Hi Guys and Gals,
I have a dillemma, a conundrum if you will.
I just picked up a heap of black motor parts for free and am considering whether I should build a hot black 6 (ala NZToranaman) or go for a turbo Ecotec V6 or a Supra 2JZ turbo.
I like the simplicity of the black motor, the originality and "holden badged" performance of the ecotec turbo, and the outright superior performance of the 2JZ turbo.
I know I will pay more for the last 2 options but the potential is much greater.
I'm currently running a mild red 202 which I'm a little disappointed and bored with (performance wise).
Basically, I want to be able to smoke tyres willy nilly, which I know the black motor prolly won't do, but I'm wondering if that would be money well spent untill I can afford a fuel injected turbo 6 (either one) or should I just save my money to do what I really want?
I think I know what I should do but I just want some different points of view.
P.S. Please don't suggest I go for a V8 as I really want to stick with a 6 cyl.
P.P.S. I don't want a RB30DET either.
Hot holden 6 or turbo 6 conversion?
Started by
_Squarepants_
, Apr 16 2009 10:47 PM
27 replies to this topic
#2
FastEHHolden
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 07:51 AM
if you were going to go to the trouble of doing a conversion...wouldn't you go all out? The cost and difficultly of fitting a 2JZ wouldn't be that much more than a V6 turbo.....and I think you will just end up disappointed with any version of a Holden 6...and the fuel bill of a worked Holden 6 will come in at about what the 2JZ will but it will get 3 times the power.
My money..from the list you gave...2JZ
My money..from the list you gave...2JZ
#3
wot179
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 08:52 AM
2JZ engines freaking screeeem.Good value for money high performance.
#4
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 12:45 PM
2JZ engines freaking screeeem.Good value for money high performance.
^X2
my mates 2j with bolt on bits (big turbo etc) makes 430hp, using "all" standard eng internals, and its on a engine that had already been driven over 150,000ks
some people have claimed over 700hp on standard internals !
MT
#5
_Big T_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 01:01 PM
After seeing MT's mates 2JZ in action I would totally agree. If I had the time, money and patience I would love to sleeperize my LX. What the yanks are doing with 2JZ's is incredible and its just starting to catch on over here.
Do a forum search on 2JZ. The question has been asked before and there are some good threads relating to this conversion. I was having a look myself the other day.
Do a forum search on 2JZ. The question has been asked before and there are some good threads relating to this conversion. I was having a look myself the other day.
#6
_LXATIV_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 01:31 PM
Out of all the options you've listed, definetly the 2JZ. I know a bloke who's currently putting one into an old valiant. That thing is going to scream and the best thing is it only cost him around 3k from memory and that was with the computer and gearbox as well
If you want something different, how bout putting in a 265 Hemi? Easy to buy parts for plus its not too hard to make em look more like a holden motor for that more sleeper approach
If you want something different, how bout putting in a 265 Hemi? Easy to buy parts for plus its not too hard to make em look more like a holden motor for that more sleeper approach
#7
_oldjohnno_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 01:56 PM
For horsepower per dollar you won't beat the 2jz. You can get a front cut complete with tranny and computer for less than what it would cost to build a hot holden six and you'll have more power than the hot Holden as well. Much more power actually..
#8
Heath
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:08 PM
If you want something that you can install in a weekend, the Holden 6 would be the way to go.
Both of the other options are going to be big projects, with a big outlay. But anyone with half a brain is gonna see a 2JZ in a Torana and cream, you will not get that effect with many motors... An ecotec will look and sound like crap, but could still go very nicely.
Re: price of a 2JZ. Just because you can get one cheaply doesn't mean you can do anything special on it without spending a lot. It's still more expensive than hotting up like a 7M-GTE or an RB25DET...
Both of the other options are going to be big projects, with a big outlay. But anyone with half a brain is gonna see a 2JZ in a Torana and cream, you will not get that effect with many motors... An ecotec will look and sound like crap, but could still go very nicely.
Re: price of a 2JZ. Just because you can get one cheaply doesn't mean you can do anything special on it without spending a lot. It's still more expensive than hotting up like a 7M-GTE or an RB25DET...
#9
orangeLJ
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:16 PM
I dont know heath, purchase price aside, the 2JZ would still be relatively cheap to modify (AM computer, bigger turbos maybe injectors and away you go)
#10
_Big T_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:31 PM
From what I have read the steering on the Torana is on the same side as the exhuast for a 2J so a bit of trickery is required in that respect.
#11
orangeLJ
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 03:11 PM
I was talking more about the "doing anything special" with the 2JZ over something like an RB
#12
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 03:57 PM
Yeh when i looked into the 2j conversion for the torrie, for sure the 2j optoin would be a bit harder and more expensive to buy & fit (why i changed and went with the RB instead) but 2js have come down in price a fair bit now.
i think orangeLJ is talking about the same amount of effort and $$ required to get the standard engine to go fast once in the car, as in all the bolt-on HP components.
eg, to add a Big turbo would cost around the same for each engine.
Heath does sort of have a point tho, the main difference is that 2js are so tuff standard, not many parts are floating around to pick up cheap goodies (especialy second hand) like with the RBs.
I wanted to find a Harmonic Balancer for a 2j, could not get new ,used or aftermarket, but if i wanted one for a RB heaps of options are available and in stock.
MT
i think orangeLJ is talking about the same amount of effort and $$ required to get the standard engine to go fast once in the car, as in all the bolt-on HP components.
eg, to add a Big turbo would cost around the same for each engine.
Heath does sort of have a point tho, the main difference is that 2js are so tuff standard, not many parts are floating around to pick up cheap goodies (especialy second hand) like with the RBs.
I wanted to find a Harmonic Balancer for a 2j, could not get new ,used or aftermarket, but if i wanted one for a RB heaps of options are available and in stock.
MT
#13
yel327
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 04:50 PM
If you want something different, how bout putting in a 265 Hemi? Easy to buy parts for plus its not too hard to make em look more like a holden motor for that more sleeper approach
^^ Agree 100%!! That or a 292 Chev 6 which looks even more like a Holden 6 and will bolt straight to a TH400, TH700, Muncie, Saginaw ie anything that fits behind a SBC. Either one with mild mods will smoke a stock 308. Then turbo it later!
#14
_oldjohnno_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 05:45 PM
Stock 292 bottom ends suffer from horrendous torsional vibration when the rpm range is raised, plus they are heavier than a SBC. If a straight six with more cubes is appealing then a 1FZ-FE would be nice: DOHC 24 valve and 273cu in...
#15
_UCV80_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 06:32 PM
RB30ET , pretty cheap parts, They go awesome, can get conversion parts off the shelf.
my vl turbo is a rocket with basic mods yet still very streetable and around 500km per 50L tank
my vl turbo is a rocket with basic mods yet still very streetable and around 500km per 50L tank
#16
_Squarepants_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 06:41 PM
RB30ET , pretty cheap parts, They go awesome, can get conversion parts off the shelf.
my vl turbo is a rocket with basic mods yet still very streetable and around 500km per 50L tank
I don't doubt that but if I'm gonna do a big conversion I'd rather have something newer and a little bit different. I've seen quite a few RB30's in Tory's.
I reckon I've definately made up my mind now, 2J it is (when I can afford it). That is what I really wanted to do, I was just concerned that it was a bit sacreligios.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
#17
_UCV80_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 07:00 PM
^^
2J would be the superior engine to get over a RB30, would cost more all up though... would be worth it if you can afford it. Alot more Go then a black 202 lol. iv seen alot of powerfull ones around... had a hotted up 550hp supra on 20psi up against my torana and they where neck on neck, lost the race in the end as i dont have a 3rd gear. still 3L turbo vs warm 6.3L v8. Power would be more insane in a light Torana.
2J would be the superior engine to get over a RB30, would cost more all up though... would be worth it if you can afford it. Alot more Go then a black 202 lol. iv seen alot of powerfull ones around... had a hotted up 550hp supra on 20psi up against my torana and they where neck on neck, lost the race in the end as i dont have a 3rd gear. still 3L turbo vs warm 6.3L v8. Power would be more insane in a light Torana.
#18
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 07:12 PM
Just as a matter of interest though, a jzed 202 is capable of flowing well over 400hp.
Strengthen the bottom end and bang on a hair dryer, a 55 weber and knock sensor to keep an eye on it. Just maybe a cheaper and not so regular run of the mill engine?
Strengthen the bottom end and bang on a hair dryer, a 55 weber and knock sensor to keep an eye on it. Just maybe a cheaper and not so regular run of the mill engine?
#19
_oldjohnno_
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 08:12 PM
That would certainly be interesting but I'm not sure about cheaper.. It's not unusual for 2j's to make 600-800hp reliably on a basically stock long-block. Realistically a Holden six just ain't gonna do that and stay together, no matter what head is on it. Sport Compacts with 2J's run well into the sixes at over 200mph and I've heard of dragsters running fives. I'm pretty sure a reliable 500hp engine could be put together for not much more than a JZED head kit. Don't get me wrong, I have a huge soft spot for the little Holdens but lets not kid ourselves. I've always been a bit of a traditionalist but after witnessing the Gas Camry in action at WSID I was staggered by the strength and performance of these things. If you haven't seen and heard them at the strip go have a look or you'll probably find clips on youtube. Amazing stuff..Just as a matter of interest though, a jzed 202 is capable of flowing well over 400hp.
Strengthen the bottom end and bang on a hair dryer, a 55 weber and knock sensor to keep an eye on it. Just maybe a cheaper and not so regular run of the mill engine?
ps. I know horsepower isn't everything and there's limits to how much you can use in a street car anyway.. the Holden motor you suggest does sound appealing.
#20
_oldjohnno_
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#21
_NZ Toranaman_
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Posted 18 April 2009 - 05:32 AM
Here is a street car in NZ that has developed into a sub 8 second weapon using an RB30. Its believed to be the quickest street RB30. 1100+ HP
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sukNUm7oEd4
I love the 6's and my soft spot is the holden six and love when people say "you did that with a 202!"... "that certainly aint like the 202 I have!"
I have been often heard as saying the 202 design is terrible but it dates from its first production in the 1963 EH and in 4 more years the red turns 50 and I think I will have one very fast 50 year old
At the end of the day do the homework and remember all the re-engineering thats needed for a different motor compared to a reconfig of what you have can sometimes come to 1000's of hidden costs. The one thing is you will be happy as you are making a leap up from what you have
The reason I went with what I have now is the RB I considered was going be alot more work than I had ever done and my car had a decleration cert which allows me to run anything that a 202/3.3 came out with either as standard or optional from factory and I would have had to recert for anything else at around $350 and I had a total budget of only NZ$5k and I was only off the road 1 month.
2j or not 2j?
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sukNUm7oEd4
I love the 6's and my soft spot is the holden six and love when people say "you did that with a 202!"... "that certainly aint like the 202 I have!"
I have been often heard as saying the 202 design is terrible but it dates from its first production in the 1963 EH and in 4 more years the red turns 50 and I think I will have one very fast 50 year old
At the end of the day do the homework and remember all the re-engineering thats needed for a different motor compared to a reconfig of what you have can sometimes come to 1000's of hidden costs. The one thing is you will be happy as you are making a leap up from what you have
The reason I went with what I have now is the RB I considered was going be alot more work than I had ever done and my car had a decleration cert which allows me to run anything that a 202/3.3 came out with either as standard or optional from factory and I would have had to recert for anything else at around $350 and I had a total budget of only NZ$5k and I was only off the road 1 month.
2j or not 2j?
#22
_Squarepants_
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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:23 PM
I know this is pretty much a dead topic now but I think I just figured out how to post pics and I wanted to show y'all why I was contemplating the turbo 3.8L.
This was my mates VN:
I hope this works!
It's not an Ecotec but it gives you some idea.
This was the first car I've been in that I felt I had to hang on.
815Nm on 8PSI, and he had it up to 15PSI before he sold it.
I still like the 2J idea though.
This was my mates VN:
I hope this works!
It's not an Ecotec but it gives you some idea.
This was the first car I've been in that I felt I had to hang on.
815Nm on 8PSI, and he had it up to 15PSI before he sold it.
I still like the 2J idea though.
#23
_rammaLH_
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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:34 PM
holden V6's are just a crap motor full stop in my unprofessional opinion.
2JZ or RB26DETT are both brilliant and respond super well to mods. Have you thought about an rb30 with a 25 or 26 head?
2JZ or RB26DETT are both brilliant and respond super well to mods. Have you thought about an rb30 with a 25 or 26 head?
#24
_ChevLX_77_
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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:23 PM
holden V6's are just a crap motor full stop in my unprofessional opinion.
2JZ or RB26DETT are both brilliant and respond super well to mods. Have you thought about an rb30 with a 25 or 26 head?
Im interested as into why you think they are a crap motor.....
Ecotec's are a tuff motor they can cop a flogging and with minor mods can produce decent power
2J's are a very tuff engine, but are quite costly, have you thought 1J's half a litre smaller but fairly similar plus you can get them for around a grand with twin turbos
The Nissan RB's are good up to a certain point then they need serious modification
Or Alloytec, they are starting to make serious power with these engines
#25
_186 torana_
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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:54 AM
all good thoughts but u cant beat the power off the 2jz but u cant beat the sound off a worked 202 choices choices
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