so uncle is your l34 brand new with 000001 kms or has it been tuned up for the race with a stock worn a9x ?
my stock L34 in question has 167000kS ....
The Great L34 A9X debate
Started by
REDA9X
, Apr 02 2009 09:18 AM
582 replies to this topic
#51
unclefestal34s
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:19 PM
my stock L34 in question has 167000kS ....
#52
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:21 PM
so uncle is your l34 brand new with 000001 kms or has it been tuned up for the race with a stock worn a9x ?
Cant be too worn if it does 15 sec quarters
#53
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:24 PM
I have lost count of the amount of adjectives in the thread. Anyone help!
We are trying to get RED TAXI to put his car where his mouth is.
#54
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:24 PM
Maybe Bob Morris should have a crack at it on the track with both cars? He won Bathurst in 76 with the L34 and won the ATCC in 79 with the A9X. He would surely have an idea about the road cars and how they would perform.
#55
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:34 PM
I will lend you some wheels and tyres maybe even slicks so you can try and keep up,anything for charity.
what keep up with you? hmmm that would be comparing apples with what exactly? You already told us how modified your car is
Putting my money where my mouth is? As I said, it will prove nothing you still have to be able to drive and i'm betting niether car is exactly as it left the showroom floor or in the same condition, maybe I will give Bob a call and get him to come drive, he's been in my car a few times in the past
#56
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:35 PM
We are trying to get RED TAXI to put his car where his mouth is.
I thought it was about HB Brabham's....
APL
#57
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:35 PM
Maybe Bob Morris should have a crack at it on the track with both cars? He won Bathurst in 76 with the L34 and won the ATCC in 79 with the A9X. He would surely have an idea about the road cars and how they would perform.
He is only interested in 4 legged horsepower these days and by the way RED TAXI called it the great debate but gets upset if we debate it.
#58
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:38 PM
what keep up with you? hmmm that would be comparing apples with what exactly? You already told us how modified your car is
Putting my money where my mouth is? As I said, it will prove nothing you still have to be able to drive and i'm betting niether car is exactly as it left the showroom floor or in the same condition, maybe I will give Bob a call and get him to come drive, he's been in my car a few times in the past
Its festas standard L34 against your standard A9X
#59
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:42 PM
Where exactly did I get upset wayne? certainly not about the debate. Just frustrated by the bullshit that some people sprout. Some people can actually string a decent post tegether thats interesting to read and has facts, some just come for a stir or spin rubbish.
#60
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:46 PM
what keep up with you? hmmm that would be comparing apples with what exactly? You already told us how modified your car is
Putting my money where my mouth is? As I said, it will prove nothing you still have to be able to drive and i'm betting niether car is exactly as it left the showroom floor or in the same condition, maybe I will give Bob a call and get him to come drive, he's been in my car a few times in the past
Your the one RED who said how superior your standard a9x was in comparison to standard l34 .a9x ,better brakes, rubbish truck suspenion you should shit it in what are you worried about.
#61
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:49 PM
Well I see this is all going well...... 
#62
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:50 PM
there is 14 people lookin at this thread it cannot be to boring 
#63
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:52 PM
Wayne, maybe mate you should read back through your own threads and take note, then read back through what exactly I said, then take your foot out of your mouth! I thought YOU had more brains than that! This has become a personal witch hunt rather than a debate on the facts now. Please forgive me if I don't own god knows how many cars and can't afford to flog the living crap out of my car just to prove a petty point.
#64
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:53 PM
For me its the L34
i got a 1974 sportscar world magazine here in front of me with L34 Meets SL/R
it says the Crank Rods & Pistons are all repco made
Crank is Steel nad has retainer plates also the Conrods are thicker in cross section and have bigger bearing cap bolts
the pistons are solid skirt slipper type and have a flat top bringing comp up to 9.8
The Track pack was the Animal stock L34 cost $6200 and track pack was extra $1500
thing it says it was around 260Kw
i got a 1974 sportscar world magazine here in front of me with L34 Meets SL/R
it says the Crank Rods & Pistons are all repco made
Crank is Steel nad has retainer plates also the Conrods are thicker in cross section and have bigger bearing cap bolts
the pistons are solid skirt slipper type and have a flat top bringing comp up to 9.8
The Track pack was the Animal stock L34 cost $6200 and track pack was extra $1500
thing it says it was around 260Kw
#65
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:54 PM
I'm very lonely ...there is 14 people lookin at this thread it cannot be to boring
#66
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:55 PM
Wayne, maybe mate you should read back through your own threads and take note, then read back through what exactly I said, then take your foot out of your mouth! I thought YOU had more brains than that! This has become a personal witch hunt rather than a debate on the facts now. Please forgive me if I don't own god knows how many cars and can't afford to flog the living crap out of my car just to prove a petty point.
Get a life
#67
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:57 PM
Wow!..This is interesting...LH/X owners in a debate!!...I am going back to read from the beginning!! This shit is usually the domain of the LC/J owners who are always in a pissing competion...I will be back!!
R
R
#68
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:58 PM
Outa take it to Pms dont ruin a good thread
#69
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:59 PM
Micheal are very easy way would be a simple shootout at the track with my stock L34 and your stock A9X,sounds good a redcar vs redcar..basically a 2009 version..now this might seem like a bit of a challenge but to make it interesting we take bets and raise some money for a charity as my niece does little work with the starlight foundation at the children's hospital at westmead which incidentally saved her life....basically a bit of fun and we could show of the cars to our forum members and what these brilliant cars are capable of doing in the year 2009...we could settle some of these great debates in reality as opposed to some of the theories and so on...would be very easy to arrange what do you think...the old saying the flag drops the bullshit..and please don't take it personal as i'm a genuine shit stirrer to but my offer is real...hey keep smiling..
Hmmm.Still at the front page....if its over 10 laps Festal...you will lunch a motor...don't even thing about it..rods out the side are UGLY!
R
#70
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:01 PM
^^^ that may address one aspect, which is quicker around a circuit in stock configuration.
My guess would be that in a straight line the L34 would pull away (depending on the installed diff ratio) but come the corners (and some repeated heavy braking) then the A9x would be climbing over the back of the L34.
^^^ Wise man this one...I agree on this...
R
#71
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:06 PM
This is turning into dare i say it a massdebate 
#72
unclefestal34s
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:07 PM
Hmmm.Still at the front page....if its over 10 laps Festal...you will lunch a motor...don't even thing about it..rods out the side are UGLY!
R
yes rory but it would only be destiny for a pure thoroughbred to die on the race track....i mean it was built was for the race,with it its baffled sump,windage tray etc... your right rory..
#73
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:07 PM
This argument seems to come up on a regulate basis, so lets look at the facts
Many people believe the L34 was a better car than the A9X and the common argument is that the L34 was faster. In some cases, some people have even claimed the stock L34 was putting out 380hp, strange when race teams were lucky to squeeze 350hp out of them in full race mode.
The fact is Holden had a policy of choking the cars at the time after the supercar scare. When the 34 was released most people were very disappointed with their performance off the showroom floor. Holden claimed the car was built for endurance, not performance, while that was correct, the engine basics were all there, all you had to do was let it breath and the thing went like a rocket. The standard exhaust for example was the H&M headers broken in 2 and the second part went into one single 2� pipe. After reaching the mufflers, the pipes went back down to the standard 1 5/8 tailpipes. On the intake end, the engine had to suck air through a 1 � hole in the aircleaner. The fact is an engine thrives on getting air and fuel and being able to extract that exhaust, the intake and exhaust was no better than a stock SLR5000.
When tested at the time , most motoring journalists were shocked by the cars performance and in one magazine an SLR5000 and L34 were compared to each other on the drag strip and the SLR5000 was actually found to be faster. Speaking to people who bought SLR5000�s and L34�s from new they found the same issue when the cars were taken to the local Castlereagh drag strip. Most people agreed at the time the SLR5000 was faster due to the rolling diameter of the tyres, 13� rims to 14� rims. Most owners of L34�s then took the cars home, had the exhaust changed, timing done and a decent aircleaner fitted. When they returned to the track the cars went much better, this is why most people remember L34�s as rocket ships because they have now been modified, and most have been over the years. The same external mods to an SLR5000 would not achieve the same result as the internal components , mainly the larger head valves were not there. All the other mods in an L34 engine from the factory were as they stated, for durability.
The L34 also had the option for the High Output pack to be fitted, again this was mainly durability, though it did have a wilder cam and better breathing aircleaner as well. The stock L34 cam was the same as a standard 253. The fact is the HO kit was never a factory fitted item, it was dealer fitted and many dealers were fitting them to other vehicles. In 1978, Holden released a bulletin to all its dealers stating the fitment of HO kits was to cease as it was against ADR�s of the day.
The A9X was released to cure all the problems the L34,( just like the L34 was to cure the SLR5000 in racing situations) had, mainly with driveline. There was no need to put all the L34 components into the engine, they had already been homologated. Holden only needed to add the bits that needed fixing. An L34 was basically an SLR5000 with HQ brakes, some good engine bits and flares to accommodate the 14� wheels. With the A9X, they modified the floor to take the larger Salisbury diff with disc brakes from the upcoming HZ range. A dealer fitted option was also the T10 gearbox. Other mods were changes to the suspension which made the car handle better and some small changes for the engine. The most noticeable was the bonnet scoop which allowed for a hole to accommodate the variety of different carburettors available. The engine driven fan was removed and replaced with an electric fan as the L34 was prone to throw fanbelts and the fan robbed the engine of power. The road going A9X got a different camshaft to the SLR5000 and an upgraded crankshaft from the L34 as the L34 crank was prone to failure. The A9X did suffer from ADR27A which made the engines run less smoothly than a pre ADR27A engine, however the lack of fan and cam did make up for this slightly. The main purpose of the ADR27A mods was to make the engine more efficient and better on fuel, but once the engines were up to temp they were not that much worse off performance wise.
When it came to race A9X�s, yes a special batch of shells were made up, however at least 2 I know of used road going hatches.
The A9X race cars did not use L34 engines as most people seem to think. Remember the L34 ran a fan for starters. Most A9X race cars had new blocks from the factory and built them to the specs allowed within the homologation process, this means yes they used plenty of L34 componentry, but essentially were not an L34 engine as such.
Going back to the road cars, if you bought a brand new bog stock L34 and a brand new bog stock A9X and ran them against each other around a track, it would be a race between whether the basically stock A9X engine without the benefit of the L34�s baffled sump would blow up before the L34 ran out of brakes or blew up the diff, not a race to see which was faster. If the A9X did not make improvements over the L34 and the L34 handled better as some would have you believe, why did Holden bother to upgrade to the A9X in the first place?
It�s a fact less L34�s were made than A9X sedans, 263 vs. 305, and that the L34 was built to race. Holden didn�t produce special shells for the L34 to race, you went to the dealer, you bought an L34, modified it to race and off you went. This makes genuine untouched examples of the L34 very rare indeed today.
The facts are simple, and this is in no way a put down of the L34 as some would have you believe, it�s unemotional facts rather than wives tales and blurred memories, or simple putting down of one car because someone owns the other. You also have to remember to compare apples with apples, you can�t compare a modified (in ANY WAY) A9X against an L34 or visa versa. At the end of the day, both of these cars served their purpose in the homologation process and both have their good and bad points, people should learn to appreciate them for what they are.
the idea of the race sounds good, however, neither car is exactly the way it left the factory.
And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen...is the end of the history lesson..
Michael..perfect description....time line and outcome of what actually happened....love your work...research.... and no bullshit approach to setting the record straight...
Not bothering to look at any more here..chasing some stuff for the 2nd race car on Ebay...Then checking out all those pics Ruts sent me...sheet! 500 of the farkers of E Creek and P.I.!!
R
Edited by rorym, 02 April 2009 - 10:09 PM.
#74
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:08 PM
yes rory but it would only be destiny for a pure thoroughbred to die on the race track....i mean it was built was for the race,with it its baffled sump,windage tray etc... your right rory..
You missed the 3 litre sump that was the problem...
R
#75
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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:09 PM
And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen...is the end of the history lesson..
Michael..perfect description....time line and outcome of what actually happened....love your work...research.... and no bullshit approach to setting the record straight...
Not bothering to look at any more here..chasing some stuff for the 2nd race car on Ebay.
R
good for you rory..
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