1 other idea is to wire in an audiable warning in with the light. In case your eyeballs are occupied.
Wayne
Oil Pressure Senders
Started by
Tiny
, Dec 27 2008 11:04 AM
73 replies to this topic
#27
_SS Hatchback_
_SS Hatchback_
-
- Guests
Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:41 PM
I was actually thinking of doing this or having a switch inline and just turning the thermo fan relay power off whilst cranking but then i bought a dry cell battery (optima) and it cranks over easy anyway .But the oil pressure switch could be a good idea and another thing to remember is that the one oil pressure switch can be used to activate many things just use it to switch relays and bobs your uncle, even if switching on the pressure switch is ass about it can be used to drive a relay that has no/nc contacts , hope this doesnt confuse the situationWhile we are on the subject of thermo fans, does anyone see a benefit in using an oil pressure switch to actuate the thermo fans so the fans don't automatically start when you try to crank a hot engine? In this way the starter motor will get all the current and the fans will only turn on after you have oil pressure.
#28
_GMH355_
_GMH355_
-
- Guests
Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:46 PM
SS Hatchback, thanks for the feeback, I originally was going to use the oil pressure switch for the fuel pump. But how can I put this, the owner can be absent minded 
so I am hoping to wire the pump and fans in a way that switches can't be forgotten on or off. I agree with you about using the oil pressure switch to actuate relays for the fuel pump and fans.
I just noticed that the thermo fans sticky thread above discusses most of this stuff already
.
so I am hoping to wire the pump and fans in a way that switches can't be forgotten on or off. I agree with you about using the oil pressure switch to actuate relays for the fuel pump and fans.I just noticed that the thermo fans sticky thread above discusses most of this stuff already
.
#29
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:44 AM
Hijack away Frank! No worries!
Check out this thread for thermo fan info:
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=29374
I'm buying a mini pro lite and a 15Psi sender today from american autos if they have them!
Cheers guys! (Gotta run, will read the rest later!!)
Check out this thread for thermo fan info:
http://www.gmh-toran...showtopic=29374
I'm buying a mini pro lite and a 15Psi sender today from american autos if they have them!
Cheers guys! (Gotta run, will read the rest later!!)
#30
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:48 AM
hehe I should have read before i posted hey!
I'm going to use the oil pressure sender JUST to trigger the mini pro lite, and i want to buy a piezo buzzer from jaycar as well. As 2ELCS mentioned it can get a bit busy in the cockpit at times!
I'm Just going to use these as warning system with a 220c temperature sender triggering these warnings as well.
Cheers for the input guys, it's obvious alot of us are on the same track with these issues!
Thanks!
I'm going to use the oil pressure sender JUST to trigger the mini pro lite, and i want to buy a piezo buzzer from jaycar as well. As 2ELCS mentioned it can get a bit busy in the cockpit at times!
I'm Just going to use these as warning system with a 220c temperature sender triggering these warnings as well.
Cheers for the input guys, it's obvious alot of us are on the same track with these issues!
Thanks!
#31
_torbirdie_
_torbirdie_
-
- Guests
Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:35 AM
While we are on the subject of thermo fans, does anyone see a benefit in using an oil pressure switch to actuate the thermo fans so the fans don't automatically start when you try to crank a hot engine? In this way the starter motor will get all the current and the fans will only turn on after you have oil pressure.
Not a bad idea also for safety reasons to only have the fans wired so they will only trigger with the engine running.
I dont think using the low oil pressure switch will achieve your aims here though. When a motor is warm, it will typically achieve minimum oil pressure within a second of cranking, so if your car is being troublesome on warm starts you'll probably still trigger the electric fans.
However, you can easily achieve a good safe result with:(which may or may not be suggested in the preceding posts)
If you have your fan relays triggered from the accessories terminal(dies when you crank starter) and the trigger circuit completed by the temp switch and oil pressure switch in series then the fans will only work when the motor is spinning and will not work when the starter is being cranked.
Edited by torbirdie, 29 December 2008 - 08:38 AM.
#32
_Yella SLuR_
_Yella SLuR_
-
- Guests
Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:42 PM
Done by passing the signal through a second relay in the thermo circuit. The same system is used on race cars but in reverse to stop electric fuel pumps if the engine dies for whatever reason.
EDIT: Ah, you've covered this already.
EDIT: Ah, you've covered this already.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 29 December 2008 - 08:48 PM.
#33
_GMH355_
_GMH355_
-
- Guests
Posted 30 December 2008 - 08:58 PM
....I dont think using the low oil pressure switch will achieve your aims here though. When a motor is warm, it will typically achieve minimum oil pressure within a second of cranking, so if your car is being troublesome on warm starts you'll probably still trigger the electric fans.
However, you can easily achieve a good safe result with:(which may or may not be suggested in the preceding posts)
If you have your fan relays triggered from the accessories terminal(dies when you crank starter) and the trigger circuit completed by the temp switch and oil pressure switch in series then the fans will only work when the motor is spinning and will not work when the starter is being cranked....
I think you are right, the oil pressure switch operates at only 7psi, so a few seconds of cranking and the oil pressure will easily be over that. Thanks for the heads up about the accessories terminal option, sounds like a good idea
.
#34
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 30 December 2008 - 09:04 PM
I think you will find that the other topic says that the accesories circuit dies ( no power) while the key is turned to "Start" anyhow!
But this is sure a fail safe way!
Frank, How are you hiding all this wiring!? I'm currently drawing up to scale and aying out the dash! what a headache!
But this is sure a fail safe way!
Frank, How are you hiding all this wiring!? I'm currently drawing up to scale and aying out the dash! what a headache!
#35
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 30 December 2008 - 09:31 PM
Hey Guys,
I Just purchased Autometer Part No: http://www.autometer...il.aspx?vid=172 - 15Psi Pressure Switch to use for my oil pressure cut out/warning light/buzzer
It's only got one terminal so it's obviously internally earthed, so i'll provide it with power from the cabin through the light and buzzer.
The question i've got is, Should i use thread tape so as not to get any leaks or will this give me a bad earth!
I'm going to Tee off as the guys above have done for my guage and the sender and away we go!
Cheers yet again!
I Just purchased Autometer Part No: http://www.autometer...il.aspx?vid=172 - 15Psi Pressure Switch to use for my oil pressure cut out/warning light/buzzer
It's only got one terminal so it's obviously internally earthed, so i'll provide it with power from the cabin through the light and buzzer.
The question i've got is, Should i use thread tape so as not to get any leaks or will this give me a bad earth!
I'm going to Tee off as the guys above have done for my guage and the sender and away we go!
Cheers yet again!
#36
_GMH355_
_GMH355_
-
- Guests
Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:04 PM
Thanks Tiny, so much good information, and unfortunately overlook important bits sometimes. The accessory option should have been obvious because the engineers that designed the ignition system already did the work for us.
Who said anything about hiding the wiring,. I read in your other thread that you are using autocad, that's too advanced for me, sounds cool though. Ant installed an earth wiring kit around a year ago that comprises something like 5 earthing wires to various parts of the engine bay. So you could say he has done the opposite of hiding the wiring by making it more obvious. I am currently just working out what parts I need and whats missing. The forum is a good way to bounce ideas off others and on some occassions look like a dope .
I am working on the car whenever I have some free time, its going to be a while before I finish.
How did you go sourcing all the parts at American Autos?
I don't usually use thread tape. I had good results with Loctite No.3 AVIATION GASKET SEALANT, advertising spiel "A reliable liquid gasket sealant, dressing and coating compound. It brushes on very thinly and forms seals that resists temperatures of -65� to 400�F (-54�C to 204�C). It�s resistant to gasoline, oils, and other solvents and is inert so that it will not interact with other chemicals. It dries to full strength in just under 12 hours"
Who said anything about hiding the wiring,
. I read in your other thread that you are using autocad, that's too advanced for me, sounds cool though. Ant installed an earth wiring kit around a year ago that comprises something like 5 earthing wires to various parts of the engine bay. So you could say he has done the opposite of hiding the wiring by making it more obvious. I am currently just working out what parts I need and whats missing. The forum is a good way to bounce ideas off others and on some occassions look like a dope . I am working on the car whenever I have some free time, its going to be a while before I finish.
How did you go sourcing all the parts at American Autos?
I don't usually use thread tape. I had good results with Loctite No.3 AVIATION GASKET SEALANT, advertising spiel "A reliable liquid gasket sealant, dressing and coating compound. It brushes on very thinly and forms seals that resists temperatures of -65� to 400�F (-54�C to 204�C). It�s resistant to gasoline, oils, and other solvents and is inert so that it will not interact with other chemicals. It dries to full strength in just under 12 hours"
#37
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:16 PM
Hey Thanks frank!
Mate, I'm really good at looking like a dope! I just planned everything out... and then realised it wont bloody well work! LOL!
I think i've finally brain stormed it out now, and using WhyPSI's schematic and adding a few more switches ( just for my own personal satisfaction - two cutouts).
I'll draw up the Schematic and post it so you can all show me where i've overlooked this time! heheh!
American Autos were less than helpful! They didnt have the prolite warning light, and couldnt tell me if/when one was coming in, So i'm re-using my old line lock warning light which is bloody bright anyways as my main warning light, I also got a Piezo Buzzer too.
I got the Autometer pressure sender though and i kinda wish i had gotten yours or the hobb switch that Hayden mentioned! Would have made my wiring easier for the pumps/lights etc with the various on/off combinations in them.
Anyway... Fool me i guess.. It just makes it slightly harder and i get to use WhyPSI's system above!
I might have to get some of that sealant I used master thread sealant previously but my tube leaked and so it's buggered.
Cheers again mate!
Tiny.
Mate, I'm really good at looking like a dope! I just planned everything out... and then realised it wont bloody well work! LOL!
I think i've finally brain stormed it out now, and using WhyPSI's schematic and adding a few more switches ( just for my own personal satisfaction - two cutouts).
I'll draw up the Schematic and post it so you can all show me where i've overlooked this time! heheh!
American Autos were less than helpful! They didnt have the prolite warning light, and couldnt tell me if/when one was coming in, So i'm re-using my old line lock warning light which is bloody bright anyways as my main warning light, I also got a Piezo Buzzer too.
I got the Autometer pressure sender though and i kinda wish i had gotten yours or the hobb switch that Hayden mentioned! Would have made my wiring easier for the pumps/lights etc with the various on/off combinations in them.
Anyway... Fool me i guess.. It just makes it slightly harder and i get to use WhyPSI's system above!
I might have to get some of that sealant I used master thread sealant previously but my tube leaked and so it's buggered.
Cheers again mate!
Tiny.
#38
_why-psi_
_why-psi_
-
- Guests
Posted 31 December 2008 - 04:34 PM
[quote name='Tiny' date='Dec 30 2008, 10:31 PM' post='356618']
It's only got one terminal so it's obviously internally earthed, so i'll provide it with power from the cabin through the light and buzzer.
Tiny, make sure you provide the buzzer and light with the +12v ign power and use the pressure switch to switch the earth. otherwise you would have a dead short
It's only got one terminal so it's obviously internally earthed, so i'll provide it with power from the cabin through the light and buzzer.
Tiny, make sure you provide the buzzer and light with the +12v ign power and use the pressure switch to switch the earth. otherwise you would have a dead short
#39
_torbirdie_
_torbirdie_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 January 2009 - 02:37 AM
The question i've got is, Should i use thread tape so as not to get any leaks or will this give me a bad earth!
Good question. Ive always found that tpieces with oil leaked and put normal plumbers thread tape on them.
Never gave the earthing question a second thought as both the gauges and warning switches worked with no problems.
There obviously must have been enough metal on metal to make them work. I suppose it would be possible to put enough tape on them and not over tighten them to insulate perfectly, but in practice I reckon it would be difficult to achieve.
Edited by torbirdie, 01 January 2009 - 02:38 AM.
#40
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 11:42 AM
Thanks WhyPsi and Torbirdie!
I've put a TONNE of thought into this and thanks to your efforts I belive i've come up with the right circuit to use!
Now i want to add a 220 degree thermo sender to trigger the warning light and buzzer too but i think this calls for yet another relay and more engine bay wiring.. so i'm undecided on that just at the moment!
Cheers again gents!
I've put a TONNE of thought into this and thanks to your efforts I belive i've come up with the right circuit to use!
Now i want to add a 220 degree thermo sender to trigger the warning light and buzzer too but i think this calls for yet another relay and more engine bay wiring.. so i'm undecided on that just at the moment!
Cheers again gents!
#41
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:55 PM
Ok Guys,
If you have a chance to work this one through it would be greatly appreciated!
Check this Schematic and let me know if and where i've buggered up. I Based it on WhyPSI's drawing and added switches, Lights, Warning Buzzer and the Thermo sensor to trigger the warnings too. Of course that's optional but i thought i'd add it here because this encompases the oil pressure warning system too!
I drew all this on Autocad from scratch because i'm trying to teach myself Autocad and this was a good exercise!
Cheers
If you have a chance to work this one through it would be greatly appreciated!
Check this Schematic and let me know if and where i've buggered up. I Based it on WhyPSI's drawing and added switches, Lights, Warning Buzzer and the Thermo sensor to trigger the warnings too. Of course that's optional but i thought i'd add it here because this encompases the oil pressure warning system too!
I drew all this on Autocad from scratch because i'm trying to teach myself Autocad and this was a good exercise!
Cheers
Attached Files
-
Wiring_Diagram_Fuel_Pump_and_Warnings.pdf 41.23K
22 downloads
#42
_torbirdie_
_torbirdie_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:30 PM
Ok Guys,
If you have a chance to work this one through it would be greatly appreciated!
Check this Schematic and let me know if and where i've buggered up. I Based it on WhyPSI's drawing and added switches, Lights, Warning Buzzer and the Thermo sensor to trigger the warnings too. Of course that's optional but i thought i'd add it here because this encompases the oil pressure warning system too!
I drew all this on Autocad from scratch because i'm trying to teach myself Autocad and this was a good exercise!
Cheers
Just had a quick look Tiny
It looks like it will all work, though Im not sure about:
Your oil pressure switch has to be closed to get the fuel pumps to operate? so you'll need the opposite of a conventional switch(perhaps youve already mentioned that)
It looks like two too many relays to me, Id be working on trying to get it to all work with only one, not that Im absolutely sure its possible, but a bit more thinking at this stage, makes life simpler down the track in a few years when you are trying to sort problem etc.
Do you want the buzzer sounding when the ignition is in the on position and the motor stopped, could get irritating.
#43
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:48 PM
All very good points and thanks for taking the time to look through it!
To answer your questions:
Relays - I agree it's a REALLY complex circuit, but i couldnt come up with any other way unfortunately! I currently have a relay down the back of the car already to run the pump, so the relay near the pump on teh diagram is already in situ so that's a bonus for me. Unfortunately i had to add another relay for the temperature sensor to trigger the lights as i couldnt find any other way to use the same warning light/buzzer.
I dont quite understand what you mean by "need the opposite of a conventional switch" in relation to the oil pressure switch. It's a NO switch meaning with oil pressire <15Psi there is no earth path. The prime button gives an alternative earth path to trigger the 5 pole relay (Main Relay we might call it) to prime the pump.
The Buzzer/Light wont operate when the ignition is in the off position and i have to confirm whether the ACC portion of the ignition switch activates this wire as well, or only the ON portion. However with the dash mounted fuel pump isolation switch, if that is OFF (open) then no power can flow between the +12v Ignition switched feed and terminal 30 on the main relay thus not allowing the buzzer/light to operate!
So even if ACC circuit powers this circuit, i can still turn the pump AND warnings off by turning off (opening) the isolator switch.
Hmmm.. Just had a thought, and if we are on ACC and the temp sensor is closed.. then we still get buzzer and warning light! Bugger!!
Have to think about that one! Thanks!
To answer your questions:
Relays - I agree it's a REALLY complex circuit, but i couldnt come up with any other way unfortunately! I currently have a relay down the back of the car already to run the pump, so the relay near the pump on teh diagram is already in situ so that's a bonus for me. Unfortunately i had to add another relay for the temperature sensor to trigger the lights as i couldnt find any other way to use the same warning light/buzzer.
I dont quite understand what you mean by "need the opposite of a conventional switch" in relation to the oil pressure switch. It's a NO switch meaning with oil pressire <15Psi there is no earth path. The prime button gives an alternative earth path to trigger the 5 pole relay (Main Relay we might call it) to prime the pump.
The Buzzer/Light wont operate when the ignition is in the off position and i have to confirm whether the ACC portion of the ignition switch activates this wire as well, or only the ON portion. However with the dash mounted fuel pump isolation switch, if that is OFF (open) then no power can flow between the +12v Ignition switched feed and terminal 30 on the main relay thus not allowing the buzzer/light to operate!
So even if ACC circuit powers this circuit, i can still turn the pump AND warnings off by turning off (opening) the isolator switch.
Hmmm.. Just had a thought, and if we are on ACC and the temp sensor is closed.. then we still get buzzer and warning light! Bugger!!
Have to think about that one! Thanks!
#44
_why-psi_
_why-psi_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:01 PM
scematic should work fine but just need to swap pins 87 and 87A on the bottom doublepole relay otherwise you have a warning light and buzzer to indicate that you HAVE oil pressure ( that is if <15psi the sender provides earth path like autometer sender i have) otherwise seems it will work fine. i got around the problem of the ACC by not having ACC as i have no stereo and the overhead switchpanel. only thing i can come up with is to have the earth to the buzzer switch when the car is in gear so that way in park engine off no oil pressure no buzzer, in D-2-1 engine off no oil pressure buzzer goes mental. sorta like the the neutral start safety switch but the opposite. if u get me.
Edited by why-psi, 01 January 2009 - 05:08 PM.
#45
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:08 PM
Thanks Whypsi,
Unfortunately i do want/need the ACC setup as it's as much a cruiser as a race car for me, but i can understand where you're coming from!
I like the idea of using the Neutral cut out switch.... I get exactly what you mean... I'm going to have to think about how i might be able to integrate that idea!
I contemplated using another "hidden" switch to completely isolate the buzzer and light so if they annoy you you cna turn them off.. but if accidentally left off that could have disastrous consequences!
In relation to swapping the terminals of the Relay, I checked the Tridon Catalogue, and *IF* i read the diagram right on their catalogue that's the way it is wired! the 87A terminal is the contacted terminal when the coil is NOT energised ( relay in it's relaxed state).
Cheers!
Unfortunately i do want/need the ACC setup as it's as much a cruiser as a race car for me, but i can understand where you're coming from!
I like the idea of using the Neutral cut out switch.... I get exactly what you mean... I'm going to have to think about how i might be able to integrate that idea!
I contemplated using another "hidden" switch to completely isolate the buzzer and light so if they annoy you you cna turn them off.. but if accidentally left off that could have disastrous consequences!
In relation to swapping the terminals of the Relay, I checked the Tridon Catalogue, and *IF* i read the diagram right on their catalogue that's the way it is wired! the 87A terminal is the contacted terminal when the coil is NOT energised ( relay in it's relaxed state).
Cheers!
#46
_why-psi_
_why-psi_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:19 PM
might haveto be something like a bracket and microswitch which gets triggered as the shift lever moves through 1-2-D or 1-D if u have a glide 
if you find the buzzer and lights work backwards, its easy fix just swap those 2. mine was a lot of fiddling-test light probing-testing-checking... but worked out in the end! u shuld be fine! and safer
if you find the buzzer and lights work backwards, its easy fix just swap those 2. mine was a lot of fiddling-test light probing-testing-checking... but worked out in the end! u shuld be fine! and safer
#47
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:22 PM
Luckily i've got a B+M Pro Ratchet which uses micro switches for the cutouts! So i might be able to tap into that to make it work!
And yeah, i have NO doubt there is going to be alot of probing testing and checking!
I'm going to use ALOT of connectors so that i can pull out the dash, Unclip all the wiring and remove the guages really easily rather than having to cut wires, or disconnect guages individually! Hopefully this will make my life easier in the future!
Cheers again mate!
And yeah, i have NO doubt there is going to be alot of probing testing and checking!
I'm going to use ALOT of connectors so that i can pull out the dash, Unclip all the wiring and remove the guages really easily rather than having to cut wires, or disconnect guages individually! Hopefully this will make my life easier in the future!
Cheers again mate!
#49
Tiny
-
- Administrators
-
- 10,018 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Tiny
- Location:Sydney
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:31 PM
You Blokes have been a MASSIVE help and this is why i love these forums so much!
Hopefully we can catch up some time and i can shout you a an orange juice or something! hehe!
Cheers!
Hopefully we can catch up some time and i can shout you a an orange juice or something! hehe!
Cheers!
#50
_SS Hatchback_
_SS Hatchback_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 January 2009 - 06:49 PM
Ok Guys,
If you have a chance to work this one through it would be greatly appreciated!
Check this Schematic and let me know if and where i've buggered up. I Based it on WhyPSI's drawing and added switches, Lights, Warning Buzzer and the Thermo sensor to trigger the warnings too. Of course that's optional but i thought i'd add it here because this encompases the oil pressure warning system too!
I drew all this on Autocad from scratch because i'm trying to teach myself Autocad and this was a good exercise!
Cheers
First let me say nice autocad skills
and just a couple of things for you 1 - Dont forget the resistor in series with the LED , 560ohms otherwise the led will blow
2 - Dont forget to fuse the Batt 12v going to terminal 30 on the fuel pump relay
3 - If 87a on the relay is the n/c contact then it will only buzz and light while the oil pressure is low so that part should be right
4 - Check the temp sender to see at which state it is closed to earth, i have seen a few that have earth below the temp setting and then open circuit when the temp is reached. Basically check your temp sender with a multimeter while out of the car from the connection point to the body if you have continuity then the buzzer and light will be on constantly and turn off when your overheating. If your temp sender is earthed at resting then change the relay for the temp warning to one with the 87a terminal aswell and connect it to there which will fix the issue, hope this makes sense
Ever thought of having seperate warning buzzers and lights for the oil and temp?
2 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users
