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Carbon Fibre lh/lx doors

Started by _2runa_ , Jan 16 2009 10:54 PM

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#1 _2runa_

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 10:54 PM

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This is a carbon fibre door for a lx coupe would it be street legal??? think he has other panels as well.

Edited by 2runa, 16 January 2009 - 11:02 PM.

#2 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 11:16 PM

It would require a side intrusion bar to comply with ADR29. Under the NCOP there is provision for composite material replacement panels to by approved for post 1970 vehicles if they meet the standards. The door must be laid up under supervision before testing.

See page 9 and 39 of this document.
NCOP6 Section LH Body Modifications 3 Feb 2006

ADR29

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 16 January 2009 - 11:19 PM.

#3 _Toranamuk_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:52 AM

As stated above, the door must meet the requirements of ADR 29, although an Independent certified engineer can sign it off if they believe it "Meets the Intent" of ADR 29 with out specific testing, the same way the 15+ year old imports are supposedly complied to meet ADR requirements.

It is only the RORS imports that required specific load & impact testing to prove compliance rquirements.

Craig

#4 GML-31

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:02 AM

out of interest how much are they?

#5 _prrojo_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:08 AM

does this guy make them,or know who does,?

#6 _2runa_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:16 AM

does this guy make them,or know who does,?

I think he has priced them at $1200NZD they would be expenceive because of the c/fibre

#7 _prrojo_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:32 AM

thats not too bad considering all thats involved,it's just if you want to spend 2k on saveing(about 30-40kg ? ) , stripped out steel doors can be fairly light.

#8 _PRO-192_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:10 AM

as the intrusion bar would obviously be a bolt in type, dont think i would like to be in the seat to "test" its efficiency lol

thats not too bad considering all thats involved,it's just if you want to spend 2k on saveing(about 30-40kg ? ) , stripped out steel doors can be fairly light.


i couldnt see anyone doing this to save on weight moreso for rust imo

and how thick are the seams where the 2 halves are bonded?? imo they would need to be fairly thick (around 1/4") and therefore make them ugly and cause problems with improper fitment like all the bonnets we fit onto cars(monaro copies/skyline/180/saliva etc)... ugly and a woftam imo...

in saying that these would be great for a race car application...

micko

#9 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:52 AM

If you went to the trouble of making carbon fibre doors, would you not mould the intrusion bar in carbon fibre when fabricating the door? It is not hard to do when you lay the door up, can use styrene to form it up, then melt the styrene out if you really want after woulds (can't remember the chemical that melts styrene).

#10 Heath

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:23 AM

If you went to the trouble of making carbon fibre doors, would you not mould the intrusion bar in carbon fibre when fabricating the door?

I bet you he wasn't planning on them being used on the street; for a racecar that would just be more weight. Every racecar should have a bar in its rollcage spanning between the A and B pillars which eliminates the need for anything like that.

And wouldn't a carbon fibre intrusion bar be next to useless anyway? I might be wrong there. I know it's a hell of a lot stronger than fibreglass but I didn't think it was that great, especially if the skin isn't held onto the frame well, or if the frame is dodgy...

#11 76lxhatch

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:01 PM

They look reasonable to me, more info here:

http://www.trademe.c...px?id=197853385

#12 _PRO-192_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 03:46 PM

If you went to the trouble of making carbon fibre doors, would you not mould the intrusion bar in carbon fibre when fabricating the door? It is not hard to do when you lay the door up, can use styrene to form it up, then melt the styrene out if you really want after woulds (can't remember the chemical that melts styrene).



again i would hate to be sitting in the seat that this gets tested on lol... making "braces" out of styrene etc does nothing more than simply make the panel more rigid and would/does break with very little weight... just about all solvents will melt styrene...

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#13 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 04:28 PM

Mmm, you guys don't know much about GRP (Glass Reinforced Products). Styrene is just used as a shape former, it it the carbon fibre and resin over the top of it + shape(depth) that gives the strength.

Other uses are in the racing yacht masts.

Carbon fibre, if done correctly is stronger than any steel, and a whole heap lighter. There is currently a world shortage in Carbon Fibre, as it is one of the main materials used in the manufacture of the A380, which is how they get the great shape in the new wings.

Mmmm, I give up.

Edited by Yella SLuR, 17 January 2009 - 04:29 PM.

#14 _Baronvonrort_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:21 PM

Posted Image
This is a carbon fibre door for a lx coupe would it be street legal??? think he has other panels as well.


If you painted it to match the car how would anyone know it wasnt an original holden door?
"Well i will be f@cked officer i didnt know it had these when i bought it"

4.2 kg is pretty light and depending on resin/fibre ration a lot of carbon for the money being asked and unlikely to ever see this cheap again.I bet the glass,locks,handles and window winders and door hinges weigh more.

Side intrusion ADR's can be met easily with composites if required and the lotus elise/exige uses a composite crash box in the nose to easily pass crash tests.

#15 surfmaster

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:22 PM

My pushbike is 100% carbon fibre, it carries my fat backside around with no problems and is super light. I cant see a problem with carbon fibre car doors if they fit and open ok, they will never rust that's for sure.

#16 _Baronvonrort_

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:28 PM

Carbon fibre, if done correctly is stronger than any steel, and a whole heap lighter.


Yep the Ultimate Tensile strength of a good high tensile steel is around 590 mega pascals.The UTS for a good carbon fibre/resin is around 5.5 giga pascals.

#17 surfmaster

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:33 PM

Yep the Ultimate Tensile strength of a good high tensile steel is around 590 mega pascals.The UTS for a good carbon fibre/resin is around 5.5 giga pascals.



It almost sounds like it will fit on a hard drive. :D

#18 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:09 AM

^ you bragging about the size of your hard drive again? :)

#19 _Pallbag_

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:30 AM

I know stuff all about this subject, but arent the drivers cockpits in the F1 cars made of carbon fibre coz they're unbreakable?

#20 makka

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 08:31 AM

hell, you could just make your own Carbon intrusion bars, I used to make carbon/aramid tubing and its a lot stronger than you will give it credit for Micko

#21 _2runa_

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 09:00 AM

The finish on the this door looks great, as far as fit, carbon fibre is not as thick as fibre glass and it should mount up really well .
I believe he is in the process of making the rear hatch door and the bonnet :clap:

#22 ollie

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 11:31 AM

If you were to make the intrusion bars, you would make them out of kevlar, much higher impact toughness. I remember some open wheel race teams wrap their carbon wishbones in kevlar for extra toughness.

door looks like a fine bit of work...

#23 enderwigginau

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:00 PM

It's not the tensile strength I'd be worried about, moreso the flexural.
Pat/Baron, what is the average flex strength of straight c/f?

I was under the impression that masts and wings, etc, needed spars of alloy or somesuch to aid the flex strength.

And how would it go under impact?
When it does go, c/f becomes razor shards too doesn't it?

Bit of extra infofor the old brain bucket. Carbon fibre is one of the few things I haven't ahd the chance to test.
Thanks fellas,

Grant..

#24 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:41 PM

Yup, that is the current point of contention with current carbon fibre race seats ---> too rigid. It's all about finding that balance.

#25 TUF 308

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 05:36 PM

And how would it go under impact?
When it does go, c/f becomes razor shards too doesn't it?

Grant..


Yep razor sharp. thats why they do the woven kevlar/carbon fabrics so when the carbon lets go the kevlar holds it all together.
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