418 replies to this topic

[axistr]

G'day Keith,

 

I currently have both standard & variable ratio power steering rack kits in stock.

 

Lenny. 

[axistr]

G'day Nathan PM sent.

[Bigfella237]

G'day Steve, first post, welcome aboard!

 

I'm not sure if anybody does a complete 'kit', axistr (above) made a batch of steering rack conversions, which I believe were 'bolt-in', although I can't remember now if the steering arms needed a reem to match his tie rods or not (and I'm too lazy to search).

 

You still need to supply your own pump / lines / etc., but he would be able to tell you exactly what to buy depending on what engine you have.

 

Hopefully he will see the replies in this thread, but if you're in a hurry maybe send him a PM (hover over his user name above, then click on the "Send Message" button in the popup).

Edited by Bigfella237, 08 October 2017 - 10:19 PM.

[madmax]

Talk to Lenny at axistr just received mine a couple of weeks ago using harrop arms they cost $440
Lenny reamed them for free you need to send them to him and he will send them back with your steering
kit and a list of instructions very helpful top bloke and easy to deal with

[axistr]

Thanks for the feed back guys. Just to clarify a few things. The most often asked question I receive is "do I still make power steering kits" It seems when I posted over four years ago that I may stop making kits many readers stopped reading the thread any further to the part where I posted due to demand I would continue. Maybe one of the moderators could remove these posts within the thread to stop the confusion.

 

1) The answer is YES I still make power steering kits. I generally have both standard and variable ratio power steering kits in stock.

 

2) Yes the kit is a direct bolt on. The power steering rack comes bolted to a mounting bracket which bolts to the two original K-frame bolts. Also supplied in the kit is a steering shaft adaptor that bolts to the original rag joint and splined to suit the power rack input shaft. No modifications are needed to your steering column. The kit also contains the two compact hydraulic hose fitting ready for quick connection of the supply and return hoses. Over the years I have supplied kits to owners of A9X, who liked the idea that should they ever part with the car they could remove the power steering and no one could ever tell it was there.

 

3) I always recommend sending me your steering arms. It seems the preferred method of removing old tie rod ends is with a large hammer. After forty odd years of these steering arms in service its common to see many with distortion and oval tie rod tapper holes. I also come across steering arms that need the hole depth set to ensure that when the castle nut is tightened the split pin hole is aligned. I check and if needed machine the tie rod hole tapper free of charge to ensure the installer has no hassle's when fitting the kit. I like to make sure the instillation is straight forward and simple.

 

4) I generally don't supply the power steering pump, bracket or hydraulic hoses in the kit. There is just to many combinations to try and cater for. Moreover, there are so many Toranas with different or modified engines and accessories drive systems, glimmer drive, non standard A/C, electric water pumps, non standard alternators, serpentine belts, chrome pumps, black pumps and the list goes on and on. For Torana owners with a stand configuration 253/308 engine I make new power steering pump mounting bracket to suit the common Saginaw pump as fitted to Holden's HQ-VT. This will allow the owner to retain the original alternator and brackets as standard no mods required to the original accessories drive. Both of my Toranas run power steering and A/C.  Yes it may need a bit of thinking but can be easy overcome but using parts from later model Holden compressor brackets. The most common conversion these days is the LS1 and around 40% of kits now supplied are for cars with this engine. Using all the original accessories drive system from a commodore is the way to go and can be sourced very easy.

 

For those that find it to difficult to use a belt driven pump, electric pumps can be used and have been sourced from Holden Astra, Mercedes bens c180 and Toyota MR2. so there are many choices.

 

It was nice to walk around  and see over a dozen Torana's at Toranafest recently with the Axis power steering. Thanks to all the customers that have purchased a power steering kit and support over the years.  

 

I hope this has cleared up a few commonly asked questions, and if the demand is there I will continue to make power steering kits.

 

Many Thanks,

 

Lenny.

        

[axistr]

I was looking around on the net today and noticed this advert for power steering to suit HK-HG Holdens.

Just have a look at the angle of the tie rod bar angling towards the rear. As I have always said it shouldn't be all about lighter steering, it should be more about better handling with the added feature of power steering. They also list a conversion kit for a Torana, but looking at the photos  it looks like it needs a bit of mucking around to get it to fit. Also its too big around the rotary valve to get it to sit in the sweet spot without suffering the same problems as this rack would have. Obviously a good knowledge of steering and suspension geometry wasn't on the agender. As they say buyer be ware.

     

 

[ozyozyozy]

😳 Yeah that looks like an ugly setup lenny.

[HDT166]

do you have any kits left lenny?

[HDT166]

looks like the angle of that steering is obviously not attached to the steering column so wouldnt be a good indication on the correct angle.

I think the kit looks neat , i wonder how it performs?

the retro rack looks like another good alternative , im trying to make a decision on which kit to get 

[axistr]

looks like the angle of that steering is obviously not attached to the steering column so wouldnt be a good indication on the correct angle.

I think the kit looks neat , i wonder how it performs?

the retro rack looks like another good alternative , im trying to make a decision on which kit to get 

 

Its the angle of the tie rod bars that concerns me the most. Tie rod bars pointing towards the rear so much would have a terrible at best toe out on turns angle. 

 

I'm not here to bag any opposition, Aaron I would be asking the question on ball joint centres, this will make a massive difference in handling. Some kits out there are a one rack suits all, and a multitude of different vehicles that they list the same rack for. (very hit and miss). One kit in particular has more than 160mm difference in inner rack ball joint centres, 100mm narrower per side than the original Torana manual rack. Yes you will have a light to steer Torana but that's not what it should all be about. My aim was better handling and had the added bonus of lighter steering.     

[bat 53]

i find that the aim of mounting a rack on anything 

is to mount it in the right position 

on conversions that i do i mount an unshortend p/s commodore rack on a hr front end 

which is fully engineered with blanket approvel for early holdens fx hr 

[axistr]

i find that the aim of mounting a rack on anything 

is to mount it in the right position 

on conversions that i do i mount an unshortend p/s commodore rack on a hr front end 

which is fully engineered with blanket approvel for early holdens fx hr 

 

!00% correct bat 53 but as a base line or starting point in my opinion. The forward and aft position has a major effect on the toe out on turns. There is always a sweet spot to put the rack in. Unfortunately the Torana and most Holden's of the era have very poor toe out on turns. The LX-UC RTS Torana at best only had 1/2 degree toe out on turns at 20 degrees of turn, no where near enough. If you move the rack forward 12mm on a Torana you will get toe in on turns like a LH & HQ Holden. I would hate to guess what the toe out on turns would be on the rack in the photo above, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised at figures of 10-20mm toe in at 20 degrees turn. The amount of sudden understeer going through the tighter bends at speed would be frightening. And this is only one angle in the steering geometry. In my experience engineers look more at clearances, materials used and fixtures and not the actual geometry unless its very obvious by eye.

 

The inner rack end ball joint centres are also very important. If the horizontal plain of the rack and tie rod bars are all in line and the suspension travel is less than 25 mm (that's not going to happen) then there will not be much change in the bump steer curve. But if the rack ball joint centres are wider each side by 25mm and you move the suspension through 150mm of travel then the bump steer curve could suddenly give you 10-15mm of toe in or out. Again hitting a bump or rut on one side and the car suddenly steers to one side before you know it. I can remember wheel aligning a new Nissan Navara 4X4 back in 2002. From ride height I lifted the front of the vehicle but tyres still on the turntables and the alignment machine indicating 14mm toe in. Throughout the suspension travel the Navara bump steer curve in the straight ahead position was 28mm thanks to Nissans steering design team. Given the right conditions incorrect steering geometry can be outright dangerous, not to mention a pig to drive every other time. And how about the cost of the extra tyre ware.

 

To get good handling and predictable steering the inner rack ball centres need to intersect with a line between the top and bottom inner control arm pivots. Obviously moving the rack up or down to find the sweet spot is the way to go, but if the inner rack ball centres are out ( longer or shorter) then mounting a rack to the sweet spot can cause an incorrect angle to the outer tie rod ends. The height of the rack inner ball centres above the lower inner control arm pivot has to match the same height as the outer tie rod end and the lower control arm ball joint centre.

 

And that's only two angles that an incorrectly mounter rack can effect, there is much more to the story when you start getting involved. You can have the perfect setup then we put wheel alignment shim stack in the top control arms and straight away we have just moved the geometry enough to make a difference. I know its a common to fit HQ stub axles to the front ends of our Toranas, but doing so can make the car handle worse. The king pin inclination is less than the standard stub by 2 degrees and getting good wheel cambers and casters during wheel aligning can be imposable. Not to mention fitting the correct steering arms to correct for the 25mm in spindle height change. The original A9X stubs would have had the correct KPI to compensate for the change. Its very easy to get carried away and buy all these aftermarket goodies but in reality the end result can be steering geometry that is worse than the original setup which wasn't all that good in the first place. Do your home work or ask the question before you hand out your hard earnt cash.

 

I hope I haven't confused everyone, steering geometry can be a hard thing to explain in text but I hope for some you maybe somewhat better informed.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Lenny.        

[claysummers]

Think you’ve explained it pretty well Lenny, consequences being varying and possibly unpredictable understeer, and bump steer which I was already aware of. Just don’t start talking about playing with roll centre as you will probably lose me there.


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[bat 53]

no worries Lenny 

half of what you said i don't understand 

i've being doing these conversions for approx 20 years 

the engineer i used at the beginning was Martin Simms who was the number 1 at dpi 

he said that the position i mounted the rack was spot on 

probebly more ass than class but it is spot on 

when i mount the rack on the job i'm doing i'll put a photo up

 

cheers  bat   to me that photo it looks completley wrong

 

 

Edited by bat 53, 23 April 2020 - 08:14 PM.