45 replies to this topic

[ls2lxhatch]

This is a picture of the VZ pump.

https://cache.gmh-to...ch/fuelpump.jpg

The legs are spring loader to hold the pump at the bottom of the tank. Fully compressed it is 240mm tall. The built in surge tank is the bottom section of the pump. It would be lucky to hold 400ml. (About the size of a can of coke)

The clear plastic tube is the fuel out line. There is a vent line to the charcoal cannister and a return fuel line.

[ls2lxhatch]

just curious if anyone here is understanding that any fuel fittings inside the car (including boot) are illegal for road use

What do you base this statement on. I can not find any mention in the NCOP.

http://www.dotars.go...ms_3feb2006.pdf

I personally would not fit the fuel system inside my car however half the cars on the road the fuel system components inside the car.

[hatchssv8]

GTS

There are a few variants of the VY/Z fuel pumps. Need to be careful how they are set up in a torana (with droptank)

All these fuel pumps are designed for a 'dead end' fuel system(no return line from the engine fuel rail.
All these fuel pumps are at 4 bar
Most of these fuel pumps have an inbuilt reg, (and the power jet on the pump assy will not operate corectly if there is another reg at the engine fuel rail) basically the pot of the pump assy will not fill satisfactorily

Here is the good news. The pumps can be made to sit at a lower compressed height. If you are running a 5L like me, it is possible to convert to a dead end fuel system (I will be getting confirmation soon: ie my injection system will operate at 4 bar ilo of 3 bar).

I have made an alloy ring that will accomodate the pump to the fuel tank. In my case I will also utilize the standard Torana pick-up (allows use of Torana fuel sender) with the outlet blocked off.

Absolutely no fuel lines/tanks/pumps etc will go in cabin. I have seen many that do ^^^, even in hatches.

Let me know if you need pics of what I am talking about. PM if you like

Thanks, Max

[ls2lxhatch]

The link provided to the transport site dated 3 feb 06 is a misleading publication. It is only a propasal and isnt in affect. The real code of practise is diffrent. Which efi car has any part of its fuel system other than sender wire entering the cabin?

These are the rules that are in effect for states that have adopted the NCOP. WA has adopted the NCOP. I was directed to this site by the WA technical division when I applied for permits for my modifications. They listed which sections of each document my modifications had to comply with.

http://www.dotars.go...n/vsb_ncop.aspx

Your original statement was.

just curious if anyone here is understanding that any fuel fittings inside the car (including boot) are illegal for road use

In my response I was thinking of early Holden's eg. HK sedan with fuel tank in the boot or EH waggon with fuel tank in back section with fuel lines running out of the top of the tank. Most LPG cars have the fuel system mounted in the boot.

[TerrA LX]

check everything throughly, you can have surge tanks, etc mounted in the boot so long as they are A. a sealed item and B. all the connections including fuel lines are not inside the car.

doesn't matter if its a HR or LH torana, you don't comply with car manufacture year, you comply with the standards of today, standards set in when the mod is approved if you want to get it done.

Actually i think that is about right.

Edited by ALX76, 22 March 2007 - 09:20 PM.

[turbotrana]

Having all those fuel lines in your boot will make your car reek of fuel smells. I do have a surge tank in my boot but I ended up replacing every flexible hose with steel line and only minimal fuel injection hose used where it joined the surge tank to get rid of any brain damaging fuel smells.
Also dont recirculate fuel from the injector rail back into the surge tank. All this does is heat the fuel up too much.
I dump the fuel straight back into the tank but my intank pump is good enough to supply my 044 pump via the surge tank.
I ended up mounting my intank pump via the original fuel sender but was a bit of piss farting around but worked good with no cutting. My intank pump is quite small (but flows heaps) and just fit in the original hole.

[turbotrana]

I also should have also stated, most hoses will permeate fuel chemical odours thru them. Proper fuel line is VITON lined that stops this to a large degree but not fully. Most dont understand this and wonder why their car reeks when there a no fuel leaks.

[ls2lxhatch]

Also dont recirculate fuel from the injector rail back into the surge tank. All this does is heat the fuel up too much.
I dump the fuel straight back into the tank but my intank pump is good enough to supply my 044 pump via the surge tank.

If you do not return fuel to the surge tank then you have defeated the purpose of the surge tank. If your lift pump is sucking air due to low fuel and g-force at the return line is to the tank then the EFI pump will empty the surge tank in seconds.

This will help with the fuel heating problems.
http://www.vpw.com.a...6&PrdGrpID=2287

Connecting the lift pump to the second highest connector and the return line to the highest connector on the surge tank will also reduce the buildup of heat in the surge tank.

[ls2lxhatch]

A swirl pot is a set of baffles in the main fuel tank designed to trap fuel at the pickup. The swirl pot is fed by gravity. There are also sump systems which are similar to swirl pots.

This is an Aeromotive weld in sump.
http://www.aeromotiv...ail.php?prod=66


A surge tank is a small fuel tank that holds 1-4 litres. Typically they a tall cylinders so they are not affected by G-forces. Fuel is pumped into the surge tank by a electric pump (lift pump). The EFI pump sucks fuel from the bottom of the surge tank and returns excess fuel to the top of the surge tank. Excess fuel in the surge tank is returned to the main tank from the top of the surge tank.

Typical surge tank.
http://www.tweakit.n...products_id=126

Typically fuel is pumped by the EFI pump from the surge tank through the fuel rails to a regulator. The regulator allows excess fuel to escape down the return line. The Bosch 044 is rated at 200 litres per hour with a pressure of 5 bar. Fuel will be travelling from the surge tank through the rails past the regulator and down the return line a 200 litres per hour less the fuel consumed by the engine. That is about 1 litre every 18 seconds.
http://apps.bosch.co...s/fuelpumps.pdf

If the unused fuel is not returned to the surge tank and the lift pump is sucking air then the surge tank will run dry. If the lift pump will never suck air then you do not need a surge tank. If you need a surge tank then you must connect the return line to the surge tank.

None of the fuel systems on this page have surge tanks or lift pumps because they all use the sump or fuel cell to guarantee fuel supply.
http://www.aeromotiv....com/system.php

[ls2lxhatch]

I do not know much about NOS or NOS fuel requirements. I suggest you discuss that side of the fuel system with BOTTLEDUP ( Dave ) from A1 Hi Performance.

A1 Hi Performance
Unit 4/49 McCoy St
Myaree 6154
Western Australia
Ph: +61 (08) 9317 1915

I can show you how I am going to fit the surge tank, lift and EFI pumps to my Brown Davis drop tank.

I am not sure if you will be able to register a car in WA with a home made fuel tank. It is my understanding that the a fuel tank must have the manufacturers identification stamp and there is a list of approved manufacturers. You may want to check with the WA Technical Section.

WA Technical Section
9351 1681

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 25 March 2007 - 04:56 PM.