No relay, no temp sender.
Can anyone here suggest a simple way of fitting and wiring up these fans to my 3 core in LX?
Many thanks,
Thermo fans
Started by
knoath
, Feb 08 2006 11:02 AM
79 replies to this topic
#1
knoath
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Posted 08 February 2006 - 11:02 AM
Got two 12 inch thermo fans given to me as is.
No relay, no temp sender.
Can anyone here suggest a simple way of fitting and wiring up these fans to my 3 core in LX?
Many thanks,
No relay, no temp sender.
Can anyone here suggest a simple way of fitting and wiring up these fans to my 3 core in LX?
Many thanks,
#2
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 February 2006 - 11:21 AM
Easy, just go get a thermo switch set from the local auto shop. Pretty sure that includes the relays, but just check, it may not. Just do a test on those leads to see if they are uni or bi-directional (wires on the battery:- Hint, don't try stop the fans with your finger, still have a split in my finger nail from when I did that.) I took power off the back of the alternator as well as the relay power. Might change the relay power to the ignition circuit, unless I go this electric water pump setup.
Looks like a Davies Craig fan, you'll need the extra black plastic clips (four in total) and fabricate a metal frame or get some radiator clips to fix em to/near the radiator.
Looks like a Davies Craig fan, you'll need the extra black plastic clips (four in total) and fabricate a metal frame or get some radiator clips to fix em to/near the radiator.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 08 February 2006 - 11:23 AM.
#3
_motive_
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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:14 PM
Temp senders are readily available, even Supercheap sell them. If its a Davies Craig fan, get a same brand sender. What u need is all the wiring / relays and crimps, ring terminals etc, these come with the fans new from Davies Craig. Id ask Davies Craig if you can buy all this, it comes with a wiring diagram paper, makes it easy and faultless.
#4
_tj81_
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 07:14 PM
Forget the thermo switches, pain in the arse fitting them to the hoses and leaking pricks of things they are.
There is available a little black box that simply plugs into a temp guage sender, with a piggyback for the temp guage. Set the desired temp with variable switch, two included for twin fans, and an AC override.
Much easier than pulling hoses off and fitting those infernal in hose switches.
Ill try and find a link for you.
There is available a little black box that simply plugs into a temp guage sender, with a piggyback for the temp guage. Set the desired temp with variable switch, two included for twin fans, and an AC override.
Much easier than pulling hoses off and fitting those infernal in hose switches.
Ill try and find a link for you.
#5
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 07:49 PM
Yes the above would be great, there was someone on this forum offering them for $80, which seemed a bit expensive.
#6
_tj81_
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 08:02 PM
$80 is about right if you dont have the inclination or knowledge to build one yourself..
#7
_tj81_
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 08:19 PM
http://www.mechanica...wtopic.php?t=83
Can get them through this guy. Hes a regular on some of the "other" forums that i frequent...
Can get them through this guy. Hes a regular on some of the "other" forums that i frequent...
#8
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 23 February 2006 - 11:54 PM
There is a temperature switch available from VDO which is the same thread size as the temperature sender that screws into the V8 intake manifold. The switch makes contact when a pre-defined temperature is reached. I use the switch to control the thermo fan's relay. A wire from the switch is connected to one side of the thermo fan's relay solenoid, the other side of the solenoid is connected to a 12V source.
I have an Edelbrock Performer manifold fitted to my 308. It has a place for it to fit, right next to the temperature sender. It was just a matter of removing the blanking fitting and screwing in the temperature switch.
The only point to note is that the switch has a pre-defined temperature and cannot be adjusted. I think from memory the pre defined temperature is around the 92-95 degrees Celcius mark. The cost ??? maybe $30-$35???
I have an Edelbrock Performer manifold fitted to my 308. It has a place for it to fit, right next to the temperature sender. It was just a matter of removing the blanking fitting and screwing in the temperature switch.
The only point to note is that the switch has a pre-defined temperature and cannot be adjusted. I think from memory the pre defined temperature is around the 92-95 degrees Celcius mark. The cost ??? maybe $30-$35???
#9
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 04:22 AM
OK, I found the part number and specs if anyone is interested.
VDO Part No. 230.051
Range 95� C NO
Thread �" 14NPTF
Terminal Spade Connection
I've used this switch for around 18 months now with my cooling system (PWR aluminium radiator and 16" Davies Craig Thermo Fan) without any overheating problems. As a precautionary measure I also wired an override switch so the thermo fan can be turned on manually. If I'm stuck in traffic on a hot day I usually turn the switch on (if I remember!) but it's really not necessary.
This temperature switch setup, in my opinion, is the easiest setup to control the thermo fan. Granted that you can't set the temperature but 95� C seems to work well for me.
VDO Part No. 230.051
Range 95� C NO
Thread �" 14NPTF
Terminal Spade Connection
I've used this switch for around 18 months now with my cooling system (PWR aluminium radiator and 16" Davies Craig Thermo Fan) without any overheating problems. As a precautionary measure I also wired an override switch so the thermo fan can be turned on manually. If I'm stuck in traffic on a hot day I usually turn the switch on (if I remember!) but it's really not necessary.
This temperature switch setup, in my opinion, is the easiest setup to control the thermo fan. Granted that you can't set the temperature but 95� C seems to work well for me.
Edited by antelopeslr5000, 24 February 2006 - 04:24 AM.
#10
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:10 AM
Well thats one way of looking at it, but really, one can buy a dvd player for $60 atm, surely we dont need to pay $80 for this thing,(yes its probably assembled in aus and there is no great demand) perhaps it could be supplied in kit form.$80 is about right if you dont have the inclination or knowledge to build one yourself..
(please no comments claiming the dvd player wont work under the bonnet or switch the electric fans on)
#11
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:12 AM
sorry, double post
Edited by devilsadvocate, 24 February 2006 - 05:12 AM.
#12
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:49 AM
You're right, you don't need to pay $80 and it is available in kit form, or at least it was a few years ago. It was available from Dick Smiths Electronics (Silicon Chip's Low Fuel Warning Indicator). Cost was about $15-$20.surely we dont need to pay $80 for this thing,(yes its probably assembled in aus and there is no great demand) perhaps it could be supplied in kit form.
The kit works in parallel with the fuel sender in the tank. Once the fuel gauge reaches a point you consider low, you adjust a potentiometer within the kit until the warning light is illuminated.
The kit does require slight modification if it is to be used to control thermo fans. The kit was designed with a delay before it displayed the low fuel warning light (to prevent fuel sloshing around in the tank giving false indications. To reduce this delay all you need to do is change one capacitor to a lower value.
Next, remove the warning light and connect the wires from the warning light to the solenoid of the control relay for the thermo fan. Instead of connecting the kit to the fuel gauge, you connect it to the temperature sender. Once the temperature gauge reaches the point you want the thermo fan to come on, you adjust the potentiometer until the fan comes on. Simple!
The kit that is selling for $80 is the same kit that was available unassembled for $20, just modified as I have explained above. How do I know? I convinced a friend to buy the $80 kit as I was curious to see what it was! He wasn't too impressed when I told him that he could have bought the same kit unassembled from DSE for 1/4 of the price. With firnds like me, who needs enemies?
#13
_tj81_
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 07:31 PM
Cant argue with that !With firnds like me, who needs enemies?
Cant agree that its the same kit though, this one has added inputs for connecting to the AC system so that when the AC is on, the fan/s kick in.
I cant remember seeing that on the one i bought from DSE, although i didnt use the low fuel indicator, i used the low water indicator for the same purpose.
#14
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:24 PM
Thanks for that info antelopeslr5000, I'll give that a go when I finally ditch that revolting capillary tube thing.
tj81: Having the fans engage when the ac is isnt a big thing to overcome, is that all it does in the $80 setup.
There's a number of simple ways to do it. One which I run with atm and another just of the top of my head....
I run separate relays to the fan, one triggered by the compressor feed and the other by the thermostatic switch. There is no possibility of feedback of the thermostatic switch triggering the ac in this application.
Another cheaper and just as effective way to do it is to put a diode in the trigger feed wire from the compressor and depending on the design of the thermostatic switch a diode in the trigger wire from it too.
tj81: Having the fans engage when the ac is isnt a big thing to overcome, is that all it does in the $80 setup.
There's a number of simple ways to do it. One which I run with atm and another just of the top of my head....
I run separate relays to the fan, one triggered by the compressor feed and the other by the thermostatic switch. There is no possibility of feedback of the thermostatic switch triggering the ac in this application.
Another cheaper and just as effective way to do it is to put a diode in the trigger feed wire from the compressor and depending on the design of the thermostatic switch a diode in the trigger wire from it too.
#15
enderwigginau
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:49 PM
The temp switches that are used for idiot light dashes (not gauges) can be used for this - and you can select the temp you want them to switch the fans on.........
If you get an early model thermostat housing, there is a thread in the top for the switch. You might even be able to get these repro/new.
Grant..
If you get an early model thermostat housing, there is a thread in the top for the switch. You might even be able to get these repro/new.
Grant..
#16
_tj81_
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:56 PM
Your spot on.....never suggested it wasnt an easy option, just that i wasnt sure it could be the same kit.tj81: Having the fans engage when the ac is isnt a big thing to overcome, is that all it does in the $80 setup.
#17
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 24 February 2006 - 09:59 PM
It's definitely the same kit.
With the low fuel warning indicator kit the warning light is switched on and off by a transistor within the kit. So if you run one extra wire to the emitter leg of the transistor, the transistor can be switch on and off by applying and removing 12 volts to that extra wire.
All you need to do then is connect that extra wire to the air conditioner switch (or compressor feed).
With the low fuel warning indicator kit the warning light is switched on and off by a transistor within the kit. So if you run one extra wire to the emitter leg of the transistor, the transistor can be switch on and off by applying and removing 12 volts to that extra wire.
All you need to do then is connect that extra wire to the air conditioner switch (or compressor feed).
Edited by antelopeslr5000, 24 February 2006 - 10:11 PM.
#18
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 03:48 AM
Sorry, made a mistake! The extra wire should be connected to the base leg of the transistor, not the emitter leg. 
Edited by antelopeslr5000, 25 February 2006 - 03:49 AM.
#19
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 04:27 AM
yes, that is a possibility Grant, but i see two probs, one you have sort of mentioned how to overcomeThe temp switches that are used for idiot light dashes (not gauges) can be used for this - and you can select the temp you want them to switch the fans on.........
If you get an early model thermostat housing, there is a thread in the top for the switch. You might even be able to get these repro/new.
Grant..
1. where to locate the extra temp switch, the thermostat covers you mention might be an option. Ive heard of adaptors similar to the ones you might use to use a oil pressure gauge and switch, but would have concerns that having them not positioned in a direct flow of water on the cylinder head would give inaccurate and inconsistent readings, unlike oil pressure where dist away isnt a concern.
2. can you really get these switches in different temp ranges? A standard early Holden one is only designed to trigger at when overheat conditions are reached>110C? and this wouldnt be suitable for regular switching of cooling fans on a car originally engineered with an engine fan.
It is imperative in slow moving traffic for cars that have been retrofitted with electric fans to keep a lid on temp of all underbonnet components, not just the coolant temp, , they should come on as soon as thermostat is wide open(~90C for most applications) in low air flow conditions. Most of the people on this forum would get around this by using an overide switch to turn them on in traffic, however, this is not a good option for vehicles that get driven by the non mechanically inclined.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 25 February 2006 - 04:38 AM.
#20
J-Rod
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:48 AM
Here is another option from VDO:
i have no idea on the cost of these though.
i have no idea on the cost of these though.
#21
_tj81_
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:37 AM
Interesting gizmo that !!
Might ring the brother and see if repco stockem, and how much...then see ow much trade price to the old man...
Might ring the brother and see if repco stockem, and how much...then see ow much trade price to the old man...
#22
enderwigginau
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 02:13 PM
yes, that is a possibility Grant, but i see two probs, one you have sort of mentioned how to overcome
1. where to locate the extra temp switch, the thermostat covers you mention might be an option. Ive heard of adaptors similar to the ones you might use to use a oil pressure gauge and switch, but would have concerns that having them not positioned in a direct flow of water on the cylinder head would give inaccurate and inconsistent readings, unlike oil pressure where dist away isnt a concern.
2. can you really get these switches in different temp ranges? A standard early Holden one is only designed to trigger at when overheat conditions are reached>110C? and this wouldnt be suitable for regular switching of cooling fans on a car originally engineered with an engine fan.
It is imperative in slow moving traffic for cars that have been retrofitted with electric fans to keep a lid on temp of all underbonnet components, not just the coolant temp, , they should come on as soon as thermostat is wide open(~90C for most applications) in low air flow conditions. Most of the people on this forum would get around this by using an overide switch to turn them on in traffic, however, this is not a good option for vehicles that get driven by the non mechanically inclined.�
I am running this on the 230. Early model thermostat cover, and switch for something around 89-92deg.
You can always drill and tap next to the existing bung, as many Chev 6 heads (and grey heads?) have.
Of course you can get them in different temps, as there are different makes of car, and other uses. Just ask for the one you want at Ripco.....
Grant..
#23
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 03:28 PM
I've got twin Davies Craig 10" fans (fresh purchase - at a bargain price), i was wondering if anyone has ever made brackets up to fit them outside of the engine bay, and if so, how did you go about it??
I have the wiring sorted... No dramas there, but just wondering about the many different types of brackets going around!
Keith
I have the wiring sorted... No dramas there, but just wondering about the many different types of brackets going around!
Keith
#24
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 08:12 PM
Keithy, pass those fans on, if you are going to all the bother with electric fans, wiring, switches and brackets, do it once and get something that isnt going to be marginal when the temp goes up. two 10in davies fan isnt probably even going to match an enginefan at idle.
Depends what you want to achieve with them though.....
Grant: Drilling another hole in the cylinder head(where exactly) and tapping it for the right switch....eh. Auto stores will have switches that go below 95C suitable for the cylinder head?(i know there are those ones you can put into the radiators-but they dont last) Do you know what car the one you have was meant to come off?
Whenever I go into auto accessories places, not just Supercheap-but stores like Repco as well, unless you can tell them what car/model its meant to be for they dont want to know about it.
Depends what you want to achieve with them though.....
Grant: Drilling another hole in the cylinder head(where exactly) and tapping it for the right switch....eh. Auto stores will have switches that go below 95C suitable for the cylinder head?(i know there are those ones you can put into the radiators-but they dont last) Do you know what car the one you have was meant to come off?
Whenever I go into auto accessories places, not just Supercheap-but stores like Repco as well, unless you can tell them what car/model its meant to be for they dont want to know about it.
#25
enderwigginau
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 02:03 PM
Keith - I am running twin 10s and have never had a heat related drama. ONLY a red six stroker tho.........
Get two pieces of angle (1/2-3/4") in Aluminium.
Cut them to fit across radiator from the radiator support L to radiator support R.
(Rear of Radiator - use radiator core support if on front.)
Screw the fans on to these pieces, one piece along the top, one piece along the bottom, so the fans are in the middle, and you can screw these new brackets to the radiator support.
Make sure you have the fans in the correct blow/suck orientation.
Voila, fans mounted, not too close and not too far from core, and NO core damaging bolts or cable ties in sight.
My Oil Cooler was mounted the same, but on the front.
Devils..... - some radiators (mainly Chev) have a bung for a switch/sender/extra hose, that can be utilised. Anyone having a radiator made should be sure to have an extra one brazed in just in case.
Make the parts dudes work for their pay. Thats why they have books of parts under the counter.
Grant..
Get two pieces of angle (1/2-3/4") in Aluminium.
Cut them to fit across radiator from the radiator support L to radiator support R.
(Rear of Radiator - use radiator core support if on front.)
Screw the fans on to these pieces, one piece along the top, one piece along the bottom, so the fans are in the middle, and you can screw these new brackets to the radiator support.
Make sure you have the fans in the correct blow/suck orientation.
Voila, fans mounted, not too close and not too far from core, and NO core damaging bolts or cable ties in sight.
My Oil Cooler was mounted the same, but on the front.
Devils..... - some radiators (mainly Chev) have a bung for a switch/sender/extra hose, that can be utilised. Anyone having a radiator made should be sure to have an extra one brazed in just in case.
Make the parts dudes work for their pay. Thats why they have books of parts under the counter.
Grant..
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