Edited by Bart, 05 August 2007 - 09:06 PM.
5L into LJ/LC
Started by
_XU1-043_
, Aug 04 2007 05:28 PM
39 replies to this topic
#26
Bart
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:01 PM
hey was ur LJ down at summer nats last year?
#27
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:09 PM
oops ^thats an LC 
#28
_big_als_army_
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 10:35 PM
Why would you just post that crap? Maybe you have a reason behind it but that post doesn't explain why.yeah you cant.
in nsw anyway
The only reason you may have trouble putting an injected motor into an LC/LJ is complying with ADR's on emissions for the era of the engine block that you use. The easy way around that is to use an early red motor block with a QT or 11QT prefix and bolt the efi heads and injection gear to that block. Check the RTA website for a downloadable pdf file on light vehicle modifications. There is a simple calculation based on the car's weight to work out the maximum capacity of the engine allowed in a conversion. As stated previously, its about 312ci unless they have changed it recently.
A chassis kit is not required for an engineer's report in NSW but it should be. You need to at least seam weld the car if you're not going to run one. All an engineer wants to see is V8 front brakes, box and diff to match the V8 engine. An M20/21 or trimatic and LH V8 front brakes are the minimum and you don't need to worry about the diff as the banjo was used for V8's too although you'd want to go to a 9" or Borg Warner, etc. as you will break a banjo pretty easily. As mentioned previously, you'll also need extractors to suit, 2 x LH/LH knuckles cut into your steering shaft to clear the extractors and a High Energy or similar sump and pick up or modify an HQ one to clear the crossmember. HT/HG 253/308 mounts can be hard to come by and expensive so HQ-WB ones will do.
#29
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Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:53 AM
The motor is coming out of a VP commodore so the emissions wont be a problem, the commodore is actually an ex chaser so it goes alright.Why would you just post that crap? Maybe you have a reason behind it but that post doesn't explain why.yeah you cant.
in nsw anyway
The only reason you may have trouble putting an injected motor into an LC/LJ is complying with ADR's on emissions for the era of the engine block that you use. The easy way around that is to use an early red motor block with a QT or 11QT prefix and bolt the efi heads and injection gear to that block. Check the RTA website for a downloadable pdf file on light vehicle modifications. There is a simple calculation based on the car's weight to work out the maximum capacity of the engine allowed in a conversion. As stated previously, its about 312ci unless they have changed it recently.
A chassis kit is not required for an engineer's report in NSW but it should be. You need to at least seam weld the car if you're not going to run one. All an engineer wants to see is V8 front brakes, box and diff to match the V8 engine. An M20/21 or trimatic and LH V8 front brakes are the minimum and you don't need to worry about the diff as the banjo was used for V8's too although you'd want to go to a 9" or Borg Warner, etc. as you will break a banjo pretty easily. As mentioned previously, you'll also need extractors to suit, 2 x LH/LH knuckles cut into your steering shaft to clear the extractors and a High Energy or similar sump and pick up or modify an HQ one to clear the crossmember. HT/HG 253/308 mounts can be hard to come by and expensive so HQ-WB ones will do.
i will probably put the chassis kit in. i'm going to run a cut down commodore diff so i get 4 wheel discs. putting hoppers stoppers brakes on the front.
i need to know if the LJ has a collapsable steering colum in it? if not wich one is?
#30
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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:25 AM
There is going to be a problem with emissions if you run a complete VP commodore motor. You have to comply with the ADR's on emissions for the era of the block that you use so with a VU prefix efi block, you'll have to run all the restrictive VP pollution gear, as well as a cat converter in your exhaust system and a smaller fuel filler tube, etc. You are probably going to use the VP's TH700 so you'll need a turbo pattern QT prefix red motor block. The crank, rods, pistons, cam, efi heads, injection manifold, etc. will all bolt straight into/onto the red motor block. If you were thinking of just dumping the whole VP 304/TH700 in straight out of the VP without touching it, think again. You should get the motor rebuilt anyway so while its in pieces, just swap blocks. You can re-sell the VP block too and you'd probably get at least the same money you pay for a red motor block.The motor is coming out of a VP commodore so the emissions wont be a problem, the commodore is actually an ex chaser so it goes alright.
i will probably put the chassis kit in. i'm going to run a cut down commodore diff so i get 4 wheel discs. putting hoppers stoppers brakes on the front.
i need to know if the LJ has a collapsable steering colum in it? if not wich one is?
If you are going to use a commodore diff, use the Borg Warner one from the VP if you have access to it or any other VL-VS non-IRS one. The Hoppers Stoppers kits are pretty expensive and if you are going for 4 wheel discs, you probably won't really need one. If you just want a bolt up front brake upgrade in commodore pattern without any dramas and don't mind paying a bit for it then maybe its the go. You need to run pretty big diameter wheels to clear the Hoppers Stoppers kits too.
You don't need to change steering columns in a V8 conversion. All steering columns from HK-on are definitely collapsable maybe even EH-HR too. I think you only need to worry about this with a conversion in an FX-FC.
#31
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 08:12 PM
hi guys
just a quick question as i am doing the same to my lj. if i was to deck the block removing the engine number. 1. can you tell the late from early block? 2. if not wont they just give me a new engine number? thanks robert
just a quick question as i am doing the same to my lj. if i was to deck the block removing the engine number. 1. can you tell the late from early block? 2. if not wont they just give me a new engine number? thanks robert
#32
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 08:40 PM
You just want to grind the engine number off and get the RTA on it so you can run the VP block without any rego dramas? It can be done but it is dodgey. You actually have to take a fair amount off the deck to take the engine number right off.
#33
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:39 AM
even if you do remove the engine number if they still want to find it they can. just depends on how dodgey they think you are i suppose.
#34
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:00 AM
What about the 308/304 numbers cast into the block, surely they would need to be ground off? Hard to see at the best of times I agree but the inspectors do get right into difficult places with their lamps.
Just a thought.
Herne
Just a thought.
Herne
#35
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:54 AM
If you have the block the numbers come from sit in your shed or it's 20ft deep at the tip. Who going to come looking
#36
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 12:54 PM
he wasnt talking about restamping the block though, more getting the RTA/ POLICE to issue a new engine number.
#37
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:41 PM
The only reason you may have trouble putting an injected motor into an LC/LJ is complying with ADR's on emissions for the era of the engine block that you use. The easy way around that is to use an early red motor block with a QT or 11QT prefix and bolt the efi heads and injection gear to that block. Check the RTA website for a downloadable pdf file on light vehicle modifications. There is a simple calculation based on the car's weight to work out the maximum capacity of the engine allowed in a� conversion. As stated previously, its about 312ci unless they have changed it recently.....
....There is going to be a problem with emissions if you run a complete VP commodore motor. You have to comply with the ADR's on emissions for the era of the block that you use so with a VU prefix efi block, you'll have to run all the restrictive VP pollution gear, as well as a cat converter in your exhaust system and a smaller fuel filler tube, etc.
I agree with what you have said about putting the vn top end on an old red block to get around the emissions requirements. When I did research into putting a VS 5 litre in my LH I interpreted the rules the same way. Only problem is that there is a grey area using an old block.
A couple of years ago my nephew bought an LX with an old red block V8 with the VN injection gear, heads, manifold etc. According to the rules this combination shouldn't need an engineers certificate, no cats etc. He was pulled over by the cops several months later and defected for not having a cat fitted. He tried to explain to the cop that the engine block was the original engine fitted to the car and he didn't need cats. The cop didn't want to know, and told him his engine was modified and needed an engineers certificate. While lucky for my nephew the cop didn't hit him with the fine for no cat, he defected him for an incomplete exhaust system (or words to that effect). I had done my engine conversion a year before and was frustrated with the apparent misundertanding of the rules. I rang the RTA's technical enquiries number to try and get some clarifications. After I explained the situation, the RTA officer told me to speak to an engineer. I told him that according to the rules you don't need an engineer if the engine block was the same vintage or originally fitted to the vehicle. It was like talking to a brick wall, he told me the engine had been modified by fitting the fuel injection and an engineer would be able to tell me if it complied or not
. My nephew ended up going back to the AUVIS that blue slipped the car for the previous owner and that examiner cleared the defect without any mods made. Also he is lucky he hasn't come across the same cop, otherwise he would have to explain how he cleared the defect without fitting cats.I didn't want to babble on for too long, but the point I am trying to make is that it is still a grey area. I don't think that the emission devices associated with a VP V8 are that restrictive, unleaded fuel neck filler (all unleaded fuel now), carbon canister, pcv valve and a cat (can't recall any others). Tell them the engine is fitted with the original delco computer and memcal and the emissions gear from the VP and you shouldn't have any problems getting an engineers certificate. I used Steven Janda to approve my conversion and other modifications and my car was registered without a problem.
Edited by GMH355, 09 August 2007 - 08:46 PM.
#38
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 09:22 PM
You can also just hollow out a cat and run it like that. No one will know unless they do a real emissions test like they were supposed to introduce with all pink slips in NSW in 2003 I think it was.
I'm pretty sure when he was talking about the engine number being removed by decking the block, he really meant he was just going to grind it off. If you hit the engine number done block with a gas axe and cut the engine number off it, you can take the block to sims and get paid for it.
Not all efi blocks have '5.0L' cast into the side of them. Some have a blank panel that looks like it should have the casting there but doesn't. Due to this fact, you could grind the '5.0L' casting off the side of the block at the same time you take the engine number off, all of which is really dodgey though.
I'm pretty sure when he was talking about the engine number being removed by decking the block, he really meant he was just going to grind it off. If you hit the engine number done block with a gas axe and cut the engine number off it, you can take the block to sims and get paid for it.
Not all efi blocks have '5.0L' cast into the side of them. Some have a blank panel that looks like it should have the casting there but doesn't. Due to this fact, you could grind the '5.0L' casting off the side of the block at the same time you take the engine number off, all of which is really dodgey though.
#39
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 09:43 PM
^^ GMH355 that would probably come under the part were they say you can not modify any ADR polution part on the car, this is where you get piped for fitting a holley to a post 1976 car, so if you were to change the entire inlet and exhaust system it could be interperated as modifying the OEM system, in saying that i was under the belief that the inlet has to be as good as the ADR's of the vintage of the engine block or better.
Edited by ALX76, 09 August 2007 - 09:43 PM.
#40
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Posted 10 August 2007 - 07:58 AM
If you get someone to fit hollow cats, do you have any idea of the fine they cop if you get caught?? somewhere in the vicinity of 25 grand. we have people come in asking for them all the time and we turn them away. never know which dickhead is going to get caught with it and squeal to high heaven who put it on.
If you know an exhaust guy then it may be another story, as your friends and family are less likely to rat you out to the EPA.
There are now EXTREMELY high flow metal cats, that are ADR approved, they are about half the length of a normal cat, little stubby f*ckers. They are meant to be 50-70% less resistant (as in less restrictive to the exhaust gasses) then any other cat on the market.
do you know how much a "real" emmissions test costs, and how much it would cost to get a pink slip if they actually brought that in?? for a single emmissions test from the EPA, which is a REAL emmissions test in upward of 2000 dollars.
yes there are certain readers that do a basic emmissions test, but they DO NOT give an accurate reading. the only way they get an accurate reading is in a sealed dyno room, which is cleaned before every test. There is a whole book on the dam thing.
If you know an exhaust guy then it may be another story, as your friends and family are less likely to rat you out to the EPA.
There are now EXTREMELY high flow metal cats, that are ADR approved, they are about half the length of a normal cat, little stubby f*ckers. They are meant to be 50-70% less resistant (as in less restrictive to the exhaust gasses) then any other cat on the market.
do you know how much a "real" emmissions test costs, and how much it would cost to get a pink slip if they actually brought that in?? for a single emmissions test from the EPA, which is a REAL emmissions test in upward of 2000 dollars.
yes there are certain readers that do a basic emmissions test, but they DO NOT give an accurate reading. the only way they get an accurate reading is in a sealed dyno room, which is cleaned before every test. There is a whole book on the dam thing.
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