418 replies to this topic

[axistr]

Thanks Evan there is a lot to think about and thanks for the input. I will need to look into this part of the power steering system very closely. Maybe we might have some forum members that might be able to advise us. Or do we have any members that work in the legal side or insurance company reps. Any input would be of great help.

Thanks Axistr.

[ls2lxhatch]

It may be worth talking to Blacks Racks or RRS.

[enderwigginau]

How about we start with a list of every required piece with pics, before we get a how to in the articles

Cheers dudes,
Grant..

PS. Like the tiny "this item is not for street use" labels on some products, I don't think you'd be liable, so long as none of the mods performed failed.

[axistr]

Hi Grant, The old saying nothing happens till somthing happens, many years ago I was on a charge from the police because a ute I did a rego check on was involved the next day in a crash and the driver was killed. The next morning the cops and R.T.A went for me like a rat up a drain pipe, to cut the story short they charged me before doing a proper inspection saying the ute had lost it's brakes and went through a stop sign and was struck by a truck. We insisted in viewing the vehicle as it was one of the company utes and the boss at the time said we needed to remove any contents, we found the ute lost it's brakes after the crash due to the brake line been torn from the chassis as a resault of the accident, when the report was released two months later they found that the driver was five times over the limit and had speed in his system, at that time the driver had the highest amount of drugs in his system ever recorded by the police, they very quickly droped any charges so did the R.T.A and the investigation team was draged over the coles. I wounder what would have happened if the Boss and myself didn't do that inspection. So you can see why I take this type of mod with causion. I could loose everything I have so lets work out the best solution for us all.

I didn't take any photo's of the internal mods I did on the rack or post them up on the forum not because I wanted to keep it a secret but I didn't whant someone to copy it and do it wrong, F**K it up and cause an accident, we are playing with steering here not just putting on some mirrors or fitting shift lights. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but this is reality, in this day and age someone allways want's to sue you.

Axistr

[axistr]

Thanks for the comments guys I am looking into the best way to attack this problem and will get some info from my insurance guy and engineer who will sign off on the steering mod. If I supply kits or take orders I will only do six kits at a time to keep the price and labour costs down. If I put them through my buisness the cost of insurance should come down as I already have most of the cover, I will have to add product liability only. I have to do one power steering conversion for a friend some time if the near future but I will be doing it all in my workshop including the fitting. If I take any more on the owners my decide to purchase the rack and pay upfront for the adaptor and rack overhall parts ect and the balance when delivered. I don't know if other states will accept the engineers report from N.S.W. My engineer is a R.T.A signatery. At this time if I do the conversion I would prefer to do them at my workshop including the wheel alignment to make sure the job is carried out correctly. When the kits are ready to go it would only take 1-2 days to install but this will depend on the type of engine and p/s pump type the owner wants. We carry out repairs on large fleets of trucks so I need to do them at my own pace other wise I would loose my bread and butter.

Still lots to think about but I am trying to sort thing out to keep everybody happy.

Axistr

[Joshua]

say you sold me a kit.
i'd have to install it and then get it engineered.

if i then crashed, and the steering had something to do with it
the spotlight would surely be on the engineer for approving an unsafe modification

and if i didn't get it engineered then i'd be to blame for having an illegally modified car?

or is that a to logical way of looking at it

[axistr]

I spoke to my engineer yesterday and he said that he would be able to do the paperwork for the power steer rack and mount bracket assembly, which can then be sold as a kit. The kit can then be installed into any LH,LX,UC but MUST then be engineered as a whole conversion on that vehicle before the vehicle is driven on a public road in any state. I am not sure about the finner details for other than N.S.W states as I only deal with the R.T.A and they seem to be the hardest to get things through or get any sense out of.

P.S Car and power steering going great and have clocked up around seven hundred km in it so far.

AXISTR

 subaru_rack.JPG   326.02K   87 downloads

[enderwigginau]

Any idea of cost yet, or will you be taking orders first?

Grant..

[axistr]

Enders, it is a real hard one to cost out as so many torana's have differant engines and pully belt setups, electric water pumps or gilmer drive so it may be a case of car by car price, and you can get a second hand rack one week for $250 then 350 the next. it depends who has what at the time. And it depends what the owner wants, flash polished pulleys and pump or just stock black steel v pulley and pump, and how quick they want the system done, pushing one through one off quickly will cost heaps more as I would have to stop doing truck repairs and do a rack at $88.00 per hour rather than sloting six through when the workshop is not so busy so reducing costs.

How ever just to put some very rough figures together. rack $250.00, reco rack $290.00, rack mod $500.00, steering column adaptor $350.00 est.
supply brackets and cradle mounted to bolt directly onto subframe $450.00 (plus engineers report no cost at this stage)

Note; fitting or power steering pump bracket belts or hoses not included.

To fit the rack only and wheel align vehicle est 4 1/2- 5 hours but is car dependent.
as the torana is over 30 years old now you just don't know what problems you might come up against, bent or worn out parts, extractor clearance ect, ect.
it shits me at work when I give someone an est for repairs on thier car or truck and when we strip it down we find the problem is far worse then the expected, I ring the customer and advise of the extra work or parts needed and he yells down the phone telling me we will have to do the job at the same price and it's my fault, derrr that's why we give estimats because my x-ray vission is not as good as it used to be and the old crystall ball is broken and no one will FU**ING repair it. Sorry about the bitch session there but I will not give quotes that I carn't see through the phone line. ah I feel better now.

Wow it adds up quick.

Axistr.

[76lxhatch]

Considering that's cheaper than a decent brake upgrade I'd think you wouldn't have too much trouble selling at that price. Obviously its not a huge market and that's an issue with timing and trying to work in bulk but I guess that most people undertaking significant mods have longer time frames! I think you're on the right track leaving the pump assembly completely out of the equation.

All in all great stuff, hope the conversion is still performing well in your car too.

[axistr]

76lxhatch, I gave a bloke a very rough price on a power steering rack assembly a few weeks ago at a car show, he was hassling me to do one on his SLR500 after seeing mine. After about half an hour I finally give him an estimate of around $3,800.00 drive a way and he just about fainted saying he only spent $3,000.00 doing his new interior. I told him good luck driving his new interior. Then he asked me could he mesure and copy my system and save him self some cash, in the end I said I would do the coversion for free but the information will cost you $6,800.00. and he recon I didn't know what I was talking about.

I just don't get it, what are these dick heads thinking of, get it wrong and cut corners it could cost your car or life.
I'am glad you think the price is good value, believe me there is heaps of work involved and I spent around 300 hours sorting mine out plus parts, add that one up in dollar value.

Lhover, I have done around 1,200 km so far and the hatch is driving excellent. I'am running 245x14" on the steer and have no tram tracking or bump steer what so ever, better than expected. As said previously I would like to give it a bit more caster but because of extractor to control arm mount clearance this is not possible on my car with out changing to UC control arms. The steering gives good feed back but I only have around 3/4 deg positive caster, with 3-4 deg it would give slightly more of a heavy feeling that I like. Don't get me wrong it's not too light it's just that I like that heavy weighted feeling that you get in the mercs, beamers and VE commodore's. It's like driving a vn or vs commodore power steering. I have changed the alignment setting twice now to see what effect it has on the handeling and will change it again in the next few weeks and play around just to see what happens. Steering is very direct and the rack is variable ratio so it is great on the freeway.

Axistr.

[76lxhatch]

Thanks for the info on how its going so far. I didn't realise that you were still using LX control arms, I agree it definitely would be interesting to know what its like with 3+ degrees of caster as I guess that's the whole reason for going power steer!

I guess some people don't think its very cheap when they compare to other vehicles with factory power steering options that are simple to convert. 10 pages of this thread shows that a Torana is not so simple.

[Evan]

all comments above correct.
You put in the hard work and 3.8k is reasonable concidering that is drive away. Also concidering all your hard work that you have put into it.
Good to hear that it is still driving well for you.
Keep us updated if you start producing the brackets and parts for purchase to do this conversion.


Evan.

Edited by Evan, 17 April 2009 - 08:25 AM.

[enderwigginau]

Sounds good.
You may want to talk to someone about registering your design though, as has been said, we don't want anyone cutting the heads off your daisies!!

Grant..

[axistr]

Thank's for the feedback guys, I don't mind giving out my information on how to do the setup, but it wasn't untill I finished the project that I realised how someone could come unstuck doing this type of conversion, and if that happened it cauld stuff up the power steering on torana's by the authorities for good or worse harm someone. So for now I will continue to keep testing for durability and make sure there are no faults with the conversion. I would like to throw on the UC control arms which I have on the spare cradle assembly just to see the differance but this would mean pulling out the engine cradle assembly. After doing the full restro on the hatch I'am just not that keen on doing so just yet.


Axistr
Len

[rodomo]

Off topic but I think you would be the man to ask?

I attended an XF Falcon today and you could flick the steering gently with one finger, let go of the wheel, and the wheel would power steer it's self to lock.

Then you could gently flick the wheel the other way, let go of the wheel, and again it would power steer to the other lock.

The car was stationary.

Would this be a control valve issue in the box?

[axistr]

Rodomo, I would think your diagnosis was spot on, I would go for the contol valve to. was the vehicle on the ground ? if so the control valve return spring may be damaged.

Axistr

[rodomo]

Yes, on the ground stationary.

You mean the twisty reaction plate thingo on the shaft inside the box?

That's what I thought and related to the member.

The member thought the steering was broken till I pointed out that the wheels were actually turning.

He drove the car last night, parked it in the driveway and it was like this when he went to drive it this morning.

I've never experienced this fault with P/S in 35yrs.

Edited by rodomo, 17 April 2009 - 09:54 PM.