Hey all,
I've just fitted a tow-bar to my 253 powered hatchback. This is just so I can tow a standard type trailer (to carry engines and other cool stuff etc). It's the typical tow-bar that bolts up with 6 bolts into the boot area (4 bolts go through the chassis rails, & 2 straight through the middle part of the floor near the filler). I made up strong steel spacers so nothing will crush up, and used nice thick plates with high-tensile bolts throughout......feels rock solid!
However, it's got me to thinking - does anyone else use a Torana to actually tow tandem trailers loaded up with another Torana???? I know it's frowned upon to use a car of the same weight to tow another, but what if it's just on the odd occasion? Anyone do it? Pro's and con's?? My Dad has a 253 powered LH sedan with a standard tow-bar and we've pulled tandems with a car on the back a couple of times before with no probs. Both the car and the tow-bar itself have been fine...
Thoughts? Experiences????
Torana's As Tow Cars?
Started by
LXCHEV
, Feb 19 2006 11:16 PM
43 replies to this topic
#1
LXCHEV
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:16 PM
#2
LXCHEV
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:22 PM
By the way, the reason I'm curious is that I've started thinking it would be cool to trailer lxchev to certain events sometimes. It would just make life a whole lot easier (and possibly cheaper). No more carrying the slicks in the back seat, just have them on ready to go. No more working under the car pulling the exhaust off, it could already be off, etc etc.... Plus obviously another huge benefit would then be I could thrash it heaps more and not worry as much about breaking something! (I'm joking about thrashing it, but you know what I mean).....
Cool tow cars are just too expensive for me (would love a brand new Navara twin cab, or Rodeo, or Chev truck)... ain't gonna happen. I need something cheap. If I could get away with using my daily driver it wouldn't cost me anything!
Cool tow cars are just too expensive for me (would love a brand new Navara twin cab, or Rodeo, or Chev truck)... ain't gonna happen. I need something cheap. If I could get away with using my daily driver it wouldn't cost me anything!
#3
GML-31
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:34 PM
I have towed toranas behind a 2wd hilux 2.4L many times.....be nice to have the V8 power....
#4
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:40 PM
Torana's are pretty light, meaning when you put a car trailer behind them you are quite limited as to what weight you can legally carry! Worth thinking about?
Cheers
Herne
Cheers
Herne
#5
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:49 PM
from qld transport regulations...
Note: This information can be obtained from the owner�s manual or the manufacturer. If the motor
vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the
following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:
August 2005 Page 3 of 12
� one and a half times the unladen mass of the motor vehicle if the trailer is fitted with brakes; or
� the unladen mass of the motor vehicle, if the trailer is not fitted with brakes.
Note: This information can be obtained from the owner�s manual or the manufacturer. If the motor
vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the
following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:
August 2005 Page 3 of 12
� one and a half times the unladen mass of the motor vehicle if the trailer is fitted with brakes; or
� the unladen mass of the motor vehicle, if the trailer is not fitted with brakes.
#6
_T0rana_
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Posted 19 February 2006 - 11:52 PM
my torana is good at towing 
its just a 6 and tows other toranas with no trouble
its just a 6 and tows other toranas with no trouble
Edited by T0rana, 19 February 2006 - 11:54 PM.
#7
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:01 AM
Iv towed with a torana many a times, TORANR AMORE has a LX sedan with 308 t400 and I towed his LX sedan 253 4speed witch was involved in an accident all the way to Benloch(lancfeild) country victoria appoximetly 120km north west of melb and it did it with no probs what so ever.. I was verry suprized the way the torana handled with all the weight it had behind it, i didnt get any sways or speed wobbles.. All you would realy need is a nice set of heavy duty rear springs and maybe Gas Air udjustable shockers if your gona use it to tow...
The way you have explained the towbar fittment i doubt you will ever have any problems with it unless your car has rust in that section and from what i can gather your useing your orange hatchback wich probly doesnt even have surface rust...
Just keep in mind when towing to take it easy, slowly but surely is my moto when towing..
John
The way you have explained the towbar fittment i doubt you will ever have any problems with it unless your car has rust in that section and from what i can gather your useing your orange hatchback wich probly doesnt even have surface rust...
Just keep in mind when towing to take it easy, slowly but surely is my moto when towing..
John
#8
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:04 AM
Thanks for the info GML-31. So from a legal point-of-view, sounds like it's ok. One and a half times the weight of a Torana would nearly sneak in, assuming a typical tandem would weight approx 700-800kg's.
TOrana - are you just using a standard tow-bar? Ie. no extra bracing or heavy-duty type kit or anything fancy?? The fact that standard tow-bars bolt through the chassis rails indicates to me they should be pretty decent?? When you tow, how's it feel under brakes down hill etc?? Does that trailer have brakes? Looks real neat by the way! I'd love to get a photo of my hatch towing my sedan!
TOrana - are you just using a standard tow-bar? Ie. no extra bracing or heavy-duty type kit or anything fancy?? The fact that standard tow-bars bolt through the chassis rails indicates to me they should be pretty decent?? When you tow, how's it feel under brakes down hill etc?? Does that trailer have brakes? Looks real neat by the way! I'd love to get a photo of my hatch towing my sedan!
#9
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:09 AM
Thanks for your input John. Yeah I have no rust in that area which is a bonus! If I was going to make a habit of towing with the Hatchback, I'd probably upgrade at least the front brakes, and maybe pay a bit of attention to the suspension... (springs & shocks like you mentioned), also bushes etc. Then just hope the old aussie 4 speed clutch hangs in there!
By the way, I agree - slow and steady when towing
Perhaps this may just work out afterall....
By the way, I agree - slow and steady when towing
Perhaps this may just work out afterall....
#10
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:16 AM
The clutch should be fine, depending on your rear end gear ratio you might find with the manual you need a bit more effort to get going.. Once rolling your clutch will deffinetly be ok..Again the same rule applies, slow easy take offs and dont worry about the traffic if they dont like going slow let them overtake..
Another thing i tend to do when towing is plan out a route, just look thru the directory for the easiest path..
I love your hatch by the way, when i first saw the pics of it i thought to myself "Imagine if it was an original SS with stripes in that condition..Its sometimes good to dream..
John
Another thing i tend to do when towing is plan out a route, just look thru the directory for the easiest path..
I love your hatch by the way, when i first saw the pics of it i thought to myself "Imagine if it was an original SS with stripes in that condition..Its sometimes good to dream..
John
#11
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:29 AM
When i get the Kingswood on the road she will tow my torana.. and its only a 6cyl on Gas... I dont think u will have a problem with the power of the engine and by wat it sounds the torry will handle the extra weight as well, i assume u have the V8 Brake booster as well already on the hatch?
Btw it would lookk mint ur orange hatch with billets towing the Chev! i would love to go slow behind that ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
Btw it would lookk mint ur orange hatch with billets towing the Chev! i would love to go slow behind that ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
#12
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:45 AM
Yeah John the hatch does have pretty tall diff gearing - I am yet to actually check it out, but feels like 2.78, maybe 3.08. Cheers for the good advice. Thanks for the kind comments too! hahaha if only she were an original SS!!! If only.... I am still pretty stoked with the general condition of it, unfortunately though, the dreaded C pillar on the passenger side has begun showing signs of some rust. D'oh, d'oh, d'oh. I am keeping an eye on it and if it gets much worse I'll do something about it... Another reason I wish I had a garage! I won't be spending any money fixing the C-pillar until it gets the garage to live in which it deserves!
Hey Matt, how much does your 6cyl Kingswood weigh?? I reckon that should tow quite well, they're a good solid car. By the way, yes I do have the big V8 booster on my hatch. It might actually be time to ditch the 2 barrel Stromberg though and fit my quadrajet and also electronic dizzy...we'll get her towing....
Keep the comments and suggestions coming.....
Cheers
Hey Matt, how much does your 6cyl Kingswood weigh?? I reckon that should tow quite well, they're a good solid car. By the way, yes I do have the big V8 booster on my hatch. It might actually be time to ditch the 2 barrel Stromberg though and fit my quadrajet and also electronic dizzy...we'll get her towing....
Keep the comments and suggestions coming.....
Cheers
#13
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:53 AM
The aim of my 383 SS was that its supposed to be built to tow my racecar (car and trailer under 1000kg)
It might even get a towbar fitted if I don't get too carried away with it
Thats the plan anyway........ so no-one tell Tinks if I forget to put the towbar on
It might even get a towbar fitted if I don't get too carried away with it
Thats the plan anyway........ so no-one tell Tinks if I forget to put the towbar on
#14
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 01:00 AM
If no tow bar goes on does that mean my torana will have to tow your racecar since the commondoor is trying to die.
On the thread topic... I have towed cars on trailers, and box trailers with my torana.
On the thread topic... I have towed cars on trailers, and box trailers with my torana.
#15
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 01:02 AM
i towed a fraud 
with my Lc (out of nessesity)
it handled it fine but wouldn't wana havta do it all the time
tom
with my Lc (out of nessesity)it handled it fine but wouldn't wana havta do it all the time
tom
#16
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 01:54 AM
Bad news guys, GM does specify in the owners manual clearly whats suitable, and its not going to included a torrie on a tandem trailer. Id go as far as saying the Queensland regs of same mass on unbraked trailer is irresponsible if applied to a torrie with standard brakes.If the motor
vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the
following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:
August 2005 Page 3 of 12
� one and a half times the unladen mass of the motor vehicle if the trailer is fitted with brakes; or
� the unladen mass of the motor vehicle, if the trailer is not fitted with brakes.
No trailer brakes: 500kg
Brakes and standard gm tow pack: 900kg
Brakes and heavy duty tow pack(whatever that is): 1620kg
Max vertical force on tow bar at rest: 10% of trailer weight: 50,90 and 162kg
The torrie is strong enough(chassis wise) to tow heaps, and towing it in a straight line on a well surfaced highway should be fine, but as Herne pointed out, its really all about vehicle mass/trailer mass. If the trailer is massive it can basically decide where the car is going rather than the other way around. A lot of common sense should be applied with a trailer, even with trailer brakes, stopping distances are going to increase significantly and could run out of brakes on a torrie easily on a steep mountain/downhill run(where even that is possible with four people in the car) - engine braking will help of course but wont be the saviour.
#17
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 05:05 AM
Reading here that 'many ' Torana owners tow all sorts of vehicles behind theirs.
I accept that a Torana is strong enough engine wise to tow almost anything (common sense prevailing) however I repeat from a legal point of view much has to be taken into consideration and generally unless the tandem trailer is very light (do not read weak) and the vehicle being towed is also very light then you will run into Dept of Motor Transport regs regarding weights and mass. Just like devilsadvocate pointed out.
I am sure many people here including myself have all towed illegaly at some time or another....
Go talk to your own states transport authority and they will point all this out to you!
Tow at your own peril.
Cheers
Herne
I accept that a Torana is strong enough engine wise to tow almost anything (common sense prevailing) however I repeat from a legal point of view much has to be taken into consideration and generally unless the tandem trailer is very light (do not read weak) and the vehicle being towed is also very light then you will run into Dept of Motor Transport regs regarding weights and mass. Just like devilsadvocate pointed out.
I am sure many people here including myself have all towed illegaly at some time or another....
Go talk to your own states transport authority and they will point all this out to you!
Tow at your own peril.
Cheers
Herne
#18
GML-31
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 07:01 AM
In my manual it says
Tow Bar loads
Except where a vehicle is fitted with an equalising load trailer hitch and extra heavy duty equipment as required by GMH, the load imposed on the tow ball bar must be included in the maximum rear axle loading and the maximum loaded vehicle weight.
Vehicle weight chart 6 cyl SS Kerb 1213kg Maximum rear axle loading 89kg Maximum Loaded vehicle weight 1678kg... then refers to page 16 where it says for a 6 or 8 max trailer weight 1620kg.
So after all that I am assuming if you have an equalising trailer hitch you can go past this???
Tow Bar loads
Except where a vehicle is fitted with an equalising load trailer hitch and extra heavy duty equipment as required by GMH, the load imposed on the tow ball bar must be included in the maximum rear axle loading and the maximum loaded vehicle weight.
Vehicle weight chart 6 cyl SS Kerb 1213kg Maximum rear axle loading 89kg Maximum Loaded vehicle weight 1678kg... then refers to page 16 where it says for a 6 or 8 max trailer weight 1620kg.
So after all that I am assuming if you have an equalising trailer hitch you can go past this???
#19
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:01 AM
That's how I read it. Something about this thread gives me the impression a lot of people tow illegally. SHUBES is a pretty clean looking car, and having an equalizing trailer hitch setup on it probably wouldn't make it look fantastic... then again if it makes it completely legal it would be worth it.So after all that I am assuming if you have an equalising trailer hitch you can go past this???
I've got a few mates that use Commodore Utes as designated towing vehicles... but I can't think they'd weigh much more than 1300 really.
Anyone know about that? i suppose a ute is better off for towing anyway, but for example, LXCHEV would weigh more than 1300 I imagine.
#20
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:14 AM
i've towed my old rally buggy (big ol hemi V8) behind boris didnt have any drama's purely becuase the trailer had its own brake (otherwise i would still be going!) even the poor old traumatic didnt mind!
Oh and i towed the speedboat for bout 4 months, one day i had to tie the torry to my bro in laws bella (HQ belmont ute) and pull it and the boat out of the water, bella wasnt impressed with the whole heaviness steep grade etc lol
Oh and i towed the speedboat for bout 4 months, one day i had to tie the torry to my bro in laws bella (HQ belmont ute) and pull it and the boat out of the water, bella wasnt impressed with the whole heaviness steep grade etc lol
#21
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:18 AM
the link is to the RTA brochure regarding towing limit's
on vehicles with a GVM of less than 4.5t.(the limits are
on page 3)
One thing thats worth looking at if you towing near the rated capacity
of the car is a load distribution hitch and receiver unit.(Haymen Reece)
We've used one for years towing the racecar around and
it makes dramatic difference to handling and braking when
towing
grant
RTA Towing Trailers brochure
on vehicles with a GVM of less than 4.5t.(the limits are
on page 3)
One thing thats worth looking at if you towing near the rated capacity
of the car is a load distribution hitch and receiver unit.(Haymen Reece)
We've used one for years towing the racecar around and
it makes dramatic difference to handling and braking when
towing
grant
RTA Towing Trailers brochure
Edited by gm3300, 20 February 2006 - 08:18 AM.
#22
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:18 AM
No, 900kg is the max load without the equalisation hitch(sometimes known as level riders), 1620 is the max with this hitch.....it would be a unreasonable interpretation to make the conclusion that the weight is unlimited if you have the hitch.
Possibly the equalisation hitch isnt so necessary in a tandem axled trailer, and applies more to single axled large caravans.
Other vehicles will have different limits, reccommended by the manufacturer. Go beyond them at your peril, they know things about the cars that you dont......
Things they also factor in, apart from mass, is engine power, brakes and chassis strength.
ie the owners manual for the sunbird doesnt list the 1600kg option, most likely because the manufacturer sees the cars power output is not up to the task.
Possibly the equalisation hitch isnt so necessary in a tandem axled trailer, and applies more to single axled large caravans.
Other vehicles will have different limits, reccommended by the manufacturer. Go beyond them at your peril, they know things about the cars that you dont......
Things they also factor in, apart from mass, is engine power, brakes and chassis strength.
ie the owners manual for the sunbird doesnt list the 1600kg option, most likely because the manufacturer sees the cars power output is not up to the task.
#23
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:50 AM
Iv done some ileagle towing, 15 years ago i towed my LC GTR from the other side of town on a tandem with a gemini, yes a gemini was fun..lol
As for the brakes on a trailer iv towed trailers with brakes that pushed my mates HZ 308 statesmen along on a flat road cos the brakes were crap..The trailer i hire at the local BP is a real good trailer with excelent brakes and Ricks torana towed it fine...
My best tow car was my 4runner, that towed excelent, SWAYS were not an opption for that car it was so firm on the rd.. Towed a WRX back from Shepperton and it did it with ease and my 4 runer only had a 2.2ltr 4pot..Even with an under powerd car if you take it easy it will tow..
John
As for the brakes on a trailer iv towed trailers with brakes that pushed my mates HZ 308 statesmen along on a flat road cos the brakes were crap..The trailer i hire at the local BP is a real good trailer with excelent brakes and Ricks torana towed it fine...
My best tow car was my 4runner, that towed excelent, SWAYS were not an opption for that car it was so firm on the rd.. Towed a WRX back from Shepperton and it did it with ease and my 4 runer only had a 2.2ltr 4pot..Even with an under powerd car if you take it easy it will tow..
John
#24
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 09:07 AM
Put simply, would you trust the greater amount of metal in your Torrie compared to a modern car of the same size? (4WD monsters excluded)
Guy here at work is into horses, he was saying that all the weight rules had been changed recently, i.e. you can now tow 2 horses behind a car whereas previously you could only carry one. Worth looking at, and obviously may have something to do with types of trailer brakes fitted.
I think it would be fine. If you were going to tow it regular, I'd fit the level riders.
Didn't know LXChev was gonna be a trailer queen!
Guy here at work is into horses, he was saying that all the weight rules had been changed recently, i.e. you can now tow 2 horses behind a car whereas previously you could only carry one. Worth looking at, and obviously may have something to do with types of trailer brakes fitted.
I think it would be fine. If you were going to tow it regular, I'd fit the level riders.
Didn't know LXChev was gonna be a trailer queen!
Edited by Yella SLuR, 20 February 2006 - 09:08 AM.
#25
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Posted 20 February 2006 - 09:53 AM
Brett you have to seriously consider a few things:
- You are towing your baby around, safety 1st.
- Illegal towing may be ok most of the time until something happens (eg run out of brakes and plow through a red light & hit someone)
- Sways are the scariest thing you can ever experience (bar stacking), you need stability, power, and weight to avoid these.
- The tow bar on the hatch is probably one of those flat tounged ones. They dont have a huge load rating. You need a hitch reciever (box tube into box tube style.)
Ive been through most of the bad scenarios towing cars around, thats why I'm looking at ditching my VN and getting something more suitable as the HG is going to be a trailer sailer most of the time. Im also gonna get my own trailer.
- You are towing your baby around, safety 1st.
- Illegal towing may be ok most of the time until something happens (eg run out of brakes and plow through a red light & hit someone)
- Sways are the scariest thing you can ever experience (bar stacking), you need stability, power, and weight to avoid these.
- The tow bar on the hatch is probably one of those flat tounged ones. They dont have a huge load rating. You need a hitch reciever (box tube into box tube style.)
Ive been through most of the bad scenarios towing cars around, thats why I'm looking at ditching my VN and getting something more suitable as the HG is going to be a trailer sailer most of the time. Im also gonna get my own trailer.
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