582 replies to this topic

[HSVGTS]

Well Red if that pretty much sums up what you�ve been saying all along maybe you should stop writing pages of facts and figures that smoke screen the main point of what you actually mean.

Ok, maybe I�m just thick but that�s not what I�ve understood your posts to mean or how I read them.

To tell you the truth I don�t read many of yours because of that reason. Maybe if you stick to the main points slow people like me will be able to understand them and probably agree with them.

Kind regards������

Ps. By the way it may not be a huge gap but it�s not a small one either, it�s a clear win.

[REDA9X]

Yep, maybe next time I'll just write a load of crap and tell everyone to get a life, that will come across much better

[Swarbs]

Realy not or have no intentions of stirring the pot here
And still not sure weather we are talking the race versions or road versions of each model car
But in my eyes the figures speak for themselves

In the 4 years that the Torana's won Bathurst 2 for L34 and 2 for A9X
The qualifying times set were as such

'75 L34 driven by Brock / Morris --- 2min.28.6
'76 L34 driven by Morris / Fitzpatrick --- 2min 26.4
'78 A9X driven by Brock / Richards --- 2min 20.6
'79 A9X driven by Brock / Richards --- 2min 20.5

These are only qualifying times for the winning cars not nessesarily fastest qualifying for that year
The mountain has it all braking, top speed, cornering etc
Basicly the same drivers
Please feel free to flame me and i will go away
Both great cars and i would be proud to own either ( stick with and are happy with my LX 5000)
Great debate but leave the boots out of it
D

[REDA9X]

Hatches are 8kg heavier, however a sedan has more flex in the rear end due to the doors. Holden wanted to promote the hatches, thats the main reason they raced, plus, they looked better

[HSVGTS]

Pallbag, that statement was made when Harry was talking about the race versions�� he went on to say something about a breakdown in Brocks hatch and him having to drive the 4 door instead. Two occasions were mentioned I think the other was when Brock first drove an A9X for the HDT.

Maybe Red could answer when both occasions occurred for you it�s more his expertise, I didn�t ask Harry, I wasn�t particularly interested in hearing that as I have the hatch version�����.regards

[LXM21]

Maybe if you stick to the main points slow people like me will be able to understand them and probably agree with them.

Kind regards������



He was sticking to the main points

[REDA9X]

Brock never drove the sedan while Harry was in charge. Brock returned to HDT in 78 after Harry left and the team only had one hatch, Harveys car. They had 2 sedans, one was the L34 Harry cut in half, the other was a reshell, thats the car Brock drove at Sandown in the first round for 78. Harvey later drove it at Wanaroo after crashing Brocks brand new hatch in practice at Amaroo. Harvey was complaining about his car so he and Brock swapped cars, Harvey crashed it. Brock then drove Harveys car for a few rounds while they built up a new car for Brock.

[TerrA LX]

I wasn't going to post anymore..but this thread got me..
What a shit fight..no wonder people are leaving..NOS and me included.
RED..It's a no win argument....
Thank you for your knowledge of the past and present...enjoy your car...nothing to prove.
R

It is sad people want to leave but if that's what you have to do to avoid crap in life then so be it.
I myself usually just stick to the tech section for this reason but this one slipped thru the cracks.
What I don't understand is why it was allowed to get to this?







Least we forget 6 laps.

[TerrA LX]

however a sedan has more flex in the rear end due to the doors.

And less flex in the rear due to the parcel shelf and boot/windscreen channel???

[axistr]

hsvgts, Pete you have two great examples, which one do you enjoy driving the most? and thats what it's all about not the best cornering or outright straigth line performance. Just the best enjoyable drive on any Sunday.

Always Value your opinion and you having one of each would be the best to ask here.

Axistr

[REDA9X]

No, a sedan has more flex. If a certain famous driver ever pays for the damages he caused to the roadways sedan and it goes racing again, have a look at the rear floor in it, they have to constantly reweld it, hatches never had that problem. The other advantage was better cage design in a hatch to also help stop the flex.

[HSVGTS]

hsvgts, Pete you have two great examples, which one do you enjoy driving the most? and thats what it's all about not the best cornering or outright straigth line performance. Just the best enjoyable drive on any Sunday.

Always Value your opinion and you having one of each would be the best to ask here.

Axistr

G'day Axistr, My favorite is the A9X hatch it's easier to drive and rides better than the L34, I've owned plenty of 4 door 5000's but not many hatches and I recon the A9X hatch is the toughest looking muscle car produced, only my opinion of course as there's lots of nice Toranas out there.........regards

[ToRunYa]

LOL damn.... nice collection!!

[axistr]

G'day Axistr, My favorite is the A9X hatch it's easier to drive and rides better than the L34, I've owned plenty of 4 door 5000's but not many hatches and I recon the A9X hatch is the toughest looking muscle car produced, only my opinion of course as there's lots of nice Toranas out there.........regards

HSVGTS mabe I'am a bit bias but the hatch is my first pick, they just look tuff with wide wheels and flares.

Axistr.

[REDA9X]

I think generally teams try and make a race car as stiff as they can and get traction from their springs and shocks. I know with go karting, the stiffer the axel we put in the rear, the less flex the axle has and more grip. The bad thing with flex is it weakens everything else, work hardens it and then breaks, as the floor of the Roadways car shows.

[unclefestal34s]

Well Red if that pretty much sums up what you�ve been saying all along maybe you should stop writing pages of facts and figures that smoke screen the main point of what you actually mean.

Ok, maybe I�m just thick but that�s not what I�ve understood your posts to mean or how I read them.

To tell you the truth I don�t read many of yours because of that reason. Maybe if you stick to the main points slow people like me will be able to understand them and probably agree with them.

Kind regards������

Ps. By the way it may not be a huge gap but it�s not a small one either, it�s a clear win.

does this mean the L34 won the debate..........(i guess i could have told you all that).............that's all folks

[LXM21]

does this mean the L34 won the debate..........(i guess i could have told you all that).............that's all folks

Dont think so, keep dreamin !!

[unclefestal34s]

Dont think so, keep dreamin !!

i didn't need dream like some as i've been blessed to experience it in reality,...hopefully the easter bunny is kind to you...happy easter to all..don't it take to seriously buddy..

[toranamech]

as a long term viewer in this forum, this debate has alway intrigued me, since I first got my licence in 1985, I was fortunate enough to be able to do the progression from LJ GTR ($2000), to 73 Bathurst Xu-1($5000) then to L34 High output pack($13000), but unfortunately even back in the 80's the A9X was in hallowed turf in the $15k plus bracket, so alas, never bothered to get one, drove a few, but by then most were modified, so not a real comparison.

Red A9X summed up most facts very well, especially the 253 camshaft note in the L34(check the parts catalogue), how else can you produce a car with a better flowing inlet manifold, better ignition systen, more compression, better flowing heads, better exhaust and yet still put out the same output as a stock slr 5000, infact with that camshaft, they were a bit of a dog with the mismatch of parts, but put in context, most people wre used to driving HK-T-G rubbish or smaller 6 cyl Lc-Lj so these things felt like rockets in comparison.

The Mystery High output pack, basically a Nasco box of goodies, Carby: DOZF 4510 Holley 780 vac secondary, same as 302 Z28 Camaro or Phase 3 GTHO, Camshaft : Crane solid, @ 290 duration 108 LSA .500 lift, adjustable alloy roller rockers, Oil cooler: Harrison dual pass alloy, same as Chevrolet Impala/camaro super duty kit, ( or Cessna 6 cylinder or Hercules loading door hydraulic cooler, very common :-), there was a poxy sort of an airhorn like you see on boats, sounded great, looked great, went great, but first carby backfire, it toasted the bonnet :-(. The kit sold for @ $1500 so nowdays that would be like buying a new GTS and getting stung $10k to make it go well.

NO L34 ever left the factory with this kit, adr's etc plus they just nailed the Bango diff and straw axles, the kit bumped them up to @ the 300hp mark if you ordered the extra exhaust extensions from HM headers and changed the exhaust,

L34's in stock form, were fairly dodgy by todays standard, push understeer to snap oversteer, bogged with the normal 2.78 gears, no radio etc, just designed for the homolgation rules.

PROS, Looked better, better brakes, better handling, more power (with cam change) rode better with bigger wheels and NO FN hubcaps that come off the first time you give it a serve.

CONS Diff , diff , diff diff, fn diff, fn axles..........M21 never let me down at all. Steel block on crossmember used to cause severe pad knockoff in tight situations, drums on the back.

A9X a shining light in the era of ADR smog laden shitboxes, so much so that created its own awe, the fact it was just a Torana with a nanna pack smog 5.0 albeit no engine fan, but finally great suspension geometry, better diff and brakes that the L34, it just shone out, then the bathurst victorys etc, so just that in itself eclipsed the L34 for so many years.

Now the big question, what is more collectable, mm A9X Hatchback I would think as was so unique and identifiable, then L34 with 3.08 gears GU4, then the others.

But at least I enjoyed mine when they were "affordable", I put about 30'000k's on it and went through that much fuel and tyres I could cry, but from the beaches of Tasmanian to the topend roads and whatever fun bits in between, it was all about just having fun, so the debate will always go on.