Hey guys,
My new engine (done about 700kms) is breathing heavily out the breathers on the rocker cover and im a little concerned.
Until yesterday ive had a breather cap in one hole and a pcv valve with a rubber hose going into the manifold. No oil was coming out. Though when i take the pcv off, and put 2 breathers on, oil pisses out both. So that means that the pcv was sucking the oil through. Obviously i dont want to be burning oil so id like to avoid using that setup.
Its a brand new engine, that has been run in properly. The only thing i can think of is that the rocker cover is too short, and the rocker rollers are pushing the oil straight out..? I have a taller rocker cover at home i will try this afternoon.
Can you guys please let me know how youve set yours up? Whats the best setup for breathing on a 202?
Thanks,
A1
Engine breathing question..
Started by
_draglc_
, Mar 14 2006 08:47 AM
32 replies to this topic
#2
mrlctorana
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:07 AM
I have the same problem!!!! Im also running roller rockers with a standard chrome rocker cover and would like to steer clear of the hose going to the manifold, so a mate of mine is putting a catch tank together for me and we are going to run 2 hoses from the rocker cover to the catch tank, with a breather in the catch tank.
Will this setup be very effective?
Cheers
Les
Will this setup be very effective?
Cheers
Les
#3
_draglc_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:11 PM
Well i have thought of that also, but if i was doing that, i would have a hose going from the bottom of the catch can, into the mech fuel pump hole in the block, to allow oil to return to the sump. Only problem is that id have to go electric pump, which i plan to do, just not yet.
Im still hoping that a taller rocker cover will fix the problem.
A1
Im still hoping that a taller rocker cover will fix the problem.
A1
#4
_Jewboy_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:17 PM
Make sure your rockercover has a baffle plate over the hole so that it can't go straight out. You need the PCV anyway, if the motor is fine you will burn hardly any oil, also it reduced the pressure inside which is why your now spewing oil out without it. You might need to clean the PCV or replace as it might not be working.
#5
_draglc_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:26 PM
The pcv is working fine, and there are baffles in the holes. With 2 breathers i would think that the pressure would be fine?
A1
A1
#6
FastEHHolden
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:29 PM
What style of rocker cover do you have the 2 hole or 3 hole?
If it is 2 hole you should have a breather style cap and the pcv or 'hockey stick" draft tube.
If you have the 3 hole style you should have a closed cap, a breather tube to the air cleaner and a pcv.
If it is 2 hole you should have a breather style cap and the pcv or 'hockey stick" draft tube.
If you have the 3 hole style you should have a closed cap, a breather tube to the air cleaner and a pcv.
#7
LXCHEV
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 02:06 PM
If the ring gaps are correct, the bores are good, and everything has bedded in nicely, there should be very minimal blow-by, and you should be able to run breathers on the rocker cover with no drama's (ie. without oil/fumes pumping out).
I see you've only done 700km's so far. I thought this should be plenty, but perhaps get another few hundred km's clocked up and see if it settles down. If you want to get really keen, perform a leak-down test on the engine - this will show you the true indication of the condition of your rings/valves etc.
I see you've only done 700km's so far. I thought this should be plenty, but perhaps get another few hundred km's clocked up and see if it settles down. If you want to get really keen, perform a leak-down test on the engine - this will show you the true indication of the condition of your rings/valves etc.
#8
_Dirty Deeds_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 02:34 PM
Interesting read...
Im running modified (tall) rocker covers on old style heads.
By modified I mean that I have 1 K & N filter on each bank.
My engine is a heavy breather and I have been told that this is due to my exhaust system being inadequate. The engine is burning the gases but the exhaust is not disposing them properly.
My exhaust is Pacemaker extractors ( 4 into 1 ) into 2.5 inch pipe all the way through. I also run 4 standard ( walker ) mufflers.
Im not worried about the blow-by, I guess you get used to it after a while.
Im running modified (tall) rocker covers on old style heads.
By modified I mean that I have 1 K & N filter on each bank.
My engine is a heavy breather and I have been told that this is due to my exhaust system being inadequate. The engine is burning the gases but the exhaust is not disposing them properly.
My exhaust is Pacemaker extractors ( 4 into 1 ) into 2.5 inch pipe all the way through. I also run 4 standard ( walker ) mufflers.
Im not worried about the blow-by, I guess you get used to it after a while.
#9
_jap-xu1_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:04 PM
how was it run in?
dont tell me you babied it
dont tell me you babied it
#10
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:19 PM
Sounds like you are getting a build up of pressure in the crank case. Could be an issue till the rings bed in properly, assuming that heads are compatible with block (an issue with pre & post pollution blocks and heads on 308's, don't know about 202's) and head gasket installed in the correct orientation.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 14 March 2006 - 03:20 PM.
#11
_wildsix_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 03:43 PM
I had the same problem until I rebuilt the motor, I also got rid of the hv oil pump.
It had roller rockers and a tall baffled valve cvr. It would suck up 1/2ltr in 30km.
It was suffering from blow by, and too much oil being pumped up into the head, with it not draining back quick enough.
If its a new motor, did you install the rings correctly?
It had roller rockers and a tall baffled valve cvr. It would suck up 1/2ltr in 30km.
It was suffering from blow by, and too much oil being pumped up into the head, with it not draining back quick enough.
If its a new motor, did you install the rings correctly?
#12
_draglc_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:24 PM
The engine was built professionally. I drove it home this afternoon with the 2 breathers, and by the time i got home there was so much oil coming out, it was burning off on my extractors, quite amusing actually, just sitting at the lights, car smoking, people wondering wtf..
So i put the pcv valve back in it, and the other end back in the manifold, with just the one breather, and not one bit of oil comes out.
Turns out the rocker cover i have at home is the same size :S
Could it also be oil pressure? Mines not a HV pump, but as soon as the engine starts, the guage goes up to over 80, the max on the oil gauge. Its not an electrical fault, it will only do it when the engine is running.
I also did a compression test on it today at work, got between 170 and 180psi in each cylinder. That was dry test too, i ran it for a few mins before i did it.
I guess what im getting at, is that im sure the engine is healthy, i think its just a combination of high oil pressure and low rocker cover thats allowing oil to spill out the rocker cover. Its annoying though that its getting sucked back into the manifold to be burnt, so while i dont have blowby, its still burning oil...
Suggestions? Comments?
A1
So i put the pcv valve back in it, and the other end back in the manifold, with just the one breather, and not one bit of oil comes out.
Turns out the rocker cover i have at home is the same size :S
Could it also be oil pressure? Mines not a HV pump, but as soon as the engine starts, the guage goes up to over 80, the max on the oil gauge. Its not an electrical fault, it will only do it when the engine is running.
I also did a compression test on it today at work, got between 170 and 180psi in each cylinder. That was dry test too, i ran it for a few mins before i did it.
I guess what im getting at, is that im sure the engine is healthy, i think its just a combination of high oil pressure and low rocker cover thats allowing oil to spill out the rocker cover. Its annoying though that its getting sucked back into the manifold to be burnt, so while i dont have blowby, its still burning oil...
Suggestions? Comments?
A1
#13
_coupe202_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:37 PM
the rocker cover needs to baffled i had the same problem years ago to fix that all i did was baffled the rocker cover. and still the high volume oil pump.
#14
_draglc_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 07:46 PM
mate the rocker cover is baffled under the breather holes.
#15
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:01 PM
oil pressure doesnt affect blowby,there is nothing wrong with running a pcv valve if it was sucking oil through the pcv it would be blowing heaps of smoke ,id keep the pcv on there its better for less crankcase pressure you dont loose bugger all power from it, id get in there and give it a good thrashing go up a few hills on full noise i think you will find it will settle down,
dont be scared to give it a hard time its better for it than to drive like a grandma
dont be scared to give it a hard time its better for it than to drive like a grandma
#16
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:04 PM
that sounds like an aweful lot to much oil pressure...
#17
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:09 PM
Did you ask the engine builder since it is professionally built? That would be my first port of call.
#18
_draglc_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:25 PM
no i havent talked to him about it, i asked u guys, cause theres a lot more varied knowledge here..
the engine has not been babied, ive loaded it up mountains, and raced up and down mt nebo and mt glorious (brisbane), it has been run in properly!
A1
the engine has not been babied, ive loaded it up mountains, and raced up and down mt nebo and mt glorious (brisbane), it has been run in properly!
A1
Edited by draglc, 14 March 2006 - 08:26 PM.
#19
gtrboyy
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 10:05 PM
Is there a lot of pressure comeing out of the breather hole? On my old 202 it had the same problem,crappy baffles in r/cover caused me trouble & I hadn't bed the rings in properly that was fixed by a proper run-in procedure(thrashing).Mine had a h/v pump & it wasn't a problem.
#20
_SSHatch_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 10:45 PM
Funny thing! Was about to post a similar topic myself when I came across this one.
I have a 350 Chev in the Hatch. Has always been a heavy breathing engine. Always blowing oil out the breathers before I blew it up and still does it after rebuild.
Engine now has over 10,000klm on it and still pumps oil out when given a thrashing. It gets extremely bad when revved hard and on a long run in the country.
A mate following me the other day actually commented on the blue smoke billowing from under the car on the hwy.
I have been chasing an answer to this problem since I built the engine twelve months ago. Everybody simply suggests to put a catch can on it. This is fine but will only hide the problem and not cure it.
Any suggestions as to what may be causing it.
I am going to try a leakdown test in the next week or so but dont reckon this is the problem as the engine has always done it.
Cheers,
PJ
I have a 350 Chev in the Hatch. Has always been a heavy breathing engine. Always blowing oil out the breathers before I blew it up and still does it after rebuild.
Engine now has over 10,000klm on it and still pumps oil out when given a thrashing. It gets extremely bad when revved hard and on a long run in the country.
A mate following me the other day actually commented on the blue smoke billowing from under the car on the hwy.
I have been chasing an answer to this problem since I built the engine twelve months ago. Everybody simply suggests to put a catch can on it. This is fine but will only hide the problem and not cure it.
Any suggestions as to what may be causing it.
I am going to try a leakdown test in the next week or so but dont reckon this is the problem as the engine has always done it.
Cheers,
PJ
#21
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:04 PM
if its a std oil pump then it should be fine, if its pushing 80 psi cold then it has a heavier releif spring which is ok, it doesnt really need that much pressure but it wont hurt anything.
alot of cheap rocker covers dont have very good baffle designs.i would be suprised if the rocker cover is filling up that much with a std pump unless theres a restriction on the oil return holes somewhere , i would say its more than likely the baffle design which is allowing oil to come out with the crankcase pressure, some rings take a couple of thousand ks to bed in properly if they are hard such as chrome face sets.
most people stay away from chrome rings for this reason and they are hard on the bore no need for them really except very dusty conditions.
if it doesnt settle down then theres another problem such as piston clearances or ring gaps.
alot of cheap rocker covers dont have very good baffle designs.i would be suprised if the rocker cover is filling up that much with a std pump unless theres a restriction on the oil return holes somewhere , i would say its more than likely the baffle design which is allowing oil to come out with the crankcase pressure, some rings take a couple of thousand ks to bed in properly if they are hard such as chrome face sets.
most people stay away from chrome rings for this reason and they are hard on the bore no need for them really except very dusty conditions.
if it doesnt settle down then theres another problem such as piston clearances or ring gaps.
#22
mrlctorana
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:05 PM
Yeah, i remember you pulling the breather out on a few of the runs and wiping oil off the rocker cover.
Like the avatar PJ, hehe
Les
Like the avatar PJ, hehe
Les
#23
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:16 AM
Hey guys, i HAD this problem... I used a chrome rocker cover in the past, and ill tell you now that if you have roller rockers - thats your problem! You will need a taller rocker cover (See KC Alloy). I am running a High Volume oil pump on mine and its fine now! Run your PCV valve still, any breathers you have too, but the only way i fixed my dillemah was to get a tall rocker cover! Solution #496!
Look in the trading post as they retail for $175 new...
From this:
To this:
Keith
Look in the trading post as they retail for $175 new...
From this:
To this:
Keith
#24
_draglc_
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 07:13 AM
I do know i need one of those, but damn $175 is a lot for a rocker cover!
A1
A1
#25
mrlctorana
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:01 PM
I could have bought one of them for $50 about 6 months back, but couldn't afford it and although i knew I needed it had to pass it up, dum dum.
Pretty Smick looking donk you got there Keithy, good job.
Les
Pretty Smick looking donk you got there Keithy, good job.
Les
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