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Oil pickup

Started by _Bomber Watson_ , Dec 26 2007 11:33 AM

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30 replies to this topic

#1 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 11:33 AM

Hey guys, im going to an external oil pickup type setup with my 202, part of this is going to involve making an oil pickup to go in the sump.

I have looked and played around a bit with the standard holden pickups, was thiking about just cutting the pickup head off the tube and grafting my own stuff onto that, but it wont really be ideal.

Mainly cause i will be running 3/4" and -12 gear, so the standard 1/2" -8 size of the standard pickup wont be to crash hot, and i dont really have enough room to put a nice radius on some 3/4" pipe in there.

This is a quick side profile scribble i did to show what i was thinking, how would this work??

Posted Image

Now i was wondering if that would have to much of a bell mouth kinda thing.

Obviously the base will be a circle, and the sides you see there will be radiused around and come up, so it will be shaped like a funnel.

And i was thinking about using the bottom bit off the standard oil pickup, and re fabricate it from there up just to speed things up a bit. Plus it already has the mesh in it, and i assume the piece of metal it has going underneath it does something useful?

So if anyone can get through that jarbel, let me know what you reckon. work or wont work???

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 26 December 2007 - 11:33 AM.

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#2 dattoman

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 11:40 AM

Its harder to suck something thru a larger hose than a smaller one
Make sure your pump is up to it first or you will get no oil pressure

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#3 FastEHHolden

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 11:55 AM

I assume he is talking scavenge.....and what I would is beat the bottom of the sump into a bowl shape and braze a fitting into the centre of it....let gravity help you.

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#4 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 01:36 PM

Thats actually not to bad an idea FastEH. I wonder how i will go for ground clearance...

Datto: mate, i hope the pumps up to it. I just gave it to my engine bloke and said here, make this work, after i had drilled a hole in the outter plate and brazed on a -12 fitting lol. It was actually his idea to go -12, cause i was going to go -10.

Forgot to mention, the sump is a High Energy Super Pan, so there should be a fair bit of oil floating around in there and hopefully it might be under control a little bit.

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 26 December 2007 - 01:38 PM.

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#5 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 06:41 PM

What is the advantage of an external pick-up over an internal pick up?

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#6 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 08:11 PM

Mains girdle + High energy sump with crank scraper = internal not possible.

So besides FastEH's idea, does anyone have any constructive ideas on a design??

I would prefer to keep it coming out the side, as the sump sits at the same height as the x member. Would be to easy to knock the fitting off and loose a lot of oil, but more importantly loose a motor.

Cheers.

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#7 _3point3_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 08:27 PM

My next project is an original (only 1/2 rusted) V12 XJS Jag, it takes 12 Ltrs of oil in standard form! Who needs a dry sump??

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#8 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 09:25 PM

My next project is an original (only 1/2 rusted) V12 XJS Jag, it takes 12 Ltrs of oil in standard form! Who needs a dry sump??

Sad sad sad,,,, plus another 6 ltrs every time you drive it :tease:

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#9 rodomo

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 10:27 PM

Bomber, I have the "idea" in my brayn.

I will share it with you, all you have to do is about 2 years R&D and all the marketing.

In 5 years we will be smoking cigars and counting money for a living.

Deal or no deal?

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#10 _ezy_09s_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 10:44 PM

I think -12 will be too large with your stock pump..as Dattoman said larger diameter = less pressure.
Plus if you plan on making good power with the thing which i assume you are considering the main girdle+pan with crank scraper, keep in mind the 10 psi oil pressure per 1000rpm rule..so if you like keeping bearings alive & crank and rods where they belong..8000rpm say means 80 psi oil pressure
I know in the past i have had trouble trying to get enough oil pressure with the stock pump with mods.
I dont know how hard you plan on turning this engine..but i think you should have stuck with the -8 or -10 pressure lines.
Why not use a dedicated external pump like a moroso/petersen etc.. at least that way you can be sure of a better pump plus have the adjustablity externally of oil pressures..no point building a killer engine if you have the thing drop its lunch because of a poorly designed oil system.
If high energy supplied the pan you should work with them for a good solution & pickup design..
i have cut standard pickup heads off & fabricated new feed line successfully..but its your call

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#11 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 11:18 PM

Isn't there a girdle that you could use that does not hit original pick up?

Edited by gtrtorana, 26 December 2007 - 11:24 PM.

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#12 Struggler

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:19 AM

I have seen a few local dirt track 308's with a hose fitting brazed into the side of the sump and a rubber line running straight to a similar hose fitting in the oil pump. seems to work OK for them.

As for the hose size, this is on the SUCTION side of the pump ? If so I would use the larger hose diameter as the oil pump is not that much higher than the pickup. Any oil pump in good condition shouldn't have any trouble lifting oil 4 inches.

JMHO

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#13 VitcLJ

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 08:22 AM

internal pickup with high energy pan and a crank girdle is possible. Have done it here is pic of the girdle fitted an you can see the tapped hole for the internal pickup. Little bit of work needed on the main caps but fits easily and no problems with external lines.
http://s271.photobuc...nt=DSC00554.jpg
:rockon:

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#14 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 05:38 PM

Correct struggler.

It is on the SUCTION side, hence why im asking about oil PICKUPS.

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#15 turbotrana

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:51 PM

VitcLJ, how did you fit that girdle, it looks like the main caps have been modified

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#16 Struggler

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 08:18 AM

Correct struggler.

It is on the SUCTION side, hence why im asking about oil PICKUPS.

The "caps lock" on suction was not for your benefit, it was for those that tried to tell us the pressure would drop off with a larger pipe. A fluid in suction has no pressure, it is in a vacuum.

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#17 _uglybob_

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 11:59 AM

i would say turborana that the main caps hav been milled flat so the girdle sits flat onto the caps like i had done with mine.

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#18 VitcLJ

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:08 PM

turbotorana, as ugly bob said, the main caps were milled flat. it actually improves the effect of the girdle when it is bolted flat to the caps. Mind you when making the girdle you have to take into account that the clearances needed are a little wider as the girdle sits closer to the centre of the crank and that of course decreases the ange at which the crank first enters the girdle. thus more stroke is included within the girdle.

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#19 N/A-PWR

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:05 PM

Great thread heading DJ,

I always check for a thread before making a new one.

Just read that we should use a pick-up from a 308 VS or later:-

$_57.JPG

Not sure why, but sounds good, as the 308 would need more.

Edited by NA-PWR, 22 May 2016 - 09:14 PM.

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#20 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:14 PM

Why should we use that? And why is this 9 year old thread back up at the top?

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#21 N/A-PWR

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:17 PM

The 'Oil pickup' heading can have anything to do with oil pickup's,

and the VS or better was mentioned for a 202 performance engine, but didn't say why.

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#22 Ice

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:28 PM

Why should we use that? And why is this 9 year old thread back up at the top?

Because thats what Dave does best drag up old threads lol

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#23 N/A-PWR

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:33 PM

Could be that the Holden testing has evolved better than 40 year old technology?

also the fact that others have asked what height off the bottom of the sump should the pickup be (6mm, 10mm),

where this one has feet on the bottom to be the right place.

that is a great upgrade

Edited by NA-PWR, 22 May 2016 - 09:45 PM.

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#24 ozyozyozy

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 10:17 PM

ASR will build you a sump with external pickup if you ask

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#25 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 05:57 PM

Its harder to suck something thru a larger hose than a smaller one
Make sure your pump is up to it first or you will get no oil pressure

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You could run a 3" suction pipe if you wanted and the pump would pull it through just fine. All the pump cares about is the vertical lift from the oil level to the pump itself, and the friction loss in the suction line. Which is lower with a big line.

I've done 3/4" external suctions before and the pump picks it up pretty much instantly. Using anything smaller defeats the purpose.

The inverted funnel idea isn't a good one - if any part of the lower skirt becomes uncovered it'll suck air. If you want a big screen area make it flat like the factory one. I just use a simple steel tube that goes through the wall of the sump at about 45 deg and cut the inside end of the tube to the same angle so it's parallel with the floor. Then I put a round plate or washer on the end, maybe 50 or 60mm dia to prevent vortexing. I don't worry about a screen; gear pumps can handle a fair bit of crap and if there's that much in there I figure the engine is history anyway. It works well, even with just a little oil in the sump.