Hi Fly,
It would be great to see how many of those 50 LJ cars that were exported to NZ new, still survive out here or at least see the build numbers of those cars. 50 is not many cars eh?.
I must contact our register here. At last count there were about 16 or so but Dave our President will know.
You`ve done a lot of research-take a bow.
Best regards
Paul
What is a 72 Bathurst XU-1?
Started by
_ck1971_
, Jan 17 2007 06:17 PM
512 replies to this topic
#177
FLY_AGAIN_XU-1
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Posted 12 August 2007 - 04:07 PM
Might,nt even be 16 left here in OZ !!!! According to reports only 11 1971 Bathursts remain. Lord knows how many 1970 Bathursts remain ? Ya dont know how many SMP.s are in NZ do ya ? I,ve heard 2. Would,nt have there build dates handy ? Only pic i,ve got >>>>>>
#178
Tiny
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Posted 12 August 2007 - 04:57 PM
I have received a PM pointing me to this thread.
Firstly.
If someone does not want to share information about their car. It's their prerogative. You cannot force them, or belittle them for doing so. The reason is theirs alone and you have no right attacking them for it.
Secondly.
Please Remember to look at what you say and how it's interpreted. Some of the posts i have read come across as quite abrupt. I dont know if they were meant to be or not.
If you WANT to help out by sharing information here, Please do so, that's what were here for. If you dont, then simply KEEP QUIET.
I do not want to read any more posts bagging out particular people's vehicles because they may be this or the may be that or they may be nothing. It's not helpful to anyone.
I have had it put to me that some people think that theyre helping prospective buyers by "informing everyone that X car is a fake". By all means PRIVATE MESSAGE THEM. It's not fair on anyone to make allegations that MAY OR MAY NOT be true.
I'm sick of seeing people get the shits because others dont know when to back off. So PLEASE learn to relax a bit. If someone says something that annoys you, Either ignore it, PM them or come to a mod or admin.
Cheers.
Firstly.
If someone does not want to share information about their car. It's their prerogative. You cannot force them, or belittle them for doing so. The reason is theirs alone and you have no right attacking them for it.
Secondly.
Please Remember to look at what you say and how it's interpreted. Some of the posts i have read come across as quite abrupt. I dont know if they were meant to be or not.
If you WANT to help out by sharing information here, Please do so, that's what were here for. If you dont, then simply KEEP QUIET.
I do not want to read any more posts bagging out particular people's vehicles because they may be this or the may be that or they may be nothing. It's not helpful to anyone.
I have had it put to me that some people think that theyre helping prospective buyers by "informing everyone that X car is a fake". By all means PRIVATE MESSAGE THEM. It's not fair on anyone to make allegations that MAY OR MAY NOT be true.
I'm sick of seeing people get the shits because others dont know when to back off. So PLEASE learn to relax a bit. If someone says something that annoys you, Either ignore it, PM them or come to a mod or admin.
Cheers.
#179
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Posted 12 August 2007 - 06:04 PM
G`day Fly,
Sorry my friend but I have no idea about production numbers over here but I bet there can be less than 50 genuine LJ XU-1 cars left thats for sure.
Hard to imagine that I couldn`t give my car away 7 years ago, when I lost interest, in fact I even advertised my NOS panels and parts and no-one wanted to know me.
I gather that car numbers are kept secret in Oz, whereas its no so much a problem in NZ. Its hard to understand the secrecy but I respect owners anonimity.
Keep the faith
Paul.
Sorry my friend but I have no idea about production numbers over here but I bet there can be less than 50 genuine LJ XU-1 cars left thats for sure.
Hard to imagine that I couldn`t give my car away 7 years ago, when I lost interest, in fact I even advertised my NOS panels and parts and no-one wanted to know me.
I gather that car numbers are kept secret in Oz, whereas its no so much a problem in NZ. Its hard to understand the secrecy but I respect owners anonimity.
Keep the faith
Paul.
#180
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:19 PM
Fly , my build date 25/8/72 VIN 82911JH246328Thanks to Paul (Pete09) i think its pretty safe to say that if you own an Adelaide built LJ XU-1 between 82911JL210096 to 82911JL216000 (250) or a Brisbane built LJ XU-1 between 82911JH243361 to 82911JH250907 (250) you own a 1972 Bathurst Special. (8th & 9th month 1972 plated cars)
Confirmation (Verification) of these vin numbers provided would be nice from other forum members (To nail the vin numbers) (Bazza).
I hope in the future many forum members can write up this list of cars with the vin numbers provided (500) from there vin discs. If nothing else you will have a list of all 1972 Bathurst Specials built. The list of Adelaide built cars may just give you an insight of what happened to the 200 odd XU-2 shells. Holden pulled the plug on its XU-2 programme on Friday the 30th of June 1972. (THE SUPER CAR SCARE)
Something very, very strange took place at the Adelaide plant following the SUPER CAR SCARE of 1972.
Im sure we have alot more to discuss yet !
Seek the truth !
Believe it or not !
B.
#181
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:44 PM
To Fly Again and his mates,
I and many others have seen Daz's car, in fact I was there with him when he met with Ian Tate and I can assure you this is the re-bodied 24C car of Bonds. Additionally I was there when Harry Firth annoynced to many in the club that Daz's car was the re-bodied 24C car and captured for posterity in print in Harry's book on the HDT.
You had a question mark on the bonet pins, they are there, been filled in at some point. so far as the body is concerned i would suspect 1972 as it was already to hand when Bond rolled the car at Bathurst as the workshop print shows.
This car is a piece of history and it will be returned in time to its rightfull place for all to see, so just embrace it and stop looking for dumb reasons to question the car. I would go so far and this is what Ian Tate believes, that outside of the No1 car this is the most genuine HDT car left, the body is still all original with all the 24C running gear, the recently sold 28C car is not reflective of anything in particular, with several owners after Brock, a number a crashes, replaced panels etc who knows what it is, in fact the 28C car didn't have wide wheels and webbers so it is not a true reflection of the 28C car.
Mars
I and many others have seen Daz's car, in fact I was there with him when he met with Ian Tate and I can assure you this is the re-bodied 24C car of Bonds. Additionally I was there when Harry Firth annoynced to many in the club that Daz's car was the re-bodied 24C car and captured for posterity in print in Harry's book on the HDT.
You had a question mark on the bonet pins, they are there, been filled in at some point. so far as the body is concerned i would suspect 1972 as it was already to hand when Bond rolled the car at Bathurst as the workshop print shows.
This car is a piece of history and it will be returned in time to its rightfull place for all to see, so just embrace it and stop looking for dumb reasons to question the car. I would go so far and this is what Ian Tate believes, that outside of the No1 car this is the most genuine HDT car left, the body is still all original with all the 24C running gear, the recently sold 28C car is not reflective of anything in particular, with several owners after Brock, a number a crashes, replaced panels etc who knows what it is, in fact the 28C car didn't have wide wheels and webbers so it is not a true reflection of the 28C car.
Mars
#182
Bathurst72
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 06:19 PM
Hi Bruce, got under car today and checked the dates.
Engine - 11H2.
G/box - H102.
Diff Housing - 21H2A.
Diff cent - H142.
Ratio 3.36
If the car build date is 8/9/72 as you said it would have the E172 head???? as the block cast is 11 August then the H252 would be too late?????
Bruce what do you think???????????
cheers
Steve
Engine - 11H2.
G/box - H102.
Diff Housing - 21H2A.
Diff cent - H142.
Ratio 3.36
If the car build date is 8/9/72 as you said it would have the E172 head???? as the block cast is 11 August then the H252 would be too late?????
Bruce what do you think???????????
cheers
Steve
Edited by Bathurst72, 13 August 2007 - 06:21 PM.
#183
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 07:08 PM
He does not speak with forked tongue...To Fly Again and his mates,
I and many others have seen Daz's car, in fact I was there with him when he met with Ian Tate and I can assure you this is the re-bodied 24C car of Bonds. Additionally I was there when Harry Firth annoynced to many in the club that Daz's car was the re-bodied 24C car and captured for posterity in print in Harry's book on the HDT.
You had a question mark on the bonet pins, they are there, been filled in at some point. so far as the body is concerned i would suspect 1972 as it was already to hand when Bond rolled the car at Bathurst as the workshop print shows.
This car is a piece of history and it will be returned in time to its rightfull place for all to see, so just embrace it and stop looking for dumb reasons to question the car. I would go so far and this is what Ian Tate believes, that outside of the No1 car this is the most genuine HDT car left, the body is still all original with all the 24C running gear, the recently sold 28C car is not reflective of anything in particular, with several owners after Brock, a number a crashes, replaced panels etc who knows what it is, in fact the 28C car didn't have wide wheels and webbers so it is not a true reflection of the 28C car.
Mars
I have been privilaged enough seen the private pictures..as the car was presented to Ian Tate...there are HDT mods done that were not done to other cars..How IT got away with the front end I have no idea...but then they ran a totally unhomologated link system on the L34 diff as well. To the knockers...put up or shut up...To Daz..all in your own good time my man...but let them dig the hole a fair bit deeper yet...then I can fill it in completely to shut them up!
R
Edited by rorym, 13 August 2007 - 07:09 PM.
#184
goxu1
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 08:02 PM
Whats the story with the 28C being sold ? Does anyone know who bought it ?
Let me guess...
Let me guess...
#185
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 08:15 PM
TO LGN347/24C -DAZ Im very sorry about what I had said I didnt realize my comment was hurtfull. It was not my intention you have a awesom torana & I was wrong to judge your originality of your car I had not seen the photos till now. If I had an original X racer I would not give out any info about it either. You do have a unique piece of history & I do regrete what was said...Sorry...Jason.
#186
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 09:15 PM
Guy's..... what we have to remember with some /most of these ex-racers is that a lot of the original bits are missing/changed over the years due to being broken or damaged through the rigours of racing.
Daz is one of the privelidged few, who is able to trace the cars history as a lot of the original gear is still in tact.
Ask yourself this... does 28C or #1 have it's original engine? Would you think that the 05 Brock hatch has it's original runing gear?Of course they don't.
We don't think any less of those cars because of the non original components. Let's just accept that they were raced and banged and pranged!
Untill recently, I was actually quite guarded about the fact that my race car is an XU1, mostly because there isn't much XU1 stuff left after 30 years of racing! That, and the beating that I will cop when the concourse guys realize that someone is racing a 1973 bathurst XU1!
But this thread and a lot of PM's I've had has convinced me that it is what it is and to just accept that.
So for me, alot of good has come out of this discussion, so for all the conflict generated, but mostly the enthusiasm. Thanks!
Now I hope I can work out who had the original log book for my car and confirm which car it was/is.
Cheers Greg..
Daz is one of the privelidged few, who is able to trace the cars history as a lot of the original gear is still in tact.
Ask yourself this... does 28C or #1 have it's original engine? Would you think that the 05 Brock hatch has it's original runing gear?Of course they don't.
We don't think any less of those cars because of the non original components. Let's just accept that they were raced and banged and pranged!
Untill recently, I was actually quite guarded about the fact that my race car is an XU1, mostly because there isn't much XU1 stuff left after 30 years of racing! That, and the beating that I will cop when the concourse guys realize that someone is racing a 1973 bathurst XU1!
But this thread and a lot of PM's I've had has convinced me that it is what it is and to just accept that.So for me, alot of good has come out of this discussion, so for all the conflict generated, but mostly the enthusiasm. Thanks!
Now I hope I can work out who had the original log book for my car and confirm which car it was/is.
Cheers Greg..
#188
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:36 AM
I"ve never seen so many experts on one thread!!!
#189
_LGN347/24C_
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:52 AM
hi all.i would like to thank lc-torana-1970/jason for your appology.it takes big kahoonas/character to publicly apologise,fully accepted ,end of issue.and thanks for the support guys.now we can move on to what this forum thread is all about........
TORANAS..........daz 
TORANAS..........daz
#190
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:06 PM
I appreciate that you have spoken to the lords that be and they have given you the nod. I am aware of that so don't get nasty on me... but when does a reshelled car become the real deal? Again not being nasty so don't blow your top. what makes a reshell legitimate... or illegitimate... ?
the million dollar question (so to speak and literally), is ... repair replace reshell rebirth recycle ?
when does the car become no longer and folklore begin? the 2nd reshell? the third? fourth?
or when hillbilly gets hold of it? or habib and his mates from the western suburbs? or harry firth? ian tate?
whether it is done now or 20 years ago?
the million dollar question (so to speak and literally), is ... repair replace reshell rebirth recycle ?
when does the car become no longer and folklore begin? the 2nd reshell? the third? fourth?
or when hillbilly gets hold of it? or habib and his mates from the western suburbs? or harry firth? ian tate?
whether it is done now or 20 years ago?
Edited by 3.0L, 14 August 2007 - 08:12 PM.
#191
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:28 PM
3.0l the answer to your question lies right here.....
What is left today is the closest we have to what they once were.
Sorry But time capsules are rare in motorsport.
Cheers Greg..
These WERE RACE CARS.........Ask yourself this... does 28C or #1 have it's original engine? Would you think that the 05 Brock hatch has it's original runing gear?Of course they don't.
We don't think any less of those cars because of the non original components. Let's just accept that they were raced and banged and pranged!
What is left today is the closest we have to what they once were.
Sorry But time capsules are rare in motorsport.
Cheers Greg..
#192
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:28 PM
hi greg, you are spot on ,^^^when these cars enter the workshop of a race /dealer team the rules are out the window in regards to comparing them to street cars.the fact that any remain is nothing short of a miracle, they are what they are ,ex race cars with a unique history,driven by legends of the sport and supported by their equally legendary crews.
a gmpa/prime shell is recognised as a legitimate/genuine car ,and on that point, at any one time HRT or FPR can have as many as 12 hand built race bodys in the pipeline,the folklore begins when that car hits the track. cheers daz
a gmpa/prime shell is recognised as a legitimate/genuine car ,and on that point, at any one time HRT or FPR can have as many as 12 hand built race bodys in the pipeline,the folklore begins when that car hits the track. cheers daz
#193
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:03 PM
and ends when it hits the wall?
doesn't this tell the tale?
now that is 24C! and its heart lives on in the car you own?
to me that sums it up, 24C deceased R.I.P. For Sale: GMH spare part shell inc EX colin bond race parts... offers
absolutely agree that these cars are unique and have and deserve a special place in history. but sometimes and often, history is just a passing memory and as much as you like it will remain that way.
I won't get into a pissing contest to see how far we could wind each other up, suffice to say i probably have wound both you and greg up. but i don't see why some people can recreate cars, and others can't -famous or otherwise
to me, and i am sure i am not the sole voice here, but it is kind of identity theft? yes/no?
it would be good to see what others think, as with the deepest respect, not having met you daz, but you and greg both have a vested interest in the argument?
doesn't this tell the tale?
now that is 24C! and its heart lives on in the car you own?
24C was scraped with only a few mechanical parts being salvaged.
you would be shocked at how much they salvaged from the wreck,IT /HF,and other former HDT crew have also verified this...daz
to me that sums it up, 24C deceased R.I.P. For Sale: GMH spare part shell inc EX colin bond race parts... offers
,all have suffered numerous drive train/ panel changes and modification upgrades,very little left of the original cars other than their shape,these cars are unique,and have a special place in our motor racing history, and not to forget the very special people that drove them,thats where they fit into the scheme of it all. cheers daz
absolutely agree that these cars are unique and have and deserve a special place in history. but sometimes and often, history is just a passing memory and as much as you like it will remain that way.
I won't get into a pissing contest to see how far we could wind each other up, suffice to say i probably have wound both you and greg up. but i don't see why some people can recreate cars, and others can't -famous or otherwise
to me, and i am sure i am not the sole voice here, but it is kind of identity theft? yes/no?
it would be good to see what others think, as with the deepest respect, not having met you daz, but you and greg both have a vested interest in the argument?
#194
sagman
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:09 PM
"when does a rebodied car become the real deal ?" -what an ineresting comment !
when skaife's cars were damaged beyond repair between rounds over the last couple of seasons and the car was' rebuilt' , reshelled in reality and wears the same race no. and livery does that make it any less the real deal than the one which first appeared, i think not.
in reality current day race teams may well use a number of cars to get through the series, it was'nt to different in those early years.
24c continued to have a race history well after the bathurst accident as a series production and a group c car as well as some rally duty.
"real deal" you better beleive it !
laz
when skaife's cars were damaged beyond repair between rounds over the last couple of seasons and the car was' rebuilt' , reshelled in reality and wears the same race no. and livery does that make it any less the real deal than the one which first appeared, i think not.
in reality current day race teams may well use a number of cars to get through the series, it was'nt to different in those early years.
24c continued to have a race history well after the bathurst accident as a series production and a group c car as well as some rally duty.
"real deal" you better beleive it !
laz
#195
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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:19 PM
it would be good to see what others think, as with the deepest respect, not having met you daz, but you and greg both have a vested interest in the argument?
I wasn't aware that there was an argument, just differing points of view!
For me, if the car is a race car and can trace it's linage sufficiently well enough to obtain a CAMS log book, or it indeed still retains it's original log books then that is proof enough of pedigree for me. This is the reason I have played down the XU-1 angle on my car for so long... no original log book and very little Xu1 running gear there. Daz's is different, he can prove lineage and the car is elligable for a replacement log book, that should be enough proof of what it is, should it not?
If it is good enough for CAMS (governing body of motorsport) and the provider of homologation then it is good enough for me.
That said........... I see where you are coming from.
But, these cars are unique as RACERS NOT STREET CARS, that I feel is the major point of diffeence.
Cheers Greg..
#196
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:31 AM
The history of a vehicle determines how it is accepted .The history of a vehicle determines what it"s worth. Many so called genuine XU1"s are considered genuine ,by the owners because the the previous owner (seller) told them so,and no one can prove its not. But now with the disc and more knowledge about date codes and of course the Forum ,the true identification of vehicles is getting better Whether right or wrong this story gets told that many times that owners start to believe it themselves.That is why history and paperwork are so important .Or do we accept only unrestored vehicles as genuine, unless a full history can be established .Restored vehicles may look great, but really ,who knows what your getting if it doesn"t have RELIABLE history. With such a PROVEN HISTORY why would anyone not love this car .The words of BIG ALS ARMY have been etched in my brain '' ACCURATELY IDENTIFY ''no matter what it is.
#197
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:54 AM
To 3.0L,
What you need to remember is that at the time HDT embarked on their Bathurst 72 assault they had 3 Prime Bodies, it was a matter of chance as to which was prepared as Brocks and which one was Bonds. After Bathurst they simply took the wrecked 24C to the factory and transfered what they could to the HDT prepared spare Prime body. No one is saying this is the Bathurst car, its an HDT re-bodied 24C that continued as Bonds race car that is all, no smoke screens or mirrors.
You have a strong argument with any re-bodied car but those running race teams had available from GMH bosies built specifically for these teams and stamped Prime and white in colour, there could have been any number in stock at GMH just ask any of the old GMH workers in Adelaide.
I raised the point about the 28C car, its history after Brock is very eventfull just see what happened to the car at Bathurst in 1974 when it was put on its roof, there would have been quite a number of new panels after that, panels that could have come from anywhere, Daz's car is a factory prepared PRIME body race car simple as that, no replaced panels etc etc, check out the HDT workshop prints there are the 3 cars, Brocks nose, Bonds wrecked car and the re-bodied Bond 24C car all together end of story.
Mars
What you need to remember is that at the time HDT embarked on their Bathurst 72 assault they had 3 Prime Bodies, it was a matter of chance as to which was prepared as Brocks and which one was Bonds. After Bathurst they simply took the wrecked 24C to the factory and transfered what they could to the HDT prepared spare Prime body. No one is saying this is the Bathurst car, its an HDT re-bodied 24C that continued as Bonds race car that is all, no smoke screens or mirrors.
You have a strong argument with any re-bodied car but those running race teams had available from GMH bosies built specifically for these teams and stamped Prime and white in colour, there could have been any number in stock at GMH just ask any of the old GMH workers in Adelaide.
I raised the point about the 28C car, its history after Brock is very eventfull just see what happened to the car at Bathurst in 1974 when it was put on its roof, there would have been quite a number of new panels after that, panels that could have come from anywhere, Daz's car is a factory prepared PRIME body race car simple as that, no replaced panels etc etc, check out the HDT workshop prints there are the 3 cars, Brocks nose, Bonds wrecked car and the re-bodied Bond 24C car all together end of story.
Mars
#198
Tiny
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Posted 15 August 2007 - 06:17 PM
Just a quick one to say thank you for the way you guys are DISCUSSING this topic!! I know it's an emotive one, and thanks for going about it in a well mannered way!
Cheers
Cheers
#199
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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:50 PM
Agree Tiny...probably the best discussion I have seen/been involved in on the forum..some emotion but not getting over the top...just good points of view...
I have a similiar problem with ex race bikes of significate value...we crashed them..replaced frames...forks...wheels...when does the bike stop being not the original bike?..never I say if it was used right up to the end, as the vehicle of THAT rider/driver....Do you see what I am saying or did I miss the point?...If it finished in 1973 with Colin Bond/Mick Doohan as the driver/rider...entered by HDT/Yamaha ...that was still THE car.../ Bike......or did I miss something?
R
I have a similiar problem with ex race bikes of significate value...we crashed them..replaced frames...forks...wheels...when does the bike stop being not the original bike?..never I say if it was used right up to the end, as the vehicle of THAT rider/driver....Do you see what I am saying or did I miss the point?...If it finished in 1973 with Colin Bond/Mick Doohan as the driver/rider...entered by HDT/Yamaha ...that was still THE car.../ Bike......or did I miss something?
R
#200
FLY_AGAIN_XU-1
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Posted 02 October 2007 - 12:20 PM
There were 200 8/72 plated cars built to homologate the sprintmaster rim (Optional)
There were 300 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the 3.55 diff ratio, cam, springs & flywheel (Of these) :
There were 100 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the 3.55 diff ratio (Optional)
There were 200 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the cam, springs & flywheel
( JP216 to JP222 )
There all on the vin disc
L210096
L216000 (250)
H243361
H250907 (250)
B.
There were 300 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the 3.55 diff ratio, cam, springs & flywheel (Of these) :
There were 100 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the 3.55 diff ratio (Optional)
There were 200 9/72 plated cars built to homologate the cam, springs & flywheel
( JP216 to JP222 )
There all on the vin disc
L210096
L216000 (250)
H243361
H250907 (250)
B.
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