The load on the studs varies according to how far the nut is from the flange of the hub when it is loaded. Less load on the studs is created if the nut to hub distance along the thread is shorter......given that the wheel is otherwise unsupported at the centre etc.I am not convinced that there is any extra load on the studs. I do not see the difference between having the correct offset rim and the Commodore rim with adaptor to make it the correct offset rim. If the track remains the same then what has changed?
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The dangers of wheel adaptors!!
Started by
_rhysandhisLJ_
, Mar 18 2007 09:18 PM
62 replies to this topic
#26
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 04:58 PM
#27
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 05:19 PM
DA
I am not sure I understand your answer.
Are you saying that if the amount of thread on the disc stud protruding from the adaptor as the same as the amount of thread protruding from a standard rim then there is no change in the load on the stud?
In other words a standard steel rim with a 10mm thick hub applies less load on the stud than a alloy rim with a 20mm thick hub.
Therefore an adaptor that is 20mm thick at the point where it is bolted to the axle would apply the same load as a mag wheel with a 20mm thick hub assuming that both rims end up with the same offset.
I am not sure I understand your answer.
Are you saying that if the amount of thread on the disc stud protruding from the adaptor as the same as the amount of thread protruding from a standard rim then there is no change in the load on the stud?
In other words a standard steel rim with a 10mm thick hub applies less load on the stud than a alloy rim with a 20mm thick hub.
Therefore an adaptor that is 20mm thick at the point where it is bolted to the axle would apply the same load as a mag wheel with a 20mm thick hub assuming that both rims end up with the same offset.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 19 March 2007 - 05:22 PM.
#28
_torana_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 06:47 PM
Its not a grey area at all.
If a car didnt come out with them they are illegal. Its as simple as that.
Its not the ebay sellers fault either , as i sure he doesnt state if they are legal or not, and you put them on your car , not him. These things arent approved by the adr rules and are turned up by anyone or dodgy overseas importers. You really should think yourself lucky you didnt kill anyone cause you would be in jail at the moment for manslaughter.
Its clearly stated in all the car mod rules, but people still use them because its the easy way out.
Im not having a shot at you, but i see so many cars with them now that it scares the shit out of me. Please if anyone else is using them, piss em off, and do it properly.
cheers julian
If a car didnt come out with them they are illegal. Its as simple as that.
Its not the ebay sellers fault either , as i sure he doesnt state if they are legal or not, and you put them on your car , not him. These things arent approved by the adr rules and are turned up by anyone or dodgy overseas importers. You really should think yourself lucky you didnt kill anyone cause you would be in jail at the moment for manslaughter.
Its clearly stated in all the car mod rules, but people still use them because its the easy way out.
Im not having a shot at you, but i see so many cars with them now that it scares the shit out of me. Please if anyone else is using them, piss em off, and do it properly.
cheers julian
#29
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:30 PM
This is why you buy good quality studs! Hubs are still dodgy, but I've seen a shitload of stock wheel studs snap. My mate threw a wheel off his XA coupe the other day.
I'm also concerned with wheels not sitting on the hubs properly. On alot of the cheap shit multifit chromies for jap boxes, they come with these little metal rings that slip onto the original hub to fill the gap between the original hub and the center hole on the multifit rings. Does anyone know if you can by these off the shelf?
I'm also concerned with wheels not sitting on the hubs properly. On alot of the cheap shit multifit chromies for jap boxes, they come with these little metal rings that slip onto the original hub to fill the gap between the original hub and the center hole on the multifit rings. Does anyone know if you can by these off the shelf?
#30
_rhysandhisLJ_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 08:10 PM
Torana, i do feel extremely lucky that nor i or anyone else was injured as it would've been very serious if the wheel let go at 110. I contacted the ebay seller for a bit of information and it turns out this is the first case they've heard of the studs breaking, they didn't comment on whether or not the adaptors had caused other problems.
I don't completely blame the adaptors, i'm sure that my wheel studs (after 31 years of use) have become brittle and are in need of replacing.
They've been removed from my car now, i'll be sitting them on the shelf for now, the only reason i'd use them was if i'd want to put my car on show with commodore wheels and taking the car there on a trailer. Though i know this won't be for years as she's still in need of a good tidy up.
Picking up a new panel tomorrow for $55...
I don't completely blame the adaptors, i'm sure that my wheel studs (after 31 years of use) have become brittle and are in need of replacing.
They've been removed from my car now, i'll be sitting them on the shelf for now, the only reason i'd use them was if i'd want to put my car on show with commodore wheels and taking the car there on a trailer. Though i know this won't be for years as she's still in need of a good tidy up.
Picking up a new panel tomorrow for $55...
#31
_HB1200_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 09:54 PM
Hi Rhys,
I would consider replacing all the studs just to make sure that the other studs weren't minutes from failure as well. There are many requirements for the bolt on face of an alloy wheel, it is possible the adaptor was not engineered correctly.
HB1200
I would consider replacing all the studs just to make sure that the other studs weren't minutes from failure as well. There are many requirements for the bolt on face of an alloy wheel, it is possible the adaptor was not engineered correctly.
HB1200
#32
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 09:57 PM
LJ XU1's run spacers in the Biante series, and have this happening with a whole lot more grief than you'd ever give them. I'd say a problem, ever so slight, with the PCD (quality control/accuracy).
#33
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:00 PM
^ Actually skip that thought, different spacers, run longer studs, same stud pattern. Are yours Torana to Commodore, i.e. Bolt the plate to your Torana studs, then second set of studs come out for Commodore wheels? Now I've confused myself.
#34
rodomo
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:10 PM
My local Tyre Factory tyre store has them.Does anyone know if you can by these off the shelf?
#35
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:15 PM
Local Wheel Factory had them sitting on the shelf as well.
#36
_82911_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:28 PM
Going totally against the grain......
Would you like to sell the adapters that you are never going to use again?
As I would like a set to play around with.....
Cheers Greg..
Would you like to sell the adapters that you are never going to use again?
As I would like a set to play around with.....
Cheers Greg..
#37
_why-psi_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:35 PM
actually i read that these adaptors had a PCD of 5x108.
toranas are not metric and the PCD is actually 5x4.25"
so then when tightened, these adaptors would slightly bend the studs!
toranas are not metric and the PCD is actually 5x4.25"
so then when tightened, these adaptors would slightly bend the studs!
#38
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:40 PM
I would actually like one of these adapters for statically checking clearances for different diameter, width and offset rims. So Greg can have the other two.
As for the cause of the above incident. In my 21 years of being in the tyre industry, I have seen my fair share of vehicles with damaged studs. In most of the cases I have seen, the reason why all the wheel studs have been damaged on the one axle is due to the rim not being correctly installed. This includes loose wheels nuts and incorrectly fitting rims.
As for the cause of the above incident. In my 21 years of being in the tyre industry, I have seen my fair share of vehicles with damaged studs. In most of the cases I have seen, the reason why all the wheel studs have been damaged on the one axle is due to the rim not being correctly installed. This includes loose wheels nuts and incorrectly fitting rims.
#39
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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:55 PM
What I think is worth while remembering, is that these adapters have been selling quite well for at least two years and this is the first failure I have heard of. I am not saying people should go out and buy them. What I have been saying is that if they are properly made, there shouldn't be any problems with them. I have also always said that I wouldn't use them. I would either get custom rims made, or get the vehicle stud pattern altered to suit the rims.
#40
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 05:55 AM
Yes, I think I am saying that.Are you saying that if the amount of thread on the disc stud protruding from the adaptor as the same as the amount of thread protruding from a standard rim then there is no change in the load on the stud?
Another way to look at is: consider the adaptor and rim as just making a two piece wheel, the load on the vehicle studs depending on as stated b4 the length of thread between the nut and hub and of course the overall offset of the the wheel or the wheel/adaptor combo.
#41
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 09:57 AM
4.25" x 25.4 = 107.95mmactually i read that these adaptors had a PCD of 5x108.
toranas are not metric and the PCD is actually 5x4.25"
so then when tightened, these adaptors would slightly bend the studs!
Interesting. As I discovered with my axles, 0.05mm can make a huge difference.
#42
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 10:54 AM
I did mention "before" that claiming 4.25in was 107.95mm was folly.......
The description is 5 x 108mm not 108.00mm, do any other vehicles have pcds of 108.00mm that perhaps these adapators may have been intended for?
The description is 5 x 108mm not 108.00mm, do any other vehicles have pcds of 108.00mm that perhaps these adapators may have been intended for?
Edited by devilsadvocate, 20 March 2007 - 10:57 AM.
#43
_why-psi_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 11:54 AM
volvo is 108, lots of european cars, even Ferrari is 5x108
#44
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 12:15 PM
This is a picture of the adaptor on the rear of Rhys car from a previous thread.
https://cache.gmh-to...ch/DSCF1358.jpg
In this picture it appears that the centre bore locator has been removed from the mag side and is larger than the axle on the axle side. I think this is a Commodore axle so the hub locator is probably a different size to the Torana front disc hub.
The lack of a centre bore locator for the rim or the axle means that the adaptor can be misaligned with the axle and the rim misaligned with the adaptor. This doubles the amount of misalignment possible when compared with a rim attached to an axle without a centre bore locator.
The other possibility is that the Torana nuts loosened because they had settled into the adaptor. It would be interesting to know if the Torana studs are a snug fit inside the adaptor or a loose fit.
This picture is from eBay.
https://cache.gmh-to...atch/f2_1_b.jpg
https://cache.gmh-to...ch/DSCF1358.jpg
In this picture it appears that the centre bore locator has been removed from the mag side and is larger than the axle on the axle side. I think this is a Commodore axle so the hub locator is probably a different size to the Torana front disc hub.
The lack of a centre bore locator for the rim or the axle means that the adaptor can be misaligned with the axle and the rim misaligned with the adaptor. This doubles the amount of misalignment possible when compared with a rim attached to an axle without a centre bore locator.
The other possibility is that the Torana nuts loosened because they had settled into the adaptor. It would be interesting to know if the Torana studs are a snug fit inside the adaptor or a loose fit.
This picture is from eBay.
https://cache.gmh-to...atch/f2_1_b.jpg
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 20 March 2007 - 12:18 PM.
#45
_DocDamage_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 12:27 PM
Don't steel wheel nuts cause metal fatigue in alloy?
#46
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 03:30 PM
There should be a steel insert in alloy rims for the wheel nuts to sit. This should also be the case for these adapters.
#47
_danswheelie_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 03:56 PM
Gday fellas,
A good story about adapters!
My old man has been using a set of adapters on his hatch for years now without a hitch! Did say that he had to machine the centres slightly as they where to small and didnt sit flush.
Cheers!
A good story about adapters!
My old man has been using a set of adapters on his hatch for years now without a hitch! Did say that he had to machine the centres slightly as they where to small and didnt sit flush.
Cheers!
#48
_rhysandhisLJ_
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Posted 20 March 2007 - 09:58 PM
G'day guys,
Greg, Chopper, i don't think i'll sell the adaptors for now. I have a feeling something may be wrong with them, regarding how they locate themselves. Tonight i removed my rear wheel adaptors, after unscrewing the wheel nuts i carefully checked over the plate to see if there was any cracking or signs of fatigue.
I found shavings of aluminium (from the adaptors) sitting inside where the torana studs poke through the adaptor. This indicates to me that because of the soft metal used, the nuts gradually wore away at the metal on the adaptor and eventually would become loose. This is possibly what happened on my front wheels, i'm guessing the front wheels would be affeted moreso because of turning and such.
Oh, exactly what ls2lxhatch said, cheers mate.
As you pointed out Chopper, there should be a steel insert in the adaptors, this would prevent the wearing of the aluminium...
Greg, Chopper, i don't think i'll sell the adaptors for now. I have a feeling something may be wrong with them, regarding how they locate themselves. Tonight i removed my rear wheel adaptors, after unscrewing the wheel nuts i carefully checked over the plate to see if there was any cracking or signs of fatigue.
I found shavings of aluminium (from the adaptors) sitting inside where the torana studs poke through the adaptor. This indicates to me that because of the soft metal used, the nuts gradually wore away at the metal on the adaptor and eventually would become loose. This is possibly what happened on my front wheels, i'm guessing the front wheels would be affeted moreso because of turning and such.
Oh, exactly what ls2lxhatch said, cheers mate.
As you pointed out Chopper, there should be a steel insert in the adaptors, this would prevent the wearing of the aluminium...
#49
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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:00 AM
I am only after one adapter for fitment checks on my spare front end which sits on the bench. It will never be bolted to a vehicle.
#50
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Posted 22 March 2007 - 06:42 PM
They are the dodgiest things i have ever seen if you want to change your stud pattern do it properly they should be banned
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