34 replies to this topic

[Heath]

Con: Cost and difficulty of conversion
Pro: Everything else

lol sorry

[myss427]

A couple of my friends doing this conversion now, best horse power per dollar con out there. Not hard if you take advise from people who have done it!

[ls2lxhatch]

The problem with an LS2 is the cost of the components required to fit it in a Torana. You would be doing well to fit the engine for less than $5000.

EFI fuel system
Computers and wiring harness
Cats
Extractors
Starter, Alternator, belts
Engine mounts
Oil pan

I think you will find that if you price up fitting a carby 308/355 stroker or a 350 SBC you will be miles in front. Unless you are building a daily driver I would fit a 355.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 23 March 2009 - 12:23 PM.

[Growla]

I'm with LS2LXHatch on this, go for 355 so much easier.

[myss427]

I don't know if it would be heaps cheaper considering he has a 6 now, so the whole drive train needs to be updated. You can haggle with Holmart on an L98 for under $4,000 new 6 spd Gearbox for $2,500 sump from America for $500 landed ( my friends payed this much), wiring from castle for $1200 a few grand for bits pieces, extractors. On a budget you could do it for around $10,000. You will spend close to that for a very hot stroker if you want 400 horses at the tyres then you have to buy all the strong drive line bits pieces, extractors to handle that any way.

Edited by myss427, 25 March 2009 - 12:10 PM.

[ls2lxhatch]

Computer $400
Computer VAT delete and tune $450 or MAFless tune $800+
MAF $200 if using MAF tune
Wiring harness $1200
Alternator $450
Belts and pulleys $200
Oil Pan $600
Starter $350
Headers $880+
Cats $500
Engine mounts $250+
Fuel system $500-$2000
inline speed sensor $480.00 ( Tells the computer how fast the car is going ). If you use an electronic gearbox this can be deleted but then you will need an electronic speedo conversion $700.
Air Intake system $200+
Oxygen Sensors ( 2 x $100 )
Conservative Total $6800

I am not aware of a good off the shelf kit that includes headers to fit an LS engine in an LX Torana. Unless you use the CAE kit you will be up for custom extractors which will cost $1500+. If you do use the CAE header then you have to use their engine mounts, starter and oil pan.

I have spent way more than $6800 on the above parts fitting my engine.

With a conservative budget of $11,000 then I think the 355 and SBC options are worth looking at. You may not get 400 rwhp, but you will have more HP than you can use on street tyres. If you do decide to go down the LS engine option at least you will know what you are getting into.

[GML-31]

why go injection, just buy a carby manifold and holley for the old skool look for your LS2

you may be down 30 or so h/p with carby but it saves a lot on harness etc..

Edited by GML-31, 26 March 2009 - 09:16 AM.

[myss427]

When they have a 230 plus degree cam they sound wonderful at wide open throttle!

[ls2lxhatch]

why go injection, just buy a carby manifold and holley for the old skool look for your LS2

In WA under the NCOP it is not legal to replace EFI with a carby on an engine swap. I think you will find it is the same in all states, it is basically the same rule that makes you run cats on a Torana if you fit a late model engine.

[myss427]

You can use all the pulleys, some use an idler some don't. No power steer pump in the system. The best system I have seen so far is one the LS2 yellow G-Pack, his was a slight mod to all the existing pulley's with machining one bolt to miss the belt.

[yel327]

Although the idea of a 600hp 427 cube COME "Sledgehammer" in an LH/LX would be unreal, I'd tend to agree with the guys on the Holden 308 stroked to 350 (or bigger). COME do a 377 or 390 cube version as well (383 or 396 at +0.030). One of these would look more at home and could be a real sleeper if you left red top end on it. Heaps easy to fit as well.
As for LS1/LS2/LS3, if the engine you buy is a true "crate" motor ie it didn't originate in a car you can fit it to an LH in NSW without cats etc. Only has to comply with ADR27. Little loophole which I intend to exploit in my HK, as the BBC block I have was a crate engine before it was put into a Chev truck. Hence HK emissions laws apply.

[ls2lxhatch]

1) Is it a better alternative to buy a brand new L98 fr $9000 with all the wiring harness and computer than an LS2 without and have to worry about the issues of buying after market?

2) Maybe a silly question but why do you need to replace all the pulleys and alternator with the LS2, do the standard ones not fit in the torana's engine bay?

Most crate engines do not include alternator, idler pulley, power steering pump, belt tensioner or belt. If you are not going to run power steering then you need to replace the power steering pump with an idler pulley.

The $200 covers the belt tensioner, idler pulley and a belt. A poorly made power steering idler from CAE will cost $195, the alternator and bracket will cost around $450.

The $1200 CAE charges for the wiring harness is made up of $400 for a factory harness and then $800 to modify the harness to suit an engine swap.

The cost of the LS2 computer verses the LS1 computer for the L98 may make the L98 a cheaper option.

The LS2 can be run using a cable throttle body, LS1 computer, LS1 knock sensors and an LS1 24 tooth reluctor. (I think LS1LX has his LS2 setup this way). The cable throttle body will cost around $1000 and the IAC and TPS will cost another $400 (from memory). However in WA, if you do not run the DBW throttle body and factory computer then you are required to pass an emissions test. I have been told this test costs $2000+.

The crate engine loophole does not appear to exist in WA under the NCOP. I have heard people talk about the loophole in NSW, however I have not heard of anyone who has had a car engineered using the loophole.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 26 March 2009 - 02:50 PM.

[lakeside]

you need spend aleast a couple of grand in brakes as well.

[yel327]

The crate engine loophole does not appear to exist in WA under the NCOP. I have heard people talk about the loophole in NSW, however I have not heard of anyone who has had a car engineered using the loophole.

I think loophole is probably the wrong terminology (although I used it!). From what I can see it's probably a correct application of the laws. For example, in about 1990 you could still buy a new WB 1-tonner chassis. They were blank (ie no chassis number) and could be used in a HQ without having to run WB ADR's. Even though they were built for WB it fitted the HQ. Same with a new crate engine (or a new block for that matter). If you buy a brand new aftermarket 350 block and build it up to a motor, what you've just done is rebuild a 1968 engine using a new part, but the thing that might be tricky is building up an LS1/2/3 using a new block since these engines didn't exist pre emmissions. With the BBC for my HK, it's an RTA Engineer that told me that as long as the evidence shows the block is from a crate engine then all is sweet.

[ls2lxhatch]

How you explained it the rules is also how I understood the situation to be under the NCOP. The grey area with crate engines and replacement blocks is determining what year emission rules to apply. In the case of the 308, SBC and BBC there is room to manoeuvre to your advantage.

However as you point out I also struggle to see how you can argue that the Gen III is a 1976 replacement part when the Gen III LS engine was not introduced until 1997. This is why I am interested to hear if anyone has been successful engineering a Gen III with a carby or without CATS in NSW.

I have been told by the engineering section in WA that under the NCOP the Gen III crate engines have to run EFI and CATS.

[LS1LX]

You can use all the pulleys, some use an idler some don't. No power steer pump in the system. The best system I have seen so far is one the LS2 yellow G-Pack, his was a slight mod to all the existing pulley's with machining one bolt to miss the belt.

Do you mean my LS2 yellow Sunbird, they way I routed the belts and the alternator bracket? Or is there a yellow Gpack thats cloning me

[LS1LX]

How you explained it the rules is also how I understood the situation to be under the NCOP. The grey area with crate engines and replacement blocks is determining what year emission rules to apply. In the case of the 308, SBC and BBC there is room to manoeuvre to your advantage.

However as you point out I also struggle to see how you can argue that the Gen III is a 1976 replacement part when the Gen III LS engine was not introduced until 1997. This is why I am interested to hear if anyone has been successful engineering a Gen III with a carby or without CATS in NSW.

I have been told by the engineering section in WA that under the NCOP the Gen III crate engines have to run EFI and CATS.

Andy, these guys you see running a LSx type engine with carby, there conversions are not engineered, most are still registered with a 6 cylinder, its all fun and games til a cop pulls them over or there involved in a prang and thats when the shit hits the fans.

Do it the right way, I know it takes longer, it took me 2 years, but in the end its well worth it when you have the papers to back you up and you dont have to worry.

[LS1LX]

Save some time and a mountain of effort, buy my LX and put a nice 232 camshaft in it, you'll get your 400hp at the wheels and its got all the gear to withstand it.

Save yourself 3 years of blood, sweat, tears, cursing, phone calls, arguments, point of breaking, etc.

Just put fuel in and drive

Edited by LS1LX, 27 March 2009 - 08:26 PM.

[MRLXSS]

Well, After attending Easternats over the weekend, and going in a mates commodore, With an LS1 (with just a cam, mafless tune and upgraded valve springs) that has 280rwkw... I was mega, mega keen to look down this path again...

But now, after reading this thread... The idea has soured a bit... I like the idea of being different to the majority, and having a super drivable and streetable motor. But then, I also don't want a long term project that will take my car off the road for a few years! I want to do something that will only take me a few months to tackle and have the car back on the road.

O well, the thought was nice while it lasted... LOL