124 replies to this topic

[piquet]

hi guys

I think that you have missed my point. If you try and recreate series productioon cars by using modern components you haven't got series production racing as it was in 1964-1972.

It is impossible to buy a pressure plate of the original specifications as those used in series prod racing of 1971. Let alone brake components of the original specification especially pads and shoe linings. Asbesteos linings are banned just ask Dattoman.

Under the Series Production regs for a Torana it states thea the original cylinder head and block must be used. That would mean the original including part number not just a modified 161 head. They just aren't around for racing purposes as the spit and polish brigade have them on their shiny cars.

And my god people would be upset if we who race the cars kept on blowing up the special JP/CK/186X/3100x blocks and modified the 2815843 cylinder heads!!!!

How many JP XU1 heads and blocks are around now

The whole idea around NC was to as best as possible recreate the premier tin top racing of the period. This was the Australian Touring Car Championship and the Improved Touring Category. I don't care what anyone says the Series Production racing of the period was not the top level touring car racing.

To get a set of regulations that was a basis of the NC regulations that we have today took an extraordinate amount of time and discussion between the various syake holders

The regs were not written by CAMS so dont get into them. They were written by many members of the Vic,NSW, QLD, SA car clubs that were involved with Appendix J racing at the time. The regs were submitted to the Historic Car Committee who intern recomended to CAMS taht they be accepted. All this took about 2 years to happen and they have changed many times since.

If it sound like I am lecturing peolpe I apologise but I dont take kindly to people saying that we got it wrong at the time cause it doesnt fit into their ideas now.

It has always been the same that the person with the biggest cheque book in Motor Racing wins and it still is and it always will be, I doubt that there is any way to stop that. We had a guy racing at the AGP a couple of years ago that used four sets of tyres: 1 set for practice and another new set for each race. Would you ban that I know its a waste but. Look at Ferrari a reported half a billion dollars for their F1 carsfor one year, if that aint a big check book nothing is.

You can still build a car to run with strombergs and the original manifold, no extractors and come and race in NC. There are many cars running that one might call budget racing.

I can name several cars, my LC XU1 for one. There is an XT GT falcon, an XW GT, Monaro 327, a couple of V6 capri and thats just a quick list from Victoria, off the top of my head.

For example in my car I have a 186 as its an LC Torana, its a flat tappett engine,
it runs webers, no frrged pistons, no trick oiling system, no electronic ignition system, no ventilated brakes and essentially standard braking system except for really good pads and cold treated discs.

I'm no where near the fastest car out there. In fact I am regularly at the back or near the back of the grid. To me, its all about getting out there and haveing some fun and just for that fleeting moment thinking that I am almost good enough to walk in the shoes of some of our former champions.

So build the car the best that you can, with what you have got and go and race cause there will always be someone with a bigger wallet than you have and it quite often a good feeling to see them towed back and to see that you finished when they had the letters DNF next to their name on the result sheets.

cheers
piquet

[piquet]

Fine, I do get where you are coming from and respect youir opinion.

Lt would be very hard almost impossible to recreate Series
prod as technology has moved so far in the last 36 years.

My final comment on this whole thing is to remember that the"Biante" cars are no longer in the 5th (Historic) category. one of the cars have a Historic Logbook. They are now 3rd category subsection D cars. So they are effectively historic sports sedans. None of the freedoms that apply to their cars are permitted on Nc cars.
but they have restrictions on them as well. They do not get some of the freedoms/alowances that Historic cars get.

If/when the "Biante" series folds there is the distinct possibility that they would not be granted a Historic Log Book without converting their cars back to comply with the NC regulations. Now that will cost heaps.
for example to convert a Biante torana back would mean changing the diff housing as they are allowed to use a cut down Commodore, Change the trans tunnel as the std one wont accomodate a T10 Box of gears, change from Dry sump back to wet sump, change back from 12 port head to 9 port head. probably change the late model calipers back to pre 1972 callipers and so on

I suppose that what I am saying is that Biante cars have not wrecked Historics they are out on their own and good luck to them. Some might even say good riddence.!!!!

As an aside, for the Phillip Island Historic meeting next weekend there are a total of over 500 cars entered. NB was over subscribed so the V6 capri and the EH Holdens have been put up to the NC races as the NC was undersubscribed. This was done just so that all the cars ebtered would get their races

I spose that we are both right and both wrong about the whle thing
cheers
peter

I understand that Sa,Sb,Sc sports was over subscribed by about 20 cars for their grids. So numbers at Historic race meetings are not down YET.

[dattoman]

When you get to 1974 let me know

[dattoman]

Re-read my first post in this thread ( I called it Nd there)

I agree theres little incentive for anyone to be a grass roots racer unless they do it for fun
Cause there not much chance of them winning against the big boys without the big budget

I'd love to do it for me.... for fun.. and hope I get to soon

At what point do these chequebook guys forget about the fun and only concentrate on the winning ?
I've talked to alot of them at the track... you learn fast who's there to enjoy it and who's there to win
Winners may be grinners....... but they are also usually not interested in talking to the crowd , certainly not interested in sharing their knowledge of the car
And infact.. a few have no idea about their car..... someone prepares it for them and they show up and bark orders and drive

I usually know who to talk to and who to avoid at race meetings nowdays

[Racehatch]

Sounds like you guys are on to something, would be great to have a section that caters for the later torana's... I guess the question is how do we make it happen?

[dattoman]

Thats why I like the little aussie racecars
Close fun racing by the looks

V8 supertaxis bore me nowdays
If I don't get free tickets I don't go anymore

I prefer to watch the cars I gre up watching
Streetcars (when they were real streetcars) and "historics" all the way for me

[dattoman]

30 years is 1977 ..... fits fine for mine and Welbys cars

[dattoman]

Racing on the honesty system ?

C'mon Harry never did it like that .... how do you expect others to ( not saying he cheated.... just interpreted the rules to his advantage)
Everyone wants to win in the end
So you'll get your cheats and rule benders just like every other catagory

[dattoman]

Best get to building cars then

Fax me over the Sup Regs when you finish so I know I'm building it right