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Holden 6 waterpumps

Started by _73LJWhiteSL_ , Mar 26 2007 06:34 PM

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#1 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:34 PM

Gday all,

In my quest to fix my overheating problem, I am down to testing/checking the water pump.

I have removed the water pump, and it is stiff to turn turn, I assume the bearings are shot.

My question however has to do with the fan blades.

Posted Image

I removed this one from the Torana. As you can see the blades are inclosed. There are no stampings or markings anywhere on the waterpump that I can see. I believe this to be a geunine water pump.

Posted Image

This one i just purchased. It has 'open' blades. In the past with one of these installed I had bad over heating problems (before the car was put on gas) and i believe the reason is the blades allow too much water to escape. It has 'HD1' 'GMB' and 'Japan' stamped on it with one of those date circles all located on the tube that connects to the lower radiator hose.

So can someone tell me which one of these (if either is) is the geunine one? And has anyone else has problems with aftermarket water pumps causing overheating?

Thanks

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 26 March 2007 - 06:41 PM.

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#2 REDA9X

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:40 PM

Throw the one you bought back and buy genuine. The top one is genuine, uses a cast impellor. You will find it much more efficient. I had the same drama, at higher revs it used to caviate. Make sure while you have it off the area behind the pump is not corroded away

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#3 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:41 PM

Now heres the worrying bit.... The bottom one i paid $50 from a Holden dealer... Looks like i will be retuning there tomorrow morning... :furious:

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#4 LXCHEV

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:43 PM

You are spot-on Steve, we've just been going through this too with Deb's EH.

The first type of pump you showed has the cast iron impellor... this is the factory type, and what lots of engine builders swear by, and prefer to use.

The second pic is after-market (open blade design). A lot of people steer clear of these pumps.

Couple of things I've found out recently:

There was a lot of the aftermarket type getting around that were made in India/Taiwan etc... these are notorious for not providing adequate cooling, apparently they cavitate the water.

Some people I asked however, said there are some good ones (still the aftermarket open blade type), that work well..... look for ones that are made in Japan, apparently GMB is one such brand.

We ended up finding an original new old stock Holden pump with the old school cast iron impellor, so we fitted that to her EH.

I would like to hear other people's thoughts and comments on this topic too.....

Let us know what you find out Steve.

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#5 LXCHEV

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:47 PM

Ok, more info, sorry I forgot about this... when I spoke with Holden, they said in the past, they have always sold the genuine Holden cast-iron impellor type pumps, but recently, they've stopped making them, and are now providing the crappy type ones!!!!! What a shame! Don't hold me to this, but it could be correct that you can no longer get genuine cast iron Holden pumps....

The bloke at Holden even told me that engine builders used to always buy their Holden pumps, but now they've selling the new versions, they're not selling anywhere near as many now.... there must be another supplier.... (not Holden by the sounds of it)....

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#6 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 06:52 PM

is yours small hub or the later HQ on large hub?

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#7 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:02 PM

I am pretty sure mine is the smaller hub. Theres handly any space between the block and the radiator.

The larger hub has a longer shaft on it to mount the fan closer to the Radiator right?

Steve

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#8 REDA9X

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:11 PM

Holden did swap to these a while back, but I heard recently they have had so many returned they have now gone back to the cast type. I'm sure they'd use old stock first though. Try another supplier and get a cast one.

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#9 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:23 PM

I am pretty sure mine is the smaller hub. Theres handly any space between the block and the radiator.

The larger hub has a longer shaft on it to mount the fan closer to the Radiator right?

Steve

No, the main difference is that the smaller hub the holes ane spaced closer together so a pully for a larger hub will not bolt up as the holes dont line up.
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=15030

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#10 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:24 PM

Thats good to hear REDA9X.

Have you got a part number there for me by any chance?

Thanks heaps :spoton:

ALX76 The motor in the LJ is a stock 173, So i assume is the small hub one?

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 26 March 2007 - 07:26 PM.

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#11 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:40 PM

Have you access to a HQ on red/blue/black 6 or V8, compare yours. If the holes are the same its large hub and my QH pump is not suitable.

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#12 REDA9X

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:44 PM

I think the larger hubs used on the later motors don't fit? I am sure I saw DA say this in a post. I don't think giving a part number will help, you may need to shop around auto parts stores if Holden doesn't have any. I know other manufacturers do make cast impellors.

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#13 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:57 PM

Sorry ALX76 I don't have any access to a HQ right at this moment. Might be able to have a look at a mates commodore with a black VK motor in it.

I have a funny feeling I have been told the larger hub ones won't fit. I do recall a conversation at autobarn about the small and large hub waterpumps.

Heres another pic of the front of the water pump. Dunno if you can work out small or large hub by looking at it.

Posted Image

Steve

Edited by 73LJWhiteSL, 26 March 2007 - 08:02 PM.

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#14 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:02 PM

Well if the large hub dont fit i still have this small hub one and no use for it, its yours plus postage if you are interested?

EDIT; measure hole to hole across the center and when i get home i will measure mine just to be sure.

Edited by ALX76, 26 March 2007 - 08:05 PM.

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#15 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:07 PM

I will go and see what i can sort out tomorrow with Holden, but if i have no luck i would be happy to take that water pump off your hands. :spoton:

Any idea on postage to Melbourne?

Steve

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#16 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:14 PM

post code?

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#17 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:18 PM

3805

I also measured the hole spacing, Its 53 or 54mm hole centre to hole centre straight across the middle.

Steve

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#18 WhiteA9XS

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:22 PM

the problem is the torana one has a longer shaft to go through into the fan blade , if you use the other holden 6 type like the HQ one then the shaft doesnt centralize on the fan blade as it is shorter for the spacer block , genuine cast type is the better for sure ...

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#19 TerrA LX

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:24 PM

prolly round $10.
will give exact if interested.
Cheers T.

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#20 _devilsadvocate_

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 09:55 AM

Steve, as stated by others the top type is the original type. It may be stiff to turn(none of the ones Ive installed or pulled out will spin easily on their shafts....if it aint squeaking its probably okay), but the only thing that will affect its pumping performance(provided the fan belt isnt slipping) is if the impeller blades are worn(havent really seen that myself) or the clearance between impeller and the body of the pump is incorrect. Correct clearance is 0.25-0.90mm.
I have pulled the blade type ones out of some motors and they obviously worked okay, but personally dont like the look of them and wouldnt install them in my motor. Good luck in returning it, Holden will probably claim it is able to do the job and that it reserves the right to supply parts that differ slightly from the originals provided they work etc.......
I purchased an original type from GM with GM stampings on it from the dealer in Elsternwick about 18months ago for ~$45, at the time Id rung around to several dealers and was told dont make em anymore......go to Repco etc.....so ring around. It was made in India or somewhere.......but it works and has kept working.
Hope you are replacing the pump based on some indicators it isnt working properly, other than youve tried "everything" else.

Edited by devilsadvocate, 27 March 2007 - 09:59 AM.

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#21 _Skapinad_

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:03 AM

here are the part numbers.... not sure how to load pictures, but this link should show it anyway....

My Webpage

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#22 Toranamat69

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:53 AM

But I have a SM mag here from about 10 years ago with a big write up telling us all to chuck our cast impellor types and change them for the pressed steel ones as they are much better...... you mean to say SM are FOS???

HahHaHAAHAH.....................sorry guys I couldn't help it.

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#23 _73LJWhiteSL_

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 12:37 PM

All sorted.

I return to the Holden dealer, and after I said to them it was not the same as the one I removed from my engine (which i brought in as well) I said that it looked rather like the aftermarket pumps I was offered at autobarn. I also stated I wanted one the same as mine, as last time I had one that looked like the one they supplied I had over heating problems.

First he had a go at me for saying the pump supplied was non genuine, even through I did not DIRECTLY state it was not genuine, I simply said it looked closer to the aftermarket ones than my genuine one. Then he came out with this line...

"Its in a Genuine box, therefore its a genuine part."

Never mind the fact it has KGB or BGM or something like that and JAPAN stamped on the side. And the fact the box has a little GM sticker on it and the box isn't even the right size for the waterpump.

Then he refunded my money and took the pump back.

Then I headed out to Barry Bourke Holden in Berwick.

I showed the guy there my pump and told him my problems with the other dealer. He went out back and returned with a water pump. Upon inspection it was the same as my old one. So i was picked it up off him

The part number for the one i got from the other Holden dealer is 92008366, However the part number on this one was 92008365. It cost me $66 but well its better than the aftermarket ones.

DA i am replacing the pump, as it is making squealing noises (metal on metal sound) and i don't really have $300 - 400 to replace the radiator with a bigger one right now.

The car overheats badly at idle which suggests an air flow problem, but it also overheats slightly while crusing wich indicates to me a coolant flow problem. The radiator and block have been professionaly cleaned out, the thermostate has been tested, the fan belt replaced.

Last test I will do is stick the engine fan on that one of the guys from the radiator place gave me and see if that helps, but i doubt it will do much at idle. Thats why I stuck the electric fan on anyways.

Steve

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#24 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 01:35 PM

It's a bit late for you Steve, but I found a place yesterday that sells new Holden 6 water pumps with cast iron impellors for $26. I'll be getting myself a couple of them when I have some spare cash. Hang on, I have a teenage daughter, what the hell is spare cash?

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#25 Bazza

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:29 PM

I found a place yesterday that sells new Holden 6 water pumps with cast iron impellors for $26. I'll be getting myself a couple of them when I have some spare cash.

Hi all

So Chopper - are you going to share your source??