135 replies to this topic

[toryman76]

Further update. I decided to proceed with the  new fork, ball and NOS bearing. Engines back in and I've done around 3-400km and so far so good. I haven't heard or felt anything nasty and the 'box shifts smooth as. One thing though, I left the spring at the pedal disconnected as some have mentioned in previous posts. Cable seems to be staying on, but then again I haven't knocked the cable yet! Anyway I think I have finally resolved this once and for all.     

[308 Sunbird]

Hope so mate has been some saga. 

[toryman76]

yes you're not wrong Stuart!

[bullitA9X]

Hey mate my sons torana project has a full clutch cable set up that was for the T5 gearbox which is no longer in it we have v8 Aussie 4 speed for it I have a cable bell housing just not sure on the fork or throw out bearing... here is a pic of the bell housing and 2 clutch forks I have I was told I needed to use the vn type throw out bearing so it sits in the two round bits on clutch fork... but the vn throw out bearing seems a little loose on the input shaft... what bearing did you use???

[toryman76]

Hey mate. Sorry for not seeing this. Forum keeps sending my notifications to junk email. Firstly one of those forks looks well bent! I ended up buying a brand new fork because I felt my original was bent and worn causing part of my adjustment issue. I wouldn't hesitate in buying a new fork. Much better construction. Better fit to the bearing but only downside is you can't get the fork out of the bellhousing without removing the bellhousing because over all it is bigger. I figured this wasn't a major issue. I ended up getting a nos bearing off eBay. This had a much better radiused face to mate with clutch fingers. If I were you I would hunt down a nos bearing as nothing I've seen new comes close to the right shape. If you do have to use a new bearing buy one from dellows as they machine up a steel carrier and press it on to new bearings. I personally wouldn't use a t5 plastic type. Too many articles on line about failures. Fyi the height of a t5 bearing and a steel carrier plus new bearing is the same. I didn't measure the diameter though when I compared them a while back.

[Lc69]

I’m going through the same pain at the moment......and just found your thread, which is helping a lot.

I haven’t checked the 48mm dimension for the fork adjustment yet, but I would say I am close based on your photos.
Can I ask, How far does the fork actually travel in the bellhousing slot when you full press down the clutch pedal?
Apart from being interested in the fork position, I guess I’m curious to know how much cable pull is required.

The reason I ask is because I’ve done exactly the same thing, New Delrow fork and bearing, similar fork adjustment, and the clutch is not disengaging.
I believe the pedal has the wrong leverage ratio and is also possibly short on travel.
I currently have 60mm from the pedal pivot to the hook on the pedal, and around 110mm under the pedal which provides around 25mm of cable pull.
It looks like I need something like 40mm to disengage the clutch......but it would be really helpful if you could confirm.
I’m currently using a std 4cly pedal (LC), which i was told would work, but I’m guessing for 6cyl not 8cly.
(I’m running 253 with M20)

Here's some photos of both forks set to the 48mm hook measurement from the gearbox mounting face. The ball photo is where it ended up with the new fork.

[toryman76]

Gday Tony.

I actually never measured the position travel dims for the fork in the bellhousing window. I can measure for you next time I have it up on jack stands (cars too low to slide under it)

Having said this I dare say your problem is not enough travel from the clutch pedal hook. I am not too familiar with LCs but for example to make this setup work in an LX you need to raise the hook height on the pedal to create a bigger lever arm so that you get the required travel. Might be best to grab a bit of scrap steel and start shaping a hook to see what will work. Alternatively if you think the lx style conversion hook will work I can send you a drawing which you can either laser cut or fab up yourself.

I’m going through the same pain at the moment......and just found your thread, which is helping a lot.
I haven’t checked the 48mm dimension for the fork adjustment yet, but I would say I am close based on your photos.
Can I ask, How far does the fork actually travel in the bellhousing slot when you full press down the clutch pedal?
Apart from being interested in the fork position, I guess I’m curious to know how much cable pull is required.
The reason I ask is because I’ve done exactly the same thing, New Delrow fork and bearing, similar fork adjustment, and the clutch is not disengaging.
I believe the pedal has the wrong leverage ratio and is also possibly short on travel.
I currently have 60mm from the pedal pivot to the hook on the pedal, and around 110mm under the pedal which provides around 25mm of cable pull.
It looks like I need something like 40mm to disengage the clutch......but it would be really helpful if you could confirm.
I’m currently using a std 4cly pedal (LC), which i was told would work, but I’m guessing for 6cyl not 8cly.
(I’m running 253 with M20)

[Lc69]

I suspect you are right, I’m working on it now.
I’m curious to know what the required distance is from the pivot to the hook if anyone knows.

Gday Tony.
I actually never measured the position travel dims for the fork in the bellhousing window. I can measure for you next time I have it up on jack stands (cars too low to slide under it)
Having said this I dare say your problem is not enough travel from the clutch pedal hook. I am not too familiar with LCs but for example to make this setup work in an LX you need to raise the hook height on the pedal to create a bigger lever arm so that you get the required travel. Might be best to grab a bit of scrap steel and start shaping a hook to see what will work. Alternatively if you think the lx style conversion hook will work I can send you a drawing which you can either laser cut or fab up yourself.

[rodomo]

I have had a cable clutch pedal gifted to me...........................it's up in the loft......................nag me

[Lc69]

What’s it out of? You should really get it down and measure it ha ha

I have had a cable clutch pedal gifted to me...........................it's up in the loft......................nag me

[rodomo]

It came out of a mates LC and he put it back to rat trap. No ladders in the shed at the moment. They're scattered around the joint. I'm cleaning gutters.

KEEP NAGGING THOUGH

[Lc69]

Ok, I’m very interested to see it. V8 I assume?

Why would anyone go back to a rat trap from a cable?........says the person that hasn’t made the cable work yet ha ha

It came out of a mates LC and he put it back to rat trap. No ladders in the shed at the moment. They're scattered around the joint. I'm cleaning gutters.
KEEP NAGGING THOUGH

[S pack]

Picture supplied by R-O-B Dammit! from this thread. http://www.gmh-toran...h=1#entry564912

This is a UC M20 6cyl pedal

 

#7 Toranamuk

Forum Fixture

• 

Posted 05 January 2011 - 01:09 AM

Use rodomo's picture & measurements & add 25mm to the hook height.

The offset is the same as the V8 pedal & please please do not cut up a genuine V8 pedal for the conversion !!

Craig

Edited by S pack, 31 December 2020 - 01:26 PM.

[Lc69]

Thanks for the info.
I’m heavily invested in a LC 4cyl pedal already, modified to clear steering column.

The LC/LJ pedal is 60mm from the pivot to the cable pull point.
This matches the UC 6cyl pedal, which comes in to be 62mm pivot to hook based on the image provided.
Based on the fact the 6cyl is know to be different to the V8, it seems my pedal is likely the problem.

If the hook was lifted 25mm as suggested the distance from the pivot to the hook point would be 71mm

The current pedal gives 25mm of cable stroke.
The suggested 25mm increase would give 30mm

But when I disengage the clutch using a truck strap on the fork, it looks and feels like I need 40mm of cable travel for full disengagement.
This would require a pivot to fork distance of 90mm

It would be great to see a real live V8 pedal with a ruler on it to Seattle this once and for all.

At the end I will do a post on 6cyl and V8 cable pull conversions for the baby Torana.
Save the next goose some pain ha ha

[rexy]

Have you room to fit a longer fork?

If you do it will give you more movement at the bearing for the same length pull on the cable due to the increased fork ratio.

[yel327]

The difference in distance from the pivot point can be worked out from one of these:

 B592CB9D-B96E-4C99-825A-685CE7B92357.jpeg   27.69K   4 downloads

On a HZ or WB the cable head stays in the same position, and the pedal pivot drops. On this bracket the single hole goes under the bolt head that the brake pedal pivots on. On a 6cyl the clutch pedal bolt goes through the top hole, and on a V8 the bolt goes through the bottom hole. The pedals are different - the hook remains in space, thus it is further away from the pivot point with the V8 pedal. The difference between the two is the distance between these two holes in this bracket. Here is a picture showing you the 6cyl and V8 pedals (the two on the left):

 C307861D-E808-4E45-939B-ACBCFDE8C16C.jpeg   44.94K   7 downloads

The V8 pedal is also shorter between the pad and the pivot by the same amount the hook is further away.

If you can’t find one I’ll have a look in the shed, I’m sure there should be a fair few full pedal sets floating around somewhere that I can get that measurement for you.

[Lc69]

Have you room to fit a longer fork?
If you do it will give you more movement at the bearing for the same length pull on the cable due to the increased fork ratio.

I would need a shorter fork to achieve more travel with the same pedal.
I have room to extend the hook/cable connection on the pedal, and can come through the firewall at an angle to accomodate the change easy enough.
So I just need to confirm the correct cable pull required and I can make it work.
I’m 3D printing some parts atm to test it out, but it would be great to see a real life V8 pedal to confirm......with a ruler on it.

Thanks.
I can’t find one.....best chance would be to buy one of the conversion pedals form rarespares......which I have considered.
Any measurements would be great.

The difference in distance from the pivot point can be worked out from one of these:
B592CB9D-B96E-4C99-825A-685CE7B92357.jpeg
On a HZ or WB the cable head stays in the same position, and the pedal pivot drops. On this bracket the single hole goes under the bolt head that the brake pedal pivots on. On a 6cyl the clutch pedal bolt goes through the top hole, and on a V8 the bolt goes through the bottom hole. The pedals are different - the hook remains in space, thus it is further away from the pivot point with the V8 pedal. The difference between the two is the distance between these two holes in this bracket. Here is a picture showing you the 6cyl and V8 pedals (the two on the left):
C307861D-E808-4E45-939B-ACBCFDE8C16C.jpeg
The V8 pedal is also shorter between the pad and the pivot by the same amount the hook is further away.
If you can’t find one I’ll have a look in the shed, I’m sure there should be a fair few full pedal sets floating around somewhere that I can get that measurement for you.

[Lc69]

So the pivot pin looks to be 16mm (5/8”) and if I scale that picture the distance between the holes works out to be 31mm.
My reverse engineering is suggesting I need to increase the hook point by 30mm.
So increasing the distance from the hook to the pivot from 60mm to 90mm.

If someone can confirm this I think my mind will be at rest ha ha.
Otherwise I’ll give it a go based on this and see how it ends up.

[rodomo]

Attached Files

•  LCJ cable clutch 2.jpg   104.09K   2 downloads
•  LCJ cable clutch 3.jpg   118.3K   1 downloads
•  LCJ cable clutch 4.jpg   104.74K   1 downloads
•  LCJ cable clutch 6.jpg   131.91K   1 downloads
•  LCJ cable clutch.jpg   111.98K   1 downloads

[S pack]

Rob, modified 6cyl LC, LJ clutch pedal.

 

This pic shows the part that has been hacked off the pedal in the above picture.

 

[rexy]

I would need a shorter fork to achieve more travel with the same pedal.
I have room to extend the hook/cable connection on the pedal, and can come through the firewall at an angle to accomodate the change easy enough.
So I just need to confirm the correct cable pull required and I can make it work.
I’m 3D printing some parts atm to test it out, but it would be great to see a real life V8 pedal to confirm......with a ruler on it.

Thanks.
I can’t find one.....best chance would be to buy one of the conversion pedals form rarespares......which I have considered.
Any measurements would be great.
 

Oops!

Of course I meant shorter....

 

I had quite a bit of fiddling when I set up the clutch in my yellow LJ which is a holden V8/ R154 / hydraulic setup. Getting the geometry of the fork correct was the key to getting it to work properly.

[Lc69]

I considered the mal wood hydraulic option a few times......I still think this would be the best solution when it comes to space and function.....
However, I liked the idea of getting a simple cable pull setup to work. Much cheaper (excluding the stuffing around) and easier for me to adjust and maintain later.
I figured if I get to the end of this, even if I convert one day, it might help others........and get me on the road (so I can find the next problem ha ha)

Oops!
Of course I meant shorter....
 
I had quite a bit of fiddling when I set up the clutch in my yellow LJ which is a holden V8/ R154 / hydraulic setup. Getting the geometry of the fork correct was the key to getting it to work properly.

[Lc69]

Thanks for this, makes sense.
What’s the name of the brakes shown in the picture?
If I can find one of these to measure that will also help confirm the distance.....31mm = 1.25”.....seems believable and matches what I was I was thinking.
Would these brackets be fitted to the auto models? Would increase the chance of finding one to measure.

The difference in distance from the pivot point can be worked out from one of these:
B592CB9D-B96E-4C99-825A-685CE7B92357.jpeg
On a HZ or WB the cable head stays in the same position, and the pedal pivot drops. On this bracket the single hole goes under the bolt head that the brake pedal pivots on. On a 6cyl the clutch pedal bolt goes through the top hole, and on a V8 the bolt goes through the bottom hole. The pedals are different - the hook remains in space, thus it is further away from the pivot point with the V8 pedal. The difference between the two is the distance between these two holes in this bracket. Here is a picture showing you the 6cyl and V8 pedals (the two on the left):
C307861D-E808-4E45-939B-ACBCFDE8C16C.jpeg
The V8 pedal is also shorter between the pad and the pivot by the same amount the hook is further away.
If you can’t find one I’ll have a look in the shed, I’m sure there should be a fair few full pedal sets floating around somewhere that I can get that measurement for you.

[yel327]

Thanks for this, makes sense.
What’s the name of the brakes shown in the picture?
If I can find one of these to measure that will also help confirm the distance.....31mm = 1.25”.....seems believable and matches what I was I was thinking.
Would these brackets be fitted to the auto models? Would increase the chance of finding one to measure.

 

 

 

What brakes do you mean?

 

Only on manual. On the far left of the bracket where it folds there is a big hole which is what supports the clutch cable outer. Here is a better picture. The cable goes through the firewall and seals with a big rubber grommet, and the plastic head sits in the hole on the end of the bracket.

 

 WB.jpg   11.62K   1 downloads

 

Here is a scan off a HZ parts catalogue:

 

 IMAGE.pdf   43.66K   16 downloads

[yel327]

Just found a random one in the pile under my bench. 60mm from the centre of the hook to the centre of the pivot.

 941C7128-4A83-4C1B-B8B0-8532008F3A90.jpeg   161.06K   9 downloads

 D6FFE6A7-28DF-4FAF-B917-C8D5D61548B4.jpeg   345.07K   8 downloads