My rear sway bar has no bushes.
Panhard V No panhard rod.
Started by
rodomo
, Dec 30 2007 09:25 AM
206 replies to this topic
#176
TerrA LX
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Posted 10 July 2009 - 06:25 PM
#177
_rorym_
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Posted 10 July 2009 - 06:27 PM
Basically if you have seen the footage of the rear axle moving around, you will decide if it is a benefit for your application or not.
R
R
#178
Struggler
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Posted 10 July 2009 - 07:10 PM
all us group c torana guys dont run a panhard bar , w,eve tried them and taken them back off , even brocky ordered it off at philip island 06 in an a9x .
the torana rear end will bind because of the arc it travels in , a watts linkage is the only way to go if you want to go panhard but thats out of the question for us .
use quality good rubber bushes to minimize the movement , pedders part number 5820 by memory
If you recall the A9X uses the UC floorpan and trailing arm locations. The UC (and HQ) trailing arm angles offer far better triangulation and therefore do not require a panhard bar as much as the LH/X setup.
FWIW my old Group C A9X did have a panhard rod and was raced with it in position from 1977 to 1983.
#181
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 09:46 AM
L34 has LH floorpan.
#182
LhMusL
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:43 AM
Ah ok thanks Struggler, so i guess seeing i have an LH it would be wise to run one then seeing the cost isn't that much.
Any one else do a kit besides McDonald Bros??? Is theres suited to my needs???
Or is it something that can just be made up?
Any one else do a kit besides McDonald Bros??? Is theres suited to my needs???
Or is it something that can just be made up?
#183
_Squarepants_
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:26 AM
Rory, can you post a link to this footage you are refering to please?
I've looked and I can't find it.
Thanks mate.
I've looked and I can't find it.
Thanks mate.
#184
_82911_
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:27 AM
Could those who want a panhard rod or a watts link tell me why they actually want one?
What are you trying to achieve?
Give some info on the problems you are having and I will have a crack at a solution that might help.
Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind.
Cheers Greg..
What are you trying to achieve?
Give some info on the problems you are having and I will have a crack at a solution that might help.
Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind.
Cheers Greg..
#185
_brett_32i_
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 01:01 PM
;ast amc ran an article on the kmac handling kit for the lh/x?. they also added a panhard to it.
#186
_moot_
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 09:01 PM
Could those who want a panhard rod or a watts link tell me why they actually want one?
What are you trying to achieve?
Give some info on the problems you are having and I will have a crack at a solution that might help.
Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind.
Cheers Greg..
i have 5mm between the tyres and the chassis rail and want to stop the diff moving side to side
#187
_rorym_
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:23 PM
Similiar problem...I relieved the top and bottom arms a bit to counter for the binding..seems to work OK...guess its all a bit experimental.
R
R
#188
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:31 PM
A panhard rod will probably cause the diff to move 5 mm during straight line suspension travel.i have 5mm between the tyres and the chassis rail and want to stop the diff moving side to side
#189
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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:08 PM
Panhard rod or any lateral locating device will limit lateral movement of the axle assembly. However if you have only 5mm of clearance between the chassis and the tyre, then deflection of the tyre will have it rubbing on the rail anyway,WITH or WITHOUT any lateral locating arms. If it doesn't then you aren't driving it hard enough! 
The biggest change a lateral link makes to a live axle assembly is that it re-defines the roll centre for that axle
That is an important change and the reason why most race spec Torana's use them. It has little to do with limiting lateral movement of the rear axle and PLENTY to do with correcting the roll axis. Which if left at it's standard position creates plenty of corner entry understeer.
Cheers Greg..
The biggest change a lateral link makes to a live axle assembly is that it re-defines the roll centre for that axle
That is an important change and the reason why most race spec Torana's use them. It has little to do with limiting lateral movement of the rear axle and PLENTY to do with correcting the roll axis. Which if left at it's standard position creates plenty of corner entry understeer.
Cheers Greg..
#190
_moot_
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 07:47 AM
With 90/10's in the front,and front runners,I'm pretty sure it's going to understeer! I have also straightened the lower arms. With the coil overs taken out and the car set at ride height the diff would be lucky to move 1mm over the suspension travel that it will see
#191
LhMusL
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 09:21 AM
Good info greg always very informative 
I to was planning on getting a 235 or the biggest i can get in the std tub with the guards rolled and the car is sitting low, so want the diff located better so it dosen't rub to much. Due to tyre deflection and diff movement say 10mm clearance?
So because i want my car to handle on the street and when i take it to the track, wouldn't i want a lower rear roll centre as std they are to high (and i have prob made this worse by having my car fairly low), there for needing Panhard Bar as a easy???? or becuase of my setup with no fuel tank, spare wheel hump and exhaust going under the 9' is a watts link a option what kind of $$$?
I to was planning on getting a 235 or the biggest i can get in the std tub with the guards rolled and the car is sitting low, so want the diff located better so it dosen't rub to much. Due to tyre deflection and diff movement say 10mm clearance?
So because i want my car to handle on the street and when i take it to the track, wouldn't i want a lower rear roll centre as std they are to high (and i have prob made this worse by having my car fairly low), there for needing Panhard Bar as a easy???? or becuase of my setup with no fuel tank, spare wheel hump and exhaust going under the 9' is a watts link a option what kind of $$$?
#192
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:45 AM
Moot... In your case a panhard is unecessary weight. With front runners and 90/10's you don't have a hope getting around a corner at anywhere near the speed that even the manufacturer intended, so aanything that helps weight trasfer in roll is a waste of time for you.The best thing that yu can do is not let your rear upper arms get too far away from parrallel to the ground as this will induce roll steer and see the car "steering from the rear" on launch.
LH Muscle...10mm is a minimum but probably safe clearance. Honestly, if we are talking about mainly street use and your not using at least semi-slick tyres, then a panhard is probably overkill in your case as well.
A panhard on a Torana is not as simple as just "bolting one on" it therefore is a step you should only consider AFTER you have optimised all the other components and have got to the limit of mechanical grip that can be provided by springs and sway bars. At this point it is worth considering a panhard and the effect that its location has on the rear end geometry.
Cheers Greg..
LH Muscle...10mm is a minimum but probably safe clearance. Honestly, if we are talking about mainly street use and your not using at least semi-slick tyres, then a panhard is probably overkill in your case as well.
A panhard on a Torana is not as simple as just "bolting one on" it therefore is a step you should only consider AFTER you have optimised all the other components and have got to the limit of mechanical grip that can be provided by springs and sway bars. At this point it is worth considering a panhard and the effect that its location has on the rear end geometry.
Cheers Greg..
#193
_moot_
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:57 AM
my panard rod is there purely for the fact to stop the diff moving side to side.if i unbolt it,i can grab the diff and pull it side to side a fair bit. but yeah,if i did it again,i'd only do a small location bar.
a torana does need something to stop the diff moving side to side.
a torana does need something to stop the diff moving side to side.
#194
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 04:11 PM
Yes, and it has diverging upper arms that do this reasonably well untill you add sticky tyres and try to corner near the limit.a torana does need something to stop the diff moving side to side.
Cheers Greg..
#195
Peter UC
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 04:29 PM
I have a question for you Greg. I'm struggling to get a good balance with my UC. It either had good powerdown with the rear swaybar removed, but turn in understeer. So I put the rear swaybar back on and I get good turn in, but it then lights up the inside tyre easily (and I'm taliking semi-slicks with a mild 173). I don't have a LSD yet and that is the next step and to lower the upper arm mounting point. But should I look at harder rear springs without a rear swaybar first or should I look at adding a panhard bar/ watts linkage?
Oh and I'm running 730lb front springs, 190lb rears with standard swaybars with just some basic Koni reds (really want/need to get some bilsteins)
Oh and I'm running 730lb front springs, 190lb rears with standard swaybars with just some basic Koni reds (really want/need to get some bilsteins)
Edited by Peter UC, 12 July 2009 - 04:33 PM.
#196
_Gunmetal LH_
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Posted 12 July 2009 - 11:03 PM
Perhaps a thicker front swaybar?
Edited by Gunmetal LH, 12 July 2009 - 11:06 PM.
#197
_82911_
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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:24 PM
Peter, gunmetal has a good point. You could try a sway bar upgrade at the front. But for me, I would be getting an effective LSD in it first then re-test your set up and see where you are at.
I also think your front spring rate is a little low, pehaps another 100lbs or so might help. Also, your koni's wont allow this change, but if they could, some serious rebound dampening in the rear would help as well.
Rule #1 in testing..... change only one thing at a time.
Cheers Greg..
I also think your front spring rate is a little low, pehaps another 100lbs or so might help. Also, your koni's wont allow this change, but if they could, some serious rebound dampening in the rear would help as well.
Rule #1 in testing..... change only one thing at a time.
Cheers Greg..
#198
_doucmyuc_
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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:49 AM
I have a question for you Greg. I'm struggling to get a good balance with my UC. It either had good powerdown with the rear swaybar removed, but turn in understeer. So I put the rear swaybar back on and I get good turn in, but it then lights up the inside tyre easily (and I'm taliking semi-slicks with a mild 173). I don't have a LSD yet and that is the next step and to lower the upper arm mounting point. But should I look at harder rear springs without a rear swaybar first or should I look at adding a panhard bar/ watts linkage?
Oh and I'm running 730lb front springs, 190lb rears with standard swaybars with just some basic Koni reds (really want/need to get some bilsteins)
Peter id get an LSD first, and then asses how the car responds
. With extra mechanical grip on the opposite side - you might find that all of a sudden your car has a heap of great turn in, but probably not a lot of control over it. Once the LSD is in, as other have said you could balance the front end with a thicker swaybar. This would probably push the LSD to work harder again, especially seing how it understeers with a rear swaybar. Youve got a given amount of mechanical grip on the car - you just need to be able to balance it to the opposite corner Greg, why do you say the Konis would need a serious revalve? Hes not running a large springrate in the rear, so the need to control the rate of rebbound doesnt appear to be there. I would have also assumed the Koni's to be capable of handling a larger springrate? I would have thought a larger springrate up front would in essence give the Koni a little less work to do on compression rate - rebound wise i honestly have no idea how they perform or how well ther are valved for the heavy fronts on our toranas.
#199
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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:14 AM
Gah, cant edit or delete my post! Just realised its totally offtopic - i should have posted the above somewhere else or discussed in PM's! Sorry everyone.
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