Okay, I know that I will probably get some "just build a v8" replies, but I was after some ideas on how to build a very torquey 202...
I'm not after something with huge HP figures, but loads of torque whilst keeping a nice smooth power curve.
Where would I start? I've tried to search, but most threads just talk about trying to push as much HP as possible.
Thanks.
202 with Torque
Started by
_odie_
, Apr 26 2007 02:41 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
TerrA LX
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:10 PM
You could enquire about a stroker bottom end or"just build a v8"
#3
_dave720gtr_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:53 PM
one of the cheapest ways to get oddles of torque out of a 202 is to fit a c14 jap small supercharger there only $350 you can fit one up for under $1000 if you build your own brackets and soforth..
cheers
cheers
Edited by dave720gtr, 26 April 2007 - 03:57 PM.
#4
Heath
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:06 PM
Blue/Black 202 crank in 186/179 block. Machine main bearing journals down for 186 bearing size and offset grind stroke it.
Get some longer rods and pistons with a low compression height to fit... get a camshaft ground to suit your application, electronic distributor recurved to suit cam. Bit of head work; maybe oversized valves with hardened valve seats and a decent port & polish job. Finished off with a decent manifold & carbie setup
Oil system won't really be an issue because it won't be revving hard. Neither will roller rockers, valve springs etc so that's some money saved. It'll make serious power down low, should last for a while (not just a timebomb that will only last a few kms) and definately be a bit unique.
That might be some food for thought anyway. Good luck with the build.
Get some longer rods and pistons with a low compression height to fit... get a camshaft ground to suit your application, electronic distributor recurved to suit cam. Bit of head work; maybe oversized valves with hardened valve seats and a decent port & polish job. Finished off with a decent manifold & carbie setup
Oil system won't really be an issue because it won't be revving hard. Neither will roller rockers, valve springs etc so that's some money saved. It'll make serious power down low, should last for a while (not just a timebomb that will only last a few kms) and definately be a bit unique.
That might be some food for thought anyway. Good luck with the build.
#5
_dave720gtr_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:55 PM
And with all that ^^^ and the $$$ the c14 on a avrage engine will still have more torque 
Edited by dave720gtr, 26 April 2007 - 06:00 PM.
#6
_odie_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:35 PM
Hasn't there been talk about those superchargers and their true potential?
Plus I was hoping to keep it N/A as I currently have a GTi-R Pulsar and am WAY over having a charged motor...
Also, though I was looking at the possibility of using a 186 block, I have a perfectly good 202 block that I would like to use. Would it be easier/cheaper to use the 186 or can the same results be achieved with the 202?
Plus I was hoping to keep it N/A as I currently have a GTi-R Pulsar and am WAY over having a charged motor...
Also, though I was looking at the possibility of using a 186 block, I have a perfectly good 202 block that I would like to use. Would it be easier/cheaper to use the 186 or can the same results be achieved with the 202?
#7
Heath
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:23 PM
I talked about the N/A because not eveyone likes forced induction (or is allowed it, like in my case). Are the C14 Blowers really that good? I thought they only added like 15% power increase which isn't all that fantastic.
If I was allowed forced induction i'd be going a straight-LPG blow-through turbo setup.
If I was allowed forced induction i'd be going a straight-LPG blow-through turbo setup.
#8
FastEHHolden
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:24 PM
Those superchargers can supply enough air to make 180 Kw or 241 hp...is that enough for a red 6?
#9
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:25 PM
Could look at a different cam, think theyd be known as a towing cam.
#10
_73LJWhiteSL_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:35 PM
Correct me if i am wrong but doesn't high air speed creat more torque?
I would go the 202 over a 186 if you want torque. The longer stroke should give more torque.
Also I was planning a 202 with a mild cam and carefully ported head... as in not opened up to much, so the air speed is higher.
If my babbling needs correcting please do so!
Steve
I would go the 202 over a 186 if you want torque. The longer stroke should give more torque.
Also I was planning a 202 with a mild cam and carefully ported head... as in not opened up to much, so the air speed is higher.
If my babbling needs correcting please do so!
Steve
#11
_odie_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:37 PM
Guys, this info is great. Even though, as I said, I would like to keep it N/A, I welcome any info on charging + torque for those going down that route.
I read somewhere that it's better to have torque in the high RPM range to take advantage of gearing. Is that beneficial, or would others recommend lower RPM torque?
What defines that an engine will produce torque? Would having say, light-weight flywheel, knife-edged crank, etc (lighter parts) aid in this creation?
Thanks again for all the replies.
I read somewhere that it's better to have torque in the high RPM range to take advantage of gearing. Is that beneficial, or would others recommend lower RPM torque?
What defines that an engine will produce torque? Would having say, light-weight flywheel, knife-edged crank, etc (lighter parts) aid in this creation?
Thanks again for all the replies.
#12
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:50 PM
lightere parts will give less torque due to less enertia.
having torque up high in the rpm range is just like having a bombed motor with as much hp as possible.
hp is a factor of torque x engine speed
down low torque is what will tow a trailer for you.
having torque up high in the rpm range is just like having a bombed motor with as much hp as possible.
hp is a factor of torque x engine speed
down low torque is what will tow a trailer for you.
#13
_dave720gtr_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:57 PM
the big picture is holden 6s dont make stuff all torque with out more cubes or blower/turbo . if you want torque N/A buy a 256 hemi 
#14
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:09 PM
but may i ask, why exactly do you want a full on all torque motor odie
??
??
#15
_odie_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:14 PM
Well, I first thought it might be something different, but doing my own little bit of research as well as what you guys are saying, maybe it's not the best thing...but may i ask, why exactly do you want a full on all torque motor odie
??
I'm kinda struggling trying to figure out what I'm going to do with this 202 that will make it a little bit different.
#16
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:15 PM
Keeping it simple��.torque can be considered as the force that is achieved from each explosion in the cylinder.
It�s the product of how forceful the explosion is and how many per unit of time that will determine how much power can be made.
Typically a torquey motor is described as one that can produce good force explosions at low rpm, it makes it easier to take off from rest without having to rev the motor etc. Most motors will produce more power if the max torque is reached higher in the rev range, even if this max torque is of a lower value than the low revving motor.
Torque is nothing without rpm! A heavy man can exert 200Nm of torque pedalling a bike(slowly)��..this exceeds a lot of car engines.
Heavier components in the engine will not increase torque, they will just add friction and reduce overall torque and power. Heavier components will reduce the peaks and troughs in the torque seen with each piston power and compression stroke�..flywheel also assists in this.
It�s the product of how forceful the explosion is and how many per unit of time that will determine how much power can be made.
Typically a torquey motor is described as one that can produce good force explosions at low rpm, it makes it easier to take off from rest without having to rev the motor etc. Most motors will produce more power if the max torque is reached higher in the rev range, even if this max torque is of a lower value than the low revving motor.
Torque is nothing without rpm! A heavy man can exert 200Nm of torque pedalling a bike(slowly)��..this exceeds a lot of car engines.
Heavier components in the engine will not increase torque, they will just add friction and reduce overall torque and power. Heavier components will reduce the peaks and troughs in the torque seen with each piston power and compression stroke�..flywheel also assists in this.
#17
_LX_SS_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:18 PM
stroke is partly key to torque, other than that i would also say efi would greatly improve the ability to tune for torque
#18
Litre8
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:09 PM
If you want to stay normally aspirated then go for cubes with a stroker and then optimise the cam and induction to suit. EFI would be a help.
#19
FastEHHolden
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:19 PM
torque hasn't anything to do with time..it is force and distance....power is the amount of work in a given time.
Its simply a turning or twisting force. So by increasing the the force applied to the crankshaft (bored cylinder, super/turbo, increased compression) and increasing the stroke of the crankshaft will increase torque.
Its simply a turning or twisting force. So by increasing the the force applied to the crankshaft (bored cylinder, super/turbo, increased compression) and increasing the stroke of the crankshaft will increase torque.
#20
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:26 PM
I think the line of thought was some thing like, you can apply 400Nm of torque to a bolt, but that won't make it go fast.
#21
_why-psi_
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Posted 28 April 2007 - 12:41 AM
or there is "horsepower sells a car, torque moves a car"
#22
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Posted 28 April 2007 - 01:06 AM
Torque + High Gearing = New land speed record for a Torana. Go for it Odie
#23
_JamesB_
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Posted 29 April 2007 - 02:30 PM
"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Carol Shelbyor there is "horsepower sells a car, torque moves a car"
#24
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 29 April 2007 - 02:53 PM
I think the last two quotes as they are written do give misleading information to the masses.
Im not privy to the context in which Mr Selby's quote was given, however, I suspect that it was along the lines of just making an assessment of the capabilities of a motor based soley on its max hp figure.
Possibly something like: A peaky motor that makes most of its useable horsepower between 5000-6000rpm isnt going to be as competitive as a motor that produces possibly 80% of the peaky motor's horsepower from 3000-6000rpm, this was in the day of 4 speed gearboxes.
As stated before "torque is nothing without rpm" . The top speed or rate at which the car accelerates will be always be dependent on the quantity called power......which is the product of torque and engine speed.
Im not privy to the context in which Mr Selby's quote was given, however, I suspect that it was along the lines of just making an assessment of the capabilities of a motor based soley on its max hp figure.
Possibly something like: A peaky motor that makes most of its useable horsepower between 5000-6000rpm isnt going to be as competitive as a motor that produces possibly 80% of the peaky motor's horsepower from 3000-6000rpm, this was in the day of 4 speed gearboxes.
As stated before "torque is nothing without rpm" . The top speed or rate at which the car accelerates will be always be dependent on the quantity called power......which is the product of torque and engine speed.
#25
_runna_202_
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Posted 02 May 2007 - 12:08 AM
Bomber watson, you would know which car im talking aout, that little gemin sedan from rocky with the holden 6 in it...the bloke has a 179 bloke with a ford crank with is now 235 cubes, it has a small solid cam, tripple 48mm dellotos, trimatic and runs low 12s, the bloke recons he only revs it to 5500, you cant tell me thats now making a lot of torque, its as light a hell i spose, but still hauls.
cheers
cheers
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