This diff thing piqued my interest so I started going through a couple of mags I had that featured the 72 XU1.
April- May 87 Street Machine: Article' David and Goliath'
Quote: " At the usual August homolagation date, CAMS okayed Holden's 200 special ' racing ' versions. They came complete with wilder cams, light flywheel, Globe Sprintmaster wheels and improved tyres and suspension. The 72 Bathurst cars also sported a 3.55 diff, wider track, Detrioit locker option."
Australian Classic Car..March 2006. Article: 'Torana takes Off ' Page 53
Quote: " The ways in which the ' Bathurst Special ' Torana's are different from their standard XU1 counterparts seem reasonably obvious, given their moniker and the job they were built to accomplish. First of all the cars had a longer than standard diff. The standard diff was replaced with a 3.36:1 unit for one reason- Conrod Straight. No matter how well your car handles, if you're going to run with a Falcon at Bathurst, you need some legs down that big straight bit."
NOW GO FIGURE
April- May 87 Street Machine: Article' David and Goliath'
Quote: " At the usual August homolagation date, CAMS okayed Holden's 200 special ' racing ' versions. They came complete with wilder cams, light flywheel, Globe Sprintmaster wheels and improved tyres and suspension. The 72 Bathurst cars also sported a 3.55 diff, wider track, Detrioit locker option."
Australian Classic Car..March 2006. Article: 'Torana takes Off ' Page 53
Quote: " The ways in which the ' Bathurst Special ' Torana's are different from their standard XU1 counterparts seem reasonably obvious, given their moniker and the job they were built to accomplish. First of all the cars had a longer than standard diff. The standard diff was replaced with a 3.36:1 unit for one reason- Conrod Straight. No matter how well your car handles, if you're going to run with a Falcon at Bathurst, you need some legs down that big straight bit."
NOW GO FIGURE
#59
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Posted 31 January 2007 - 11:39 PM
I am so, so SORRY George when i was working out the production figures i had your car down as a 19-8-1972. The typing on the 29 was a little smugged and i stupidly took it for a 1 when it should have been 2 ( 29-8-1972 ). Yes, George your car was built on 29-8-1972. Hope you accept my apology,s. SORRY.
#60
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 12:10 AM
Theory Fan
1972 Manchamp series
3.36 Adelaide
3.55 Sandown
3.08 Bathurst
3.55 Phillip Island
3.36 Surfers Paradise
I think its all about racing. Different tracks, different ratios.
1972 Manchamp series
3.36 Adelaide
3.55 Sandown
3.08 Bathurst
3.55 Phillip Island
3.36 Surfers Paradise
I think its all about racing. Different tracks, different ratios.
#61
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 06:21 AM
Good stuff fly again...all your research will pay off i'm sure.
Just one correction on the above ratio's though....
I'd use a 3.08 at Phillip Island as well. The rest looks good.
Cheers Greg..
Just one correction on the above ratio's though....
I'd use a 3.08 at Phillip Island as well. The rest looks good.
Cheers Greg..
#62
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:25 AM
Now I look at the list again.. I'd probably swap adelaide and Sandown around as well...
So.
3.55 Adelaide
3.36 Sandown
3.08 Bathurst
3.08 Phillip Island
3.36 Surfers Paradise
Would be my pick.
That's it carry on...
Cheers Greg..
So.
3.55 Adelaide
3.36 Sandown
3.08 Bathurst
3.08 Phillip Island
3.36 Surfers Paradise
Would be my pick.
That's it carry on...
Cheers Greg..
#63
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:41 AM
The 3.55 ratio was homologated on the 29-8-1972 along with cam, springs and flywheel. Just in time for the second round of the Manchamp series at Sandown Park on Sunday 10-9-1972. ( Not for Bathurst ) Fan, your car being built on the 25-8-1972 would have either a 3.08, 3.36 or detroit locker with sprintmasters. I hope this clears up your diff problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your right Greg, maybe the 3.08 would have been better suited to the Phillip Island track !
Your right Greg, maybe the 3.08 would have been better suited to the Phillip Island track !
#64
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 11:00 AM
Fly..don't be offended by my naievity...but I'm now focussed on the homolagation thing. Fiv's book states that C.A.M.S recognised the flywheel..HX cam etc on 29-8-72 and on page 37 it states C.A.M.S accepted the homolagation of the 72 Specials. That gave them 10 days to produce the race version for Sandown.
My ( maybe dumb ) question is ...without knowing if their changes would have been accepted, did GMH have all these parts and the engines at hand to just put them together like a maccano set or would everything have had to be engineered from CAMS acceptance.
Also these mods would have had to be tested by GMH and Firth, Tate and Co before submission.
And CAMS accepted for homologation on 31-8 yet GMH were producing these Special models weeks before...was homologation criteria the spec sheets or the finalised physical vehicle.
My apologies if I'm dumbing this very informative thread down.
My ( maybe dumb ) question is ...without knowing if their changes would have been accepted, did GMH have all these parts and the engines at hand to just put them together like a maccano set or would everything have had to be engineered from CAMS acceptance.
Also these mods would have had to be tested by GMH and Firth, Tate and Co before submission.
And CAMS accepted for homologation on 31-8 yet GMH were producing these Special models weeks before...was homologation criteria the spec sheets or the finalised physical vehicle.
My apologies if I'm dumbing this very informative thread down.
Edited by Fanxu1, 01 February 2007 - 11:01 AM.
#65
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:05 PM
Just because you bought a Bathurst Special did not mean it got Sprinties, these were optional extra, pay the dough and on they go. When I was at Tech in 82 my class mate had Orchid Metalic 73 Bathurst Special with Knibless Rims and squared off dress rims. rgds Sunburst
#66
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:21 PM
There appears to have been a lot more than 150 73 Bathurst cars as well Sunburst !
#67
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:21 PM
Appreciated Sunburst...I suppose what I'm trying to establish is which came first ..production or the C.A.M.S acceptance of the changes and then production..and did CAMS have the specs weeks before the acceptance and gave them a quick going over and a nod to GMH to begin production before the official acceptance date.
#68
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:31 PM
You have one special car there George, would luv to see a pic of the ADR Tag ?
#69
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:55 PM
Were are you George ???also my adr plate says build date 29/08/1972
so doesn't this mean m,ine was built on that date?
mine also has a 3:55 ratio lsd diff,
regards,
George.
#70
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:07 PM
That's got to be it ..in the chronological development of the XU-1..
16-8-71
C.A.M.S recognises new camshaft, carburettor needles and exhaust sysytem on LC Xu1 for minimum run of 200 identical units.
1-11-71 C.A.M.S recognises new cylinder block number with the C...X prefix, new cylinder head, clutch driven plate, bigger radiator and optional gearbox ratios.
200 LC XU1's were made around August 1971...3 months before CAMS recognised mods.
Maybe the chicken does come before the egg.
16-8-71
C.A.M.S recognises new camshaft, carburettor needles and exhaust sysytem on LC Xu1 for minimum run of 200 identical units.
1-11-71 C.A.M.S recognises new cylinder block number with the C...X prefix, new cylinder head, clutch driven plate, bigger radiator and optional gearbox ratios.
200 LC XU1's were made around August 1971...3 months before CAMS recognised mods.
Maybe the chicken does come before the egg.
#71
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:56 PM
What puzzles me is that at the time of the ' super car ' scare and the V8 XU2 evolution...GM had a no race policy, which we know killed the V8 XU2.
Now I would tend to believe that the 72 Specials and the V8 XU1 would have been developing almost side by side...This begs the question..How did the Special make it through that period. It was a race car also!
The clandestine cloak and dagger stuff Re: the launching of the Specials is of interest in itself..Quote " With the Hardie- Ferodo 500 just around the corner and the adverse reaction to the ' super car ' scare, GMH were not keen to let on that it had produced a batch of 200 GTR-XU1's which were further modified to clinch the big race. So, under tight security and guarded press release, it filtered these latest ' Hot-Rod ' Torana's to Holden Dealers very quietly."
We have lost engine numbers
Conflicting production dates.
Theory: Maybe the pressures of the time drove everyone involved in getting the ' Specials ' up and runnning to do what some have speculated ' Fudge '....fast track all production of these models. Remember that GMH and CAMS has seen the XU2 unceremoniously deleted from the Australian Racing landscape...
At Easter 72, the HDT team took the V8 Torana to Bathurst for a shake down run and was 2 seconds faster than the GT- HO's. Needless to say it won effortlessly.
Nothing like a good conspiracy theory
Now I would tend to believe that the 72 Specials and the V8 XU1 would have been developing almost side by side...This begs the question..How did the Special make it through that period. It was a race car also!
The clandestine cloak and dagger stuff Re: the launching of the Specials is of interest in itself..Quote " With the Hardie- Ferodo 500 just around the corner and the adverse reaction to the ' super car ' scare, GMH were not keen to let on that it had produced a batch of 200 GTR-XU1's which were further modified to clinch the big race. So, under tight security and guarded press release, it filtered these latest ' Hot-Rod ' Torana's to Holden Dealers very quietly."
We have lost engine numbers
Conflicting production dates.
Theory: Maybe the pressures of the time drove everyone involved in getting the ' Specials ' up and runnning to do what some have speculated ' Fudge '....fast track all production of these models. Remember that GMH and CAMS has seen the XU2 unceremoniously deleted from the Australian Racing landscape...
At Easter 72, the HDT team took the V8 Torana to Bathurst for a shake down run and was 2 seconds faster than the GT- HO's. Needless to say it won effortlessly.
Nothing like a good conspiracy theory
#72
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:11 PM
Okay let's clear this bid up, in 1972 series production racing was still in existence so when GMH homologated the 72 Bathurst cars the Sprintmasters had to be included on the production car to homologate them for racing. In 73 Group C had been introduced which allowed aftermarket wheels to be fitted to the race cars so the Bathurst 73 cars didn't need to have Sprintmasters fitted at the factory. This is why 73 Bathurst cars have nibless rims.Just because you bought a Bathurst Special did not mean it got Sprinties, these were optional extra, pay the dough and on they go. When I was at Tech in 82 my class mate had Orchid Metalic 73 Bathurst Special with Knibless Rims and squared off dress rims. rgds Sunburst
The list price of a 72 Bathurst special was more than the standard XU1, I have actually seen a sales invoice for one of these cars and there were no options or accessories listed and the price was more than the standard XU1.
CK.
#73
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 06:50 PM
FLY AGAIN,
You have one special car there George, would luv to see a pic of the ADR Tag ?
Sorry,
I get what your saying now, What I meant was my adr plate says 8/72 only
obviously, but the letter from holdens says it was built on 29/8/1972 as does the lc-lj master code list.What i was trying to get across was that mine also was built on the 29/8/1972. You were stating that only one car was built on this date in adelaide and I was asking if this meant that mine was the only one built on this date.Also is this cd your talking about the same one I have.
Regards,
George.
#74
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 10:38 PM
PRODUCTION FIGURES 1972
COMBINDED ( BRISBANE & ADELAIDE )
JULY, AUGUST 200
SEPTEMBER 302 ( Give or take 2 )
#75
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Posted 01 February 2007 - 10:49 PM
Beautiful Fly....so whoever was in control of authorising the ' Homologation ' thing had a fair amount of latitude in when, where and why a said car with mods could and would race...and they had a degree of artistic licence...I.E: Never let a good story get in the way of the Truth 
Now this could add some credence to the idea that with the demise of the XU2...Maybe, led to the fast tracking of the 72 ' Special '
Now this could add some credence to the idea that with the demise of the XU2...Maybe, led to the fast tracking of the 72 ' Special '
Edited by Fanxu1, 01 February 2007 - 10:52 PM.
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