418 replies to this topic

[Evan]

your the man AXISTR.

Ev

[Toranamat69]

Axistr, Good work finding the Outback rack - that is a good option being shorter than the other subi racks - I may have to fall back on that yet.

How does variable rate power steer feel to drive? Can't say I have ever driven a car with that in it - not that i was aware of anyway.

Anyway where I got to with mine before I got tied up with heaps of other things in life was I thought I was all ready for the measure of what I thought was the 'final' geometry setup on my test bed but the first measurement I did came up a fail so I have to rejig before going further.

I set up the rack/tierods and steering arms so they are all in a straight line when viewed from the top as this is how the Torana is originally set up but when I measured it, the ackerman angles were terrible, it was only slightly better than parrallel steering. It seems these front ends are very sensitive to how far forward and back the rack is mounted which is what Grant was illuding to on the previous page.

I am going to swap to UC steering arms as they are a few mm longer than the LH ones I have on there at the moment and also move the rack back at least another 3 to 5mm.

The above would be my main concern with the setup you are trying to do with no mods to the subframe - this is where the CRS/Cortina conversion one was a crap setup, they wanted a rack they could just bolt on to the Torana subframe and make it work - everything does work, except the turning circle sucks because the huge Cortina rack needed to go back a lot further to achieve a good turning circle.

A check of how it all lines up when viewed from the top is a good guage to what you have achieved before actually taking any measurements.

Who did you get to cut the steering shaft spline? I may have to do something similar to make mine fit - although my plan was to swap out the whole steering column for a subi one with the tilt mechanism and use the uni, intermediate shaft and rag joint from a subi to connect everything all togehter.


M@

[enderwigginau]

and after the rest of the fibreglass, how much Torana will be left??

Grant..

[enderwigginau]

[axistr]

Hi Matt,
good to hear from you I thought the gypsy's had got ya, My Hatch is aprox 1 1/2 lower than standard height which gives me a straight line between the tie rod ends, bars and rack, so I will stick with the standard LX stubs and arms at this stage. On my test mule(bench subframe) I recon the subaru outback rack will be within 3-4 mm so I hope I will get it very close to the factory toe out on turns which we know wasn't real good from new, but I don't plan on doing u turns all day either. I have HX front disc rotors and calipers which gives me just a little more room around the Tie rod end and steering arms, If I am able to cold bend the steering arms in or out slightly this will give me more or less toe on turns, how much is the trick.

As for the variable ratio It's the first time I have strip one down so it's a bit new for me to. In the photos I posted if look closely you will see the rack teeth changes angle from straight cut to helical cut on the ends. The input pinion gear is also helical cut and you would think the straight cut section wouldn't mesh correctly but it does, when it starts to change the angle of the teeth on the rack shaft from straight to helical the input ratio also changes. If I have it all correct it should give quicker turn in as it gets closer to full lock. (I THINK) I will do some more checks on this part and let you know.

I have changed the mounting position of the rotory valve to give me more room around the rack to subframe which gets me very close to the position of the standard torana rack position. I have also taken 17mm out of the outer aluminium rack housing to set the rack to dead centre, the main rack shaft has not been cut or welded but I did have to machine 1 1/2 extra helical cut teeth on one end to get the correct travel in both directions. I also have the choice of increasing or decreasing the amount of travel by machining a spacer to alter the required amount, If I need more wheel cut I will reduce the stop washer thickness.

As for the steering input shaft adapter I had one made out of 4340 steel billet and looks simular to the standard torana except the splines are to suit the subbie input shaft spline so it will mate up to the standard rag joint. I will be using the rubber joint wich I thing is from the HZs rather than the rag joint from the torana and the o/d is slightly smaller which is a real plus for me as I'am running 1 7/8 extractors and it's very tight arount that area. I will try and take a photo of it and post it up.

Hope this helps AXISTR.

[enderwigginau]

As above ^^



Grant..

[axistr]

Hi Grant, I don't carry a camera around all the time but I took a couple of shots with the phone. the adaptor is made from EN26. I stated in my last post it was from 4340 my mistake.
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The adaptor is a direct fit from the torrie steering column to the subaru input shaft which will make the conversion just that little bit easy and will look more factory, and best of all my engineer will be happy to sign it off due to no cutting, welding or cross matching of parts.

Axistr.

[enderwigginau]

Good stuff tiger.
I like to think ahead, as when you guys finish this, everyone will want to know how.

Joint is LC/J.

How much for one of those adaptors?

Grant..

[ls2lxhatch]

I do not know what the diameter and spline count of the Subaru steering rack is but you may be able to do something similar to the setup was going to run with my TF Cortina power steering to try and reduce the space taken up by the rag coupler.

You can replace the steering shaft in the Torana column with a HQ-WB steering shaft. This gives you a 1"-48 spline instead of the cotter pin. Once you have a 1"-48 spline on the column you can use the following parts from Flaming River. They are reasonably priced if you buy from the US.

FR1886 Flaming River vibration damping universal joint 1"-48 / 3/4"-36.
FR1870-4 Flaming River 4" fully splined 3/4"-36 shaft which can be cut to length.
FR1922 Flaming River Chrome Moly universal joint 3/4"-36 / 3/4"-36

Unfortunately even with this setup I was unable to fit the extractors on the LS2 so I returned the parts and resigned myself to going back to manual steering.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 05 September 2008 - 11:22 PM.

[axistr]

Hi Grant, The adaptor is a one off part but now the mechinest has it in his CNC machine the cost will go down, he said if I order six or more he will do them for $285 each plus G.S.T. The HOLDEN wrecker that I have been going to for the last 26 years just through the rubber joint over the counter and said have this it's off a HZ-WB, half the time he does't charge me as I look after him when he needs help with his 4x4. so it's off a LJ-LC you recon. So far he has given me the engine gradle assembly, coulpling, steering arms, stub axles ect to help setup the subaru rack, so you carn't beat 100% discount. The down side here is after 30 years he has decided to sell out and now the new owner is moving the hole shooting match over to penrith N.S.W (BUGGER).

ls2lxhatch thanks for the heads up, the standard torana lower coulpling is almost the same size I was thinking about just resplining the original coulpling but the subaru input shaft is slightly larger in spline diameter and doing so would make it just a tad small in wall thickness, so to play it safe the new coulpling was made up to suit the torana flexable joint and upper coulpling. bonus as it has more clearance not much more but it all helps.

Axistr.

[axistr]

Hi Matt. have you done anymore tests on the UC arms with the subbie rack yet, as I have been clocking up a few Klicks on the torrie the front spring have come down a bit more than I expected. As the UC armes are slightly longer and lower this may just be the best set up for me now as my tie rod bars tilt up slightly now the suspension has found it's height.

I have got to get my finger out as I pulled a muscle in my right arm on the way up to toranafest, getting old maybe.

[axistr]

I have some good news finally, I picked up the rack this week and set it up in the test engine cradle. Now I am trying the setup using some uc steering arms I picked up this week to try and get a better toe out on turns. I will post more information as they come to hand. Now the christmass rush has started, but I will try to spend as much time as I can and get this power steering up and running.

Axistr

[axistr]

I got a few minutes today for some more testing of the p/s rack I'am testing the setup with the uc steering arms and have been able to get 3deg toe out on turns at 20deg lock and full lock of 35deg, when I checked the alignment on my torrie I only got 1.75deg at 20 so It is looking like this setup may work and will keep going down this line. M@tt The varable ratio rack is slower in the centre and gets faster as it gets closer to full lock, this should be great in the torrie, Keep fingers crossed. it's looking good but still have a few small things to sort out but it can be done without any mods to the engine cradle or steering column.

Axistr

[axistr]

Chopper it's hard to get a total all up price, but so far if I purchased a second hand rack and carried out the mods and then reco the rack it would owe me around $800-1,000 depending on the condition of the second hand rack. The coulpling cost me $450.00, Tie rod end $62.00. plus nuts & bolts and some steel ect, I would est around $1500.00 for the rack ready to bolt on. Then I need the P/S pump, I will proberly use a sagnall pump off a VN v6, new around $345 including the top mounted resivour, plus the brackets and idler pulleys. I will make the mount brackets my self as my torrie is fitted with a chev, if I carn't buy any billet ones for the position I need, If I was running a holden engine I would get a P/S pump and brackets off a HQ-WB or early commodore and bolt it straight on. As for the time how can you put a price on that, I have spent around 120 hours trying to get the system to work and I will still need to spend around 80 hours still to finish it off, before I can drive it and get it signed of by the engineer and the engineers report will cost around $450.00 (being a guinnie pig has a price.) The total setup is very neat and hi-tech with variable ratio ect. All the signs so far indicate the setup should steer and handle great but as I said It still has some way to go yet, and I'm striving for perfection and want to get it just right. so now I am testing the system with differant stubs and arms to see what reading I can achieve, then doubble check everything to make sure I havent made any mistakes which is easy to do. Hope this helps.

Axistr

[ozyozyozy]

hello. axistr check out krcpower.com they sell billet p/s pumps, quality is quite good, they use an fittings, can be used with remote reservoir or pump mounted. i bought one for my setup. they are about a quarter of the weight of the commodore pumps, rebuildabe and if your not happy with the feel you can change the flow valve. cost me just under $500 landed, direct from them, i did use the wrong postage so cost me more than it should. that was for billet alloy p/s pump, remote reservoir, alloy pulley, and allow mounting bracket to suit chev.
i modified the bracket to fit the holden head, pretty straight forward job for my setup.

[ls2lxhatch]

The electric power steering pump posted in this thread would be worth investigating.

http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=25861

[axistr]

Thanks for the info guys, I hoped to get the rack fitted before xmass but it just isn't going to happen. Haven got enough time to finilise things in the next few weeks, but will try and get some more done during the break. I come against a small snag which has taken more time than I expected but I have overcome the problems and moving foward.

Len.

[axistr]

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Update,

Have finalised and made the mounting brackets, Getting close to fitting now, I will make all new steel pipes from the rotory valve to cylinder but I carn't paint and make the brackets look neat untill the engineer looks at It once again. The engineer alway slows me down. Sorry for the bad photo's but took them on the old motorolla mobile phone.

Axistr.