Love the sound of a hot 308 V8 Engine, the Win in 1993 by Larry Perkins in a 308 and everyone else went chevy, was a nice send off by the old 308 at the mountain
Edited by xu2308, 16 March 2012 - 10:55 PM.
The Great L34 A9X debate
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#351
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:48 PM
The 308 won alot of bathurst LXSS350
Love the sound of a hot 308 V8 Engine, the Win in 1993 by Larry Perkins in a 308 and everyone else went chevy, was a nice send off by the old 308 at the mountain
Love the sound of a hot 308 V8 Engine, the Win in 1993 by Larry Perkins in a 308 and everyone else went chevy, was a nice send off by the old 308 at the mountain
#352
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:48 PM
Scan the tests and read all you like but obviously you have never driven one.Just check speedo and genuine 10,000 rpm tacho these aYup fancy and sounds impressive but it means zip .... because it didn't go faster than the std motor in the SLR5000.
It was a durability engine that with extra bits on top of the std L34 that everyone could buy could be made to go harder than a std SLR5000.
Otherwise sorry it just didn't go harder in std form.
I will scan the track tests from Wheels. Please don't then say you had a CAMS licence and had the secret squirrel bathurst racing super pack with cam,holley etc because that's not the std factory L34.
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#353
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:10 AM
hey LXSS350 sounds like you mythed out on the best of your L34, I ran my brand new (out of united motors show room) L34 up to 200kmh on the way home, a drive of about 520 ks, incidentally they did not have to rev to 7000rpm to go 150mph, 5500rpm got you 143mph with 2.78 diff. why your car would not perform similarly is beyond me, perhaps your throttle wasnt opening fully or your foot wasnt heavy enough. there was another 261 L34 s produced and we will probably get another 200 different opinions on what they would and would not do, no two items of of anything are ever exactly the same. weve had IDENTICAL tractors and trucks on the farm and it seems one usually performs better doing the same work
#354
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:29 AM
I wasn't lucky enough to ever own a genuine L34..but i did own a genuine but damaged and complete L34 engine. The engine had come from a wreaked L34 and was complete carb to sump but the block was cracked and it was not a runner..this was back in 95. We decided that we would strip everything salvageable out of the L34 engine (rods/crank/heads/manifold/carb/fuel pump/ignition) and with these parts rebuild the HT L31 engine in my SL/R5000. The only standard items we didn't run on the rebuilt engine were the exhaust as i had a complete custom genie system that i had been running on the L31 motor originally and the air cleaner assembly which was one of the first things i binned..that engine would turn to a max of 6800rpm easy and had plenty of go which matches closely to what i know and have read about a few other members here that had genuine L34s.
We later switched out the stock L34 cam for a crane solid with matching springs, crane roller rockers and also a holley 780vac sec fitted with a genuine HO velocity stack and of course the car ran better again..still not a fire breathing monster by today's standards but quite rapid and fairly capable of pulling some solid revs..for the record the only thing i ever broke on that engine were some piston rings and a few clutches..was a great engine though i had some fun times with that motor.
We later switched out the stock L34 cam for a crane solid with matching springs, crane roller rockers and also a holley 780vac sec fitted with a genuine HO velocity stack and of course the car ran better again..still not a fire breathing monster by today's standards but quite rapid and fairly capable of pulling some solid revs..for the record the only thing i ever broke on that engine were some piston rings and a few clutches..was a great engine though i had some fun times with that motor.
#355
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:36 AM
Now your onto it.
Having big heads effected its low end torque unless you added a compatible and matching carburettor,cam and exhaust system. That's why the fancy bits the factory had inside the L34 didn't make extra HP and torque.
If you wanted your L34 to go harder you needed bits that the factory didn't supply.
That's the whole reason why the std equivalent SLR5000 could beat it. Had nothing to do with adjusting the timing from how they left the factory.
If it was that simple a solution then Wheels Mag and the Dons personal car would have whipped the SLR5000's butt in 0-100 and 1/4 mile times. Its not like Don Holland was just a motoring journalist fool when they back to back tested the L34 vs SLR5000 at Oran Park. Important to note that not only did Mr Holland drive but Don had a performance motor engineering shop, a Holden dealership and he raced the L34 that year at Bathurst.
Perhap they should have asked how to make it go faster (in standard form) by asking on an internet forum. LOL
Imagine its a little like having an old two stroke mx bike but in std factory form the engine components don't allow it to get into its powerband.
In your words which seem acceptable it was choked from the factory.
Which explains why it never went harder. I should know because I went to the dealers when they first released them and then brought a low km one a few years after.
Having big heads effected its low end torque unless you added a compatible and matching carburettor,cam and exhaust system. That's why the fancy bits the factory had inside the L34 didn't make extra HP and torque.
If you wanted your L34 to go harder you needed bits that the factory didn't supply.
That's the whole reason why the std equivalent SLR5000 could beat it. Had nothing to do with adjusting the timing from how they left the factory.
If it was that simple a solution then Wheels Mag and the Dons personal car would have whipped the SLR5000's butt in 0-100 and 1/4 mile times. Its not like Don Holland was just a motoring journalist fool when they back to back tested the L34 vs SLR5000 at Oran Park. Important to note that not only did Mr Holland drive but Don had a performance motor engineering shop, a Holden dealership and he raced the L34 that year at Bathurst.
Perhap they should have asked how to make it go faster (in standard form) by asking on an internet forum. LOL
Imagine its a little like having an old two stroke mx bike but in std factory form the engine components don't allow it to get into its powerband.
In your words which seem acceptable it was choked from the factory.
Which explains why it never went harder. I should know because I went to the dealers when they first released them and then brought a low km one a few years after.
Edited by LXSS350, 17 March 2012 - 01:44 AM.
#356
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:01 AM
L34 Wheels Dec 1974
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#357
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:07 AM
Dug out of the old mag box
L34 Wheels December 1974
L34 Wheels December 1974
L34 Wheels December 1974
L34 Wheels December 1974
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#358
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:10 AM
Sorry I stuffed up the page order.
L34 Wheels December 1974
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#359
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:24 AM
The L34 that i went for a ride in at Tullah back in the mid 1980's had the track pack and it was a very fast road car, or the chef that owned it might of had more done to it, never knew they had a 10,000 rpm Tacho in them or a 300 k speedo, not that i looked at the speedo was to busy hanging on lol
#360
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:57 AM
it amazes me that some people on here still go on about the standard aircleaner setup.
think about it, did Holden design the standard Hq 308 aircleaner to the utmost potential flow when matched to there standard 308 engines,if you believe yes then i ask you to have a look at other engine companys with the same size entry hole on there aircleaners, why did chev 7yrs before get 330hp from a 396 big block using the same style nozzle, or were they really getting 220hp that the stock 308 really put out (avr) In conlusion yes some aftermarket cleaners work better but i m sorry but i cant believe flipping an 308 aircleaner lid will gain 1/2 a second on the quarter.
in a aspirated motor it works like this,the aircleaner hole needs to only be as big as your inlet valve to be effiecent at manufactures recconmended rpms,why? becuase only one valve opens at a time.
if you dont believe this then do your own research, its all out there.
think about it, did Holden design the standard Hq 308 aircleaner to the utmost potential flow when matched to there standard 308 engines,if you believe yes then i ask you to have a look at other engine companys with the same size entry hole on there aircleaners, why did chev 7yrs before get 330hp from a 396 big block using the same style nozzle, or were they really getting 220hp that the stock 308 really put out (avr) In conlusion yes some aftermarket cleaners work better but i m sorry but i cant believe flipping an 308 aircleaner lid will gain 1/2 a second on the quarter.
in a aspirated motor it works like this,the aircleaner hole needs to only be as big as your inlet valve to be effiecent at manufactures recconmended rpms,why? becuase only one valve opens at a time.
if you dont believe this then do your own research, its all out there.
#361
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:06 PM
Harry Firth drilled round holes in the Holden aircleaner container on the first V8 Torana ever built, why holden dident make that standard on the holden aicleaner
i dont know
i dont know
#362
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:57 PM
LXSS350..........you stick to your guns here mate, we know what the L34 owners are like.
10,000rpm tach....300Kph speedo...........pppfffttt..........its' like those doof doof boys with big wings and super dooper wide drift rims with the side wall pulled over on some stupid angle........a complete wank!
Big W, you will go blind soon!
There is a reason they made so few L34s...........there was something better coming!
10,000rpm tach....300Kph speedo...........pppfffttt..........its' like those doof doof boys with big wings and super dooper wide drift rims with the side wall pulled over on some stupid angle........a complete wank!
Big W, you will go blind soon!
There is a reason they made so few L34s...........there was something better coming!
#363
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:48 PM
YEA AND BLOODY PROUD OF IT!!!!!LXSS350..........you stick to your guns here mate, we know what the L34 owners are like.
10,000rpm tach....300Kph speedo...........pppfffttt..........its' like those doof doof boys with big wings and super dooper wide drift rims with the side wall pulled over on some stupid angle........a complete wank!
Big W, you will go blind soon!
There is a reason they made so few L34s...........there was something better coming!
#364
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:07 PM
We are talking 1974. Even for me that's a bloody long time ago and a lot of water under the bridge. Even when these where new everyone was looking for more, and doing modifications to improve things (right at the start). That was very common as nobody ever though these cars would be anything more than scrap metal in 10-15yrs let alone 38.
Even today not many petrol heads (young people who buy such cars) can leave things standard as they are always seeking a better faster mousetrap. Within the passage of time the fish just keep getting bigger and the real facts tended to get lost in translation and teenage wet dreams. Hell as a teenager I thought many things where faster, bigger and could jump tall buildings than actually where/could....... LOL.
Funny that we all fall into trying to hard to justifying where we spend our money .... but sometimes we can loose sight of the bunny. The L34 was a great Homolgation special and those parts certainly helped the poorly designed 308 big time in gaining racing reliability. That was a very important part of the Torana history so that we could continue kicking those Frauds butts!!!!!
Reality also was that the Torana's like any Holden or Fraud where poorly built and had a lot of faults built into the design, but they are the epitome of simplicity and one of the great representations of the era. I just love them all and loved them even more every time that Moffat wept and then stormed off after yet another defeat. ..... LOL
What a shame that the Mountain has lost all that magic with the silhouette badge schmoozel that we have racing there today. Kids today don't know what real racing is.
Even today not many petrol heads (young people who buy such cars) can leave things standard as they are always seeking a better faster mousetrap. Within the passage of time the fish just keep getting bigger and the real facts tended to get lost in translation and teenage wet dreams. Hell as a teenager I thought many things where faster, bigger and could jump tall buildings than actually where/could....... LOL.
Funny that we all fall into trying to hard to justifying where we spend our money .... but sometimes we can loose sight of the bunny. The L34 was a great Homolgation special and those parts certainly helped the poorly designed 308 big time in gaining racing reliability. That was a very important part of the Torana history so that we could continue kicking those Frauds butts!!!!!
Reality also was that the Torana's like any Holden or Fraud where poorly built and had a lot of faults built into the design, but they are the epitome of simplicity and one of the great representations of the era. I just love them all and loved them even more every time that Moffat wept and then stormed off after yet another defeat. ..... LOL
What a shame that the Mountain has lost all that magic with the silhouette badge schmoozel that we have racing there today. Kids today don't know what real racing is.
Edited by LXSS350, 17 March 2012 - 06:10 PM.
#365
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:36 PM
Tipping the air cleaner upside down to let more air into a starved carby is hardly a major modification requiring a uni edumcation just a wingnut twirling a wingnut and if red said it was worth half a sec on a a9x it would be two secs on a l34.The L34 did not even have the preheat function half way up snorkle to let air in only a hole about the size of a 20cent piece.A 307 chev standard air cleaner element in place would raise lid to solve restriction and unlike A9X sniffer dog regulations was quite legalNow your onto it.
Having big heads effected its low end torque unless you added a compatible and matching carburettor,cam and exhaust system. That's why the fancy bits the factory had inside the L34 didn't make extra HP and torque.
If you wanted your L34 to go harder you needed bits that the factory didn't supply.
That's the whole reason why the std equivalent SLR5000 could beat it. Had nothing to do with adjusting the timing from how they left the factory.
If it was that simple a solution then Wheels Mag and the Dons personal car would have whipped the SLR5000's butt in 0-100 and 1/4 mile times. Its not like Don Holland was just a motoring journalist fool when they back to back tested the L34 vs SLR5000 at Oran Park. Important to note that not only did Mr Holland drive but Don had a performance motor engineering shop, a Holden dealership and he raced the L34 that year at Bathurst.
Perhap they should have asked how to make it go faster (in standard form) by asking on an internet forum. LOL
Imagine its a little like having an old two stroke mx bike but in std factory form the engine components don't allow it to get into its powerband.
In your words which seem acceptable it was choked from the factory.
Which explains why it never went harder. I should know because I went to the dealers when they first released them and then brought a low km one a few years after.
#366
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:39 PM
Gemini,s for those that could not handle the power or a stato engined A9XLXSS350..........you stick to your guns here mate, we know what the L34 owners are like.
10,000rpm tach....300Kph speedo...........pppfffttt..........its' like those doof doof boys with big wings and super dooper wide drift rims with the side wall pulled over on some stupid angle........a complete wank!
Big W, you will go blind soon!
There is a reason they made so few L34s...........there was something better coming!
#367
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:42 PM
Larry kicked chev ass with the 308 and only relented because of coporate gm pressureThe 308 won alot of bathurst LXSS350
Love the sound of a hot 308 V8 Engine, the Win in 1993 by Larry Perkins in a 308 and everyone else went chevy, was a nice send off by the old 308 at the mountain
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:42 PM
Being a mad old car nut and having collected car magazines since the 70's I dug out an old Wheels Mag from 1978.
They where trying to find the Fastest Australian Car on sale in 78.
I remember the article but it reminded me about how some of these myths get started.
As we are Torana fans I will keep the relativity just to the 5 litre Torana. (n.b. this review is not the L34)
The Torana was also consistent, its three runs sending up 116mph each time. That's 186kph. We where quite disappointed by this figure, particularly since the Torana came standard with a tall 2:78:1 diff and the engine was only pulling 4700rpm when it went through our radar trap.
Both the speedo and tach showed themselves to be benders of the facts, since the tach showed 5250rpm (actually 4700rpm) and the speedo had been way past the 200kph mark and off the clock. It was at least 20kph fast at top speed.
We said it was discrepancies like these which caused such folklore to grow up around some cars performance levels.
There where any number of 130 mph V8 Torana owners about, and these findings won't do much to dispel the claims.
Those guys had seen it on the speedo!
They where trying to find the Fastest Australian Car on sale in 78.
I remember the article but it reminded me about how some of these myths get started.
As we are Torana fans I will keep the relativity just to the 5 litre Torana. (n.b. this review is not the L34)
The Torana was also consistent, its three runs sending up 116mph each time. That's 186kph. We where quite disappointed by this figure, particularly since the Torana came standard with a tall 2:78:1 diff and the engine was only pulling 4700rpm when it went through our radar trap.
Both the speedo and tach showed themselves to be benders of the facts, since the tach showed 5250rpm (actually 4700rpm) and the speedo had been way past the 200kph mark and off the clock. It was at least 20kph fast at top speed.
We said it was discrepancies like these which caused such folklore to grow up around some cars performance levels.
There where any number of 130 mph V8 Torana owners about, and these findings won't do much to dispel the claims.
Those guys had seen it on the speedo!
#370
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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:08 PM
got all magazines dyno tacho when my car tested was not a super cheap specialBeing a mad old car nut and having collected car magazines since the 70's I dug out an old Wheels Mag from 1978.
They where trying to find the Fastest Australian Car on sale in 78.
I remember the article but it reminded me about how some of these myths get started.
As we are Torana fans I will keep the relativity just to the 5 litre Torana. (n.b. this review is not the L34)
The Torana was also consistent, its three runs sending up 116mph each time. That's 186kph. We where quite disappointed by this figure, particularly since the Torana came standard with a tall 2:78:1 diff and the engine was only pulling 4700rpm when it went through our radar trap.
Both the speedo and tach showed themselves to be benders of the facts, since the tach showed 5250rpm (actually 4700rpm) and the speedo had been way past the 200kph mark and off the clock. It was at least 20kph fast at top speed.
We said it was discrepancies like these which caused such folklore to grow up around some cars performance levels.
There where any number of 130 mph V8 Torana owners about, and these findings won't do much to dispel the claims.
Those guys had seen it on the speedo!
bargain houses in america and bargain chevs
#371
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:22 PM
And don't you forget it !!!I think it started with the mighty big block Brabham HB.
Go the HB - I rest my case.....
APL
#372
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:20 PM
G,day guys. Love the forum as it has provided many hours of entertaining reading. It must be time to make a contribution.
My L34 was purchased from the dealer with the 3.08 diff ratio and H.O. option installed, thus making it a very quick (and dangerous) car for that time. By the time I purchased it, the motor was "unopened" (and using the standard collectors for the extractors) after 130,000 kays but still running like clockwork. It would out accelerate the then current VN SS by a large margin. Was this not a factory road car? When you buy a standard VE SS and option it up through Holden By Design it is still a factory car.
A friend close by has owned his A9X sedan from new, and yes it is a much nicer car to drive, but I don't think the L34s were ever meant to be nice. Compared to modern cars mine is a bit of a pig to drive around town, but it's a bloody quick pig!!
For those who believe monetary value plays any part here (I don't), a quick browse through the December 2011 Unique Cars value guide puts the L34 at $85,700 and the A9X sedan at $84,965. Call it even. (Interesting to note that the LH SL/R 5000 is at $51,985 and the LX SL/R 5000 at $40,000.) The A9X hatchback? $202,500!!!!!!
They both won two ATCC titles, and they both won two Bathursts.
The answer to this great debate for me is the L34. But this is only because I own one. If I bought an A9X all those years ago my answer would no doubt be different. I actually had a choice between my car and a red A9X hatch at the time with both advertised at $16,000, but the hatch was very rough, and the L34 was still like new. (Still is
)
Toranas....... I love 'em all !!!
My L34 was purchased from the dealer with the 3.08 diff ratio and H.O. option installed, thus making it a very quick (and dangerous) car for that time. By the time I purchased it, the motor was "unopened" (and using the standard collectors for the extractors) after 130,000 kays but still running like clockwork. It would out accelerate the then current VN SS by a large margin. Was this not a factory road car? When you buy a standard VE SS and option it up through Holden By Design it is still a factory car.
A friend close by has owned his A9X sedan from new, and yes it is a much nicer car to drive, but I don't think the L34s were ever meant to be nice. Compared to modern cars mine is a bit of a pig to drive around town, but it's a bloody quick pig!!
For those who believe monetary value plays any part here (I don't), a quick browse through the December 2011 Unique Cars value guide puts the L34 at $85,700 and the A9X sedan at $84,965. Call it even. (Interesting to note that the LH SL/R 5000 is at $51,985 and the LX SL/R 5000 at $40,000.) The A9X hatchback? $202,500!!!!!!
They both won two ATCC titles, and they both won two Bathursts.
The answer to this great debate for me is the L34. But this is only because I own one. If I bought an A9X all those years ago my answer would no doubt be different. I actually had a choice between my car and a red A9X hatch at the time with both advertised at $16,000, but the hatch was very rough, and the L34 was still like new. (Still is
)Toranas....... I love 'em all !!!
#373
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:12 PM
They all left the factory as per the Wheels review. What you did to them after that was totally up to you i.e. go to parts and pick up the hot pack (cam,holley etc) and get them fitted. But just like the T10 box fitted to some A9X's they never left the factory with such modifications. Holden offered these non standard bits via their parts division.
Dealers did all sorts of things when they sold a new car, even seen turbo systems on an SLR5000, 2.5" exhausts, lx hatch console in lx slr, aircond systems and electric sunroofs. Dealers do anything as long as they can see the $$.
Dealers did all sorts of things when they sold a new car, even seen turbo systems on an SLR5000, 2.5" exhausts, lx hatch console in lx slr, aircond systems and electric sunroofs. Dealers do anything as long as they can see the $$.
#374
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:42 PM
Hi Shiny 005, welcome mate, i too own a barbados L34 with a dealer fit 'track pack" option, and can certainly back you up on your statement, agressive to drive, but a very responsive, tight, fast car to drive, its hard to explain to the novice, unless they actually have been in one. But to some they only want to believe what they read in magazines, but then again we are only disscussing factory L34 and A9X. I don,t care what anybody thinks or says, the H.O OPTION L34 is one hell of a great package!.G,day guys. Love the forum as it has provided many hours of entertaining reading. It must be time to make a contribution.
My L34 was purchased from the dealer with the 3.08 diff ratio and H.O. option installed, thus making it a very quick (and dangerous) car for that time. By the time I purchased it, the motor was "unopened" (and using the standard collectors for the extractors) after 130,000 kays but still running like clockwork. It would out accelerate the then current VN SS by a large margin. Was this not a factory road car? When you buy a standard VE SS and option it up through Holden By Design it is still a factory car.
A friend close by has owned his A9X sedan from new, and yes it is a much nicer car to drive, but I don't think the L34s were ever meant to be nice. Compared to modern cars mine is a bit of a pig to drive around town, but it's a bloody quick pig!!
For those who believe monetary value plays any part here (I don't), a quick browse through the December 2011 Unique Cars value guide puts the L34 at $85,700 and the A9X sedan at $84,965. Call it even. (Interesting to note that the LH SL/R 5000 is at $51,985 and the LX SL/R 5000 at $40,000.) The A9X hatchback? $202,500!!!!!!
They both won two ATCC titles, and they both won two Bathursts.
The answer to this great debate for me is the L34. But this is only because I own one. If I bought an A9X all those years ago my answer would no doubt be different. I actually had a choice between my car and a red A9X hatch at the time with both advertised at $16,000, but the hatch was very rough, and the L34 was still like new. (Still is
Toranas....... I love 'em all !!!
#375
unclefestal34s
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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:41 PM
last october on our nsw gmh-forum drag day i raced my red track pack L34 with its 780 holley,crane rockers,wade solid camshaft,factory intake manifold,hm headers with race extensions etc ..engine made 343hp on the dyno..i upped the diff to 3.36 215/60 14in radials..withs its fragile driveline i walked off the line and totally baby it in first gear the car went 13.4 @ 106.96 mph i spun the engine up 6200 rpm and pulled 4th gear pretty much on the line..
having owned over a dozen genuine L34s even when worn out these cars were genuine missiles..
having owned over a dozen genuine L34s even when worn out these cars were genuine missiles..
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