We think the reason my LX wont start when the motors hot is the Starter is stuffed/on its way out:its the standard 308 item and onlky a few mm off my extractors which doesnt help matters anyways I have been looking around at old threads on here and elsewhere and am going to upgrade to a High Torque Starter,have read that the 304 starters from VR onwards are the way to go and bolt straight onto old 308/253 is this correct?.Are these smaller starters that the standard 308 ones,just wondering if I'll have fitting issues if using one of these? also someone mentioned you can actually get CVR High Torque starters for 308 too! I was sure these were only made in Chev and Ford models but I suspect these are more costly? $$$ any help much appreciated
Need new Starter
Started by
_76S.L.R_
, Dec 20 2008 10:11 PM
67 replies to this topic
#2
benno81
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Posted 20 December 2008 - 10:31 PM
we used a bosh high torque starter on my old mans 304 efi in his lx the smaller one fits in great much easier then the big one cost was 300 from autobarn
#3
_lx-304_
_lx-304_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 07:17 AM
thats sound right 76slr,the vn one is the bigger one and the vr v8 i have here is a lot smaller,in fact i thought the guy i got it off had fit it himself,but it seems it is standard.there is a lot more clearance that what you have now with the old one.if you shop around you can get them as low as 240 for the bosch one.
dave
dave
#4
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 10:58 AM
Is that part no BXH136(Bosch) correct? can anyone here tell me>,I dont want to buy the wrong one and find that it actually doesnt bolt up to 308................thats sound right 76slr,the vn one is the bigger one and the vr v8 i have here is a lot smaller,in fact i thought the guy i got it off had fit it himself,but it seems it is standard.there is a lot more clearance that what you have now with the old one.if you shop around you can get them as low as 240 for the bosch one.
dave
#5
_sshatch355_
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#6
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 11:47 AM
Thanks for the link mate but I'll look about and try get as better price on one (after finding out the right part no I need for the bosch 304 starter).....................
#7
antelopeslr5000
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 02:34 PM
Bosch BHX136 is the starter motor I have fitted to my 308. You'll also need new mounting bolts if you decide to go this option.
#8
_sshatch355_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:33 PM
Thanks for the link mate but I'll look about and try get as better price on one (after finding out the right part no I need for the bosch 304 starter).....................
watch ebay i got mine for $100 buy it now so was lucky.
#9
_lx-304_
_lx-304_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 04:05 PM
i know some people complain about e-bay,but it is a good source of parts if you can wait .i recently bought an lx front end,dis assembled,painted and deliverd to bris from melbourne for 31 dollars.(rod if you are a member and read this,THANK YOU for organising delivery for me.much appreciated.)
dave
dave
#10
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 21 December 2008 - 08:58 PM
What bolts are used mate?, bolts made for the 304 perhaps? or do you have to source different bolts..............Bosch BHX136 is the starter motor I have fitted to my 308. You'll also need new mounting bolts if you decide to go this option.
#11
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:53 PM
ARGHHHHHHHHH!,I am pissed off real bad I bought the VR Starter today ($213.00: Bosch BXH136) and I must have the worst luck in the world as it doesnt fit!? the solonoid hits on the extractors so I cant line up the bolt holes So I'll have to return it and have no idea what upraded starter will fit in there??,it fouls on the left top side of the starters soloniod. Sounds like all the other guys running these starters on 308's have had no probs so I must have weird extractors!?. Looks like I need a starter with the solonid positioned directly in the middle top of the starter or even leaning to the right to clear the extractors hitting it on the left,the VR one is positioned slightly leaning left.I think the ones with the adjustable mounting block are expensive and pretty sure you cant get 308 ones DAMNIT!!
#12
TerrA LX
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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:56 PM
What extractors do you have?
#13
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 22 December 2008 - 08:10 PM
This is the problem I have no idea!,they were on the car when I bought it 10 years ago and no markings etc so I have no idea other than they are stainless= ive just taken some pics to show the problemWhat extractors do you have?
#14
_lx-304_
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 06:54 AM
i am pretty sure that if the big one fit the the little one should fit.the solenoid should be tucked in behind the bell housing and extractors should run just clear of the block and housing,so none should interefer with each other.i have standard hsv headers,and while it is close still nothing hits.is the motor in the car.if it sitting on the front end on the floor,then it wont fit as the weight of the motor pulls the rear mounts of the kframe up and you cant get it in.if after everything it still doesnt fit then it will cheaoer to mod the extracto.take the offending side off,slice up from the bottom of each pipe on the extractor,but dont cut it off.leave it still joined,and you should be able to move all four pipes out to the right angle.then reweld or take to the muffler shop to reweld.if it is in the way,then it coud only be a cuople of mm.
dave
dave
#15
TerrA LX
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 07:22 AM
Be carefull of the fit of some of those "multi fit" ones, while looking at someones clutch the other day i seen that his starter solenoid was hitting the chassis.
#16
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 09:23 AM
Trust me guys the VR starter will not fit in there!,I'll get my pics up and show you what I mean my: Extractors run right over the left side of the solonoid,the soloniod angles to the left and fouls on the extractors but im running a T350 BOX and Turbo Pattern Block ,the extractors only just clear the bellhousing by a few mm!.I just hope to god that a CVR Adjustable one will fit!? as the standard Starter just will not start when the cars hot until it cools right down then has full crank power again! but in the 10 years ive had it I cant recall changing the strarter so its getting on but I really want a High Torque or Gear Reduction item in there,after reading the last post it sounds like even the CVR Starter could give me probs?.If I can get one to have the solonoid in the stock position(low left) it'll go right in!
#17
TerrA LX
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 10:25 AM
One auto elect suggested to me that a stock starter should cope and that the hot start probs are due to voltage and earthing problems.
#18
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 04:53 PM
Well I returned the VS Starter no probs,Ive done some more reasearch into High Torque starters for 308 and I rang good old Armadale Auto Parts and they said "yeh the VS Starters nearly allways hit on extractors of 308" I asked what else was available and they said you use a JAYLEC Starter motor which is High Torque and fits straight in but they wanted $400.00 for one ouch!! 
.I spoke to a company here in W.A who supplies these" Jaylec Starters" called of all things: Cooldrive! who do Aircons etc but also Alternators and Starters,heres the one Im purchasing http://www.cooldrive...arch-iseek.aspx . type in 70-0114 in the part no search box search box to see it
I rang Cooldrive direct and best price was $365.22,I then spoke to the bloke I know well at Repco where I was returning the VS Starter he made a call and I am now getting one of these Jalec Starters for $250.00 with bolts,Soloniod is located in exact stock position as the standard GMH item so will go straight in: Ive never heard of these until today but im pretty sure they wont be rubbish quality if Armadale Auto Parts are selling them and at $400.00 a pop= geeze if you know folks in the Austo Parts Business you can REALLY save some cash!....................
.I spoke to a company here in W.A who supplies these" Jaylec Starters" called of all things: Cooldrive! who do Aircons etc but also Alternators and Starters,heres the one Im purchasing http://www.cooldrive...arch-iseek.aspx . type in 70-0114 in the part no search box search box to see itI rang Cooldrive direct and best price was $365.22,I then spoke to the bloke I know well at Repco where I was returning the VS Starter he made a call and I am now getting one of these Jalec Starters for $250.00 with bolts,Soloniod is located in exact stock position as the standard GMH item so will go straight in: Ive never heard of these until today but im pretty sure they wont be rubbish quality if Armadale Auto Parts are selling them and at $400.00 a pop= geeze if you know folks in the Austo Parts Business you can REALLY save some cash!....................
Edited by 76S.L.R, 23 December 2008 - 05:00 PM.
#19
TerrA LX
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 05:08 PM
How much more torque does it have?
#20
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 23 December 2008 - 06:46 PM
I still dont know?,I shoud've asked the guy from Cooldrive when I was on the phone I just thought it would have to be better than standard GMH and need a new one so opted for this but ive emailed them to find out the specs as I cant find the info on their site or PDF's of their catalog pages= cant wait to get this sucker in so I can drive the Torry again especially being on holidays too and the rice burner's getting a bit boring to drive about and doesnt make that lovely 308 noiseHow much more torque does it have?
that everyone coments on when my car kicks over.Just gotta sort out why she's running hot now!...............
#21
_76S.L.R_
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 24 December 2008 - 07:22 PM
Guys I need help,Im useless!! I got the Jaylec Starter,it does bolt right in but has more/different terminals it had them listed on a photocopied page(not on Starter) as
A= Ignition Bypass Terminal?.
B= Battery terminal.
C=Soloniod Switching Terminal.
D= Motor Terminal.
I have 3 wires that have to go to the Starter,2 of them I know go directly to the B= Battery Terminal but theres the other wire that use to go to a spade bit on the old starter and had SW labeled on the old starter terminal so does this mean I just put this wire to the C= Solonoid Switching Terminal? and thats it.... I dont know what the A= Ignition Bypass terminal is for on the new starter,it says on the photocopied paper(old vehicles only). Oh and this is suposedly a HIGH TORQUE Starter but says the stock one is 1.4KW and this ones 1.7KW thats not much difference!! HELP
A= Ignition Bypass Terminal?.
B= Battery terminal.
C=Soloniod Switching Terminal.
D= Motor Terminal.
I have 3 wires that have to go to the Starter,2 of them I know go directly to the B= Battery Terminal but theres the other wire that use to go to a spade bit on the old starter and had SW labeled on the old starter terminal so does this mean I just put this wire to the C= Solonoid Switching Terminal? and thats it.... I dont know what the A= Ignition Bypass terminal is for on the new starter,it says on the photocopied paper(old vehicles only). Oh and this is suposedly a HIGH TORQUE Starter but says the stock one is 1.4KW and this ones 1.7KW thats not much difference!! HELP
#22
TerrA LX
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Posted 24 December 2008 - 08:11 PM
Hazard a guess and say the third wire goes to the C=Soloniod Switching Terminal.
KW sounds like a power out put, seeing it's higher it must have more torque.
KW sounds like a power out put, seeing it's higher it must have more torque.
#23
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 25 December 2008 - 01:35 PM
I dont know whats going on here but I put the 3rd wire to the C Terminal(Solonoid switching Terminal) it started to crank but car didnt fire up as it was cold,I tried again but then after the first go it just clicks and doesnt power now!?.I then tried the 3rd wire to the A terminal(Ingition Bypass Terminal,it says old vehicled only) and then it didnt even make a click(did nothing) so I dont know where to go from here?.Yes im mad its christmas day and Im working on the Torana
#24
_76S.L.R_
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Posted 26 December 2008 - 01:06 PM
Trying again today and cant get this starter Motor to go!!!!?,It just clicks loudly but wont actually work I even replace the wiring as I spoted ther big thick wire from the + Battery to the Starter had a burn through it where its touched on the exhaust at one point but still wont go,ive tried 3 different batterys too but still no go.What I cant figure out is why it was inially cranking over when I first tried it out now wont do anything except click,its brand new surely the solonoids not buggered already? is there anyway I can test the starter so I know if its starter or wiring?............
#25
Struggler
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Posted 26 December 2008 - 01:33 PM
Sorry, I've been away. I could have told you that the late model starter doesn't fit most early extractors.
As for your current problem (no pun intended), run a wire from the C terminal and try to crank the car by holding the wire on the pos. + side of the battery. If your engine cranks like a champ then your wiring is at fault. If it still plays up then the starter is at fault. I will bet your wiring is the problem and this is why you changed starters in the first place.
Try this simple test and let us know how you go. I'll be back online later tonight. Good luck.
As for your current problem (no pun intended), run a wire from the C terminal and try to crank the car by holding the wire on the pos. + side of the battery. If your engine cranks like a champ then your wiring is at fault. If it still plays up then the starter is at fault. I will bet your wiring is the problem and this is why you changed starters in the first place.
Try this simple test and let us know how you go. I'll be back online later tonight. Good luck.
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