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holden 6's

Started by _darkone040_ , Apr 08 2009 09:00 AM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 _darkone040_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:00 AM

is there an idiots guide to holden 6's out there with every piece of describable information..

what block is best (red, blue or black) talking reliability and how much power it can take/provide..
what design differences are there between the different blocks are the differences improvements or were they mistakes..

what head is best (red, blue or black)..
what design differences are there between the different heads are the differences improvements or were they mistakes..
what disadvantages are there between alloy to iron heads.. there has to be some downside to the improvements they have over iron heads other than cost..

is a red 173 the same as a red 202 but with a different bore/stroke, so if you bored/stroked a 173 to a 202 would it then actually be a 202 and then can be further bored/stroked as a 202 can.. im doubting that it works like this..

are there any websites that could provide me with all this information and more..

i want to build up a reliable strong daily driver holden 6.. probably wont be able to throw tens of thousands of dollars at it or anything but would like to have a good foundation that i could build onto and improve as i go..

i have a red 173 in my LX that i have been told has been bored/stroked to a 202.. i have no idea how much it has been bored or what the length of the stroke is or what/size any of the other components are in it.. ive had if for 7 years it was running quite strong back then but now it seems a bit tired and weak, although it doesnt burn any oil or blow any smoke.. thinking of a rebuild or maby a new engine..

or maby i should just go with and efi v8 probaby end up more powerful, more efficient and cost less to build up..

cheers adrian..

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#2 Heath

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:15 AM

Blocks are all much the same. Red is not instantly compatible with the late model heads, but with a drill and a bit of time, they can modified easily.

Red is 9-port, blue and black (late models) and 12-port. So no siamesed inlet ports. late model heads have holes on the front driver's side for an 'air pump', that is what makes them readily visually distinguishable from red heads. Late models crack very easily, casting is not thick and easy to work with. You can even destroy them by installing hardened valve seats if you are unlucky : /

Alloy is good for weight in the front end, but the combination of alloy and cast iron isn't taht great, you need to run different coolant etc but putting an alloy head requires a lot of other changes lol, it's a pretty dramatic thing normally

173 is shorter stroke, narrower bore. you could make one a 202 with a 202 crank and 202 pistons and bored cylinders, yes. It could be more than 202ci, but so could a 202ci. They could be the same size. They are effectively the same shit

It would cost SFA to rebuild your motor. Putting an EFI V8 in is quite expensive but good none the less. They are both good options lol but it would seriously cost bugger all to refresh your six cylinder, regardless of what is in it. If you are gonna be happy with that, then give it a shot. If you do it and you find you want more power, sell the motor to someone and put a V8 in or whatever else

Sorry I don't have more time to discuss

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#3 yel327

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:47 AM

Adrian

I'll leave all the "which is best" stuff alone for others that have more recent knowledge than me.

To me a strong, streetable budget Holden 6 is a red 202 with blue/black crank and rods, 9.5-10:1 comp, 161/173 head to basic YT specs, 186S inlet, carb and headers, mild cam, balanced with HEI dizzy with a manual box. No screamer but tough enough.

I'd say it's VERY unlikely that your 173 has been bored and stroked to 202. It'd mean 6 sleeves to do so, or if not pretty damn thin bores (as it's a 125 thou overbore). It's pretty easy to turn a 179 or 186 into a 202 though, but why you'd bother I don't know aside from wanting it to appear as a 179 or 186.

EFI 304 conversions are not that hard or expensive at all, especially if you are nice and handy yourself. In fact aside from the complete engine purchase most of the cost involved is in the conversion from 6cyl to V8 (brakes, gearbox, tailshaft, radiator, sump, exhaust etc). So to go from a 6cyl to a good secondhand EFI 304 would cost awful close to what it would cost to fit a carbied 308.

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#4 _CraigA_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:59 AM

This is great info.

Holden 6 Guide

Edited by CraigA, 08 April 2009 - 12:00 PM.

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#5 _NZ Toranaman_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:46 PM

I agree with above :spoton:

A balanced package is what you need and yel describes the tried and true method.

The old days when I lived in Sydney in the mid eighties there were heaps of tuff 6 cylinders around, my mates had the same as above and they were no slouches and drove like a kitten in traffic if they needed to unlike my beast of the day.

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#6 _why-psi_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:18 PM

heres a balanced package

the blowers weight is balanced by my weight

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#7 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:19 PM

To me a strong, streetable budget Holden 6 is a red 202 with blue/black crank and rods, 9.5-10:1 comp, 161/173 head to basic YT specs, 186S inlet, carb and headers, mild cam, balanced with HEI dizzy with a manual box. No screamer but tough enough

You are spot on. I have had this combo in the past and had great results. I run this combo down the quarter and it would run a 15.2 all day. Stay away from 350 holley as a WW2 carb (161s/186s/early 253carby) will more than match the Holley in performance but destroy the Holley in fuel economy. You could still run a red crank and really not notice any difference with this combo.
Love that balanced package why-psi.

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#8 _Squarepants_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:38 PM

Sorry, a bit off topic, what carby came on a 186s?
I run a 320 holley on my 202 and am not overly impressed with performance OR economy, so if I can get the same performance with better economy, it may be worth my while changing.
I know where I can get a 186s manifold, just wondering what (and how rare) the stocko 186s carby's are???

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#9 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:59 PM

The 186s run the WW2 stromberg carby. Great carby and when I had it on the side of my old old engine I loved it. They also bolted these carbs to the old school 253's but you will have to change the jets if you get a V8 version and bolt it to a 6.

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#10 FastEHHolden

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:11 PM

They are called WW Stromberg...you can also find them on 253's but the jetting is a little large.

Another very good choice is the carby off an XE Falcon...if you are desperate a Varijet off a blue six is good if you can set it up...they are a bit cantankerous

Edited by FastEHHolden, 08 April 2009 - 08:13 PM.

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#11 _Squarepants_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:36 PM

Damn! I used to have an XF weber but I gave it to my upholsterer to reduce the bill a little.
How hard are the ww Strommy's to find?
What are they worth?
Anyone in Brizzy got one to get rid of?

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#12 _darkone040_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:27 PM

wow thanks all thats alot of information.. yeah id prefer to keep the 6 in it.. now atleast i know that its possible to rebuild mine even if its got a big overbore..

hehe talking about carbies mines basically falling apart so im looking into upgrading whatever it is i have on there.. not entirely sure..
http://cgi.ebay.com....oQQcmdZViewItem
is this the carbie everyone is talking about and would that be a good price for it..

what would a good manifold be for the ww2 carbie

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#13 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:42 PM

Yes, that link you posted is a WW2 stromberg. In regard to manifold, don't go to big. The larger the manifold you get, the slower the air speed through it. You need good air speed for your application so I would recomend the std Holden manifold.

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#14 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:54 PM

wow thanks all thats alot of information.. yeah id prefer to keep the 6 in it.. now atleast i know that its possible to rebuild mine even if its got a big overbore..

hehe talking about carbies mines basically falling apart so im looking into upgrading whatever it is i have on there.. not entirely sure..
http://cgi.ebay.com....oQQcmdZViewItem
is this the carbie everyone is talking about and would that be a good price for it..

what would a good manifold be for the ww2 carbie

I'd go for the XE Falcon Weber over the old ww2. The Weber won't perform massively better but it will be an improvement plus they aren't so old and so likely to be badly worn out.. Standard 2 barrel manifolds are fine for a mild engine. The Ultraflow manifolds made by Matilda Foundries are very highly regarded, especially by the speedway guys though I haven't tried one personally.

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#15 LX2DR

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:54 PM

They are called WW Stromberg...you can also find them on 253's but the jetting is a little large.

Another very good choice is the carby off an XE Falcon...if you are desperate a Varijet off a blue six is good if you can set it up...they are a bit cantankerous

Also the power valve is 2 stage and have heard this causes some hesitation.
Another member has been down the path of getting a V8 item modded to work.
Plenty of info here
http://www.gmh-toran.......st&p=166846
And here
http://www.gmh-toran.......st&p=178285

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#16 _tyre fryer_

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 12:52 AM

I have a rebuilt and tuned fresh WW stromberg and manifold in Adelaide if anyone is interested.
PM me.

Had one on my 202 in my UC, mad miles of difference, worlds more torque.

Edited by tyre fryer, 09 April 2009 - 12:55 AM.

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#17 _bon_scott_

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:02 AM

if you are desperate a Varijet off a blue six is good if you can set it up...they are a bit cantankerous

Not wrong there. The one off my old 2850, after being rebuilt one day would allow the engine to rev once, then fall off, then rev again and fall off again. Was very weird. Then I had an 80,000km rebuilt one from a vk 202 which was ok, but setting the thing up was a bitch and a half. Finally bit the bullet and bought a reco one of ebay. Best $175 I've spent on the thing, the new carb is worlds away from the other two buckets of shit. Also I don't know how the ww strommy, holley or the falcon weber are for response, but I quite enjoy the transition from the primary to secondary throttle butterfuly of the varijet. Comparable I reckon to honda's vtec ahaha.