589 replies to this topic

[Statler]

Is there an internal hi-flow pump from another vehicle that would do the job? I would really like NOT having an external pump. 

 

I should have the option of which boss is fitted. 

Edited by Statler, 17 November 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[xu2308]

Getting there Col, you and Hanra are cursed with the thingy's going wrong trick, frustrating but you will get there in time

[SmacT]

VT fuel pumps are all in one, no need for a surge tank or lift pump, but are too tall for a stock Torana tank I think. They need shortening to fit a drop tank.

Derrin71 has another $500 option in his build thread, which works in any tank and is a great option.

I looked at surge tank options etc for mine, but decided on the VT pump/drop tank option for me. My engine will only be mild so it works.

[SmacT]

http://www.gmh-toran...project/page-17

Here. $550 from Summit back then.

[derrin71]

This pump is a great option. You keep the standard sender just block off the fuel pickup as you don't need it.

It would also work fine on a drop tank. Just remember you will need to lower the tank by about 25-30mm like i did as the pump goes into the top of the tank.

It needs to run a return line which will be fine as it liiks like you are using EFI. If not you can use a regulator with a retur to tank.

[ls2lxhatch]

The aeromotive phantom is a neat solution however the will be plenty of situations where it can run dry. It relies on a small amount of fuel being trapped in the black area. which can leak out as fast as it can come in once the fuel level is below the yellow foam area.

 

 

 

 

If you want to guarantee fuel supply in a shallow tank then you really need a surge tank. If the surge tank has to be mounted above the fuel tank then you need a lift pump.

 

As a ballpark figure an N/A engine producing 400 hp (estimated BSFC 0.45) will need around 2L per minute and a 400 hp forced induction engine (estimated BSFC 0.675) will need around 3L per minute.

 

If the aeromotive fuel pump has trapped 0.2L of fuel then it will be dry in around 6 seconds for the 400 hp NA and 4 seconds for the 400 hp forced induction.

 

lbs/hr = HP * BSFC

 

1 lbs/hr = 0.17 US Gallons/hr

1 US Gallon = 3.78541 L

 

http://aeromotiveinc...and-horsepower/

 

[Statler]

The blower kit doesn't require a pump upgrade.

 

Is there a reason as to why i can't use the std sender (gauge will work then) & simply use the VN hi flow pump mounted externally?

 

The new tank is a Brown Davis. It has internal swirl pot & 1/2" lines.

[Statler]

Sorry for the contradicting questions guys. I'm trying to get my head around it. 

[ls2lxhatch]

The Brown Davis swirl pot is basically a box around 200mm x 200mm x 50mm with one or two holes in it for the fuel to flow in. There is no provision for a return line back into the swirl pot. It is not suitable for EFI.
 
This is a photo taken from a video inside the Brown Davis tank.
 

 
The swirl pot is ok for a typical mechanical pump carby system where the pump only takes the fuel required to keep the float bowl full and the float bowl gives a little buffer if the pump runs dry.
 
An EFI fuel pump is always pumping flat out unless you have a pump controller. Any fuel not required by the engine is returned to the fuel tank via the regulator bypass return line. This line is usually plumbed to the surge tank so the surge tank fuel level will only drop when fuel is consumed by the engine. As the Brown Davis swirl pot does not have provision for a return line it will be emptied in seconds by the EFI pump.
 

 
If you don't want to run a surge tank and lift pump then you will need to keep the Brown Davis tank around 1/2 full. Even with the tank 1/2 full your pump will probably run dry and pump aerated fuel into the fuel rails under heavy braking.

Another option is to weld a sump with a return line into the Brown Davis tank. The sump will trap enough fuel to handle the fuel requirements during surge. The sump is basically a gravity fed surge tank.

 

Something like this.

 

 

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 18 November 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[Statler]

From BD,

 

Our standard tank for the Torana is 120lt (smaller tanks can be made as required) and is designed to take the standard pickup/gauge sender assembly, it fills through the standard filler spot & connects to the original venting system to keep it roadworthy. The tanks have no ugly straps under them and bracket into the chassis rails as did all the original race car tanks.
1/2" pick ups & swirl pots can be fitted into the tanks for EFI or big engined cars as we make them using the original pickup as the return if needed.

 

So if the return is going back into the swirl pot, fuel would have to feed to a hi-flow pump because the lift pump wouldn't be required? 

The VN pump has a regulator fitted inline.

[ls2lxhatch]

I fell for the Brown Davis claims that their tank is suitable for EFI and bought a tank.  When it arrived I had a look inside at the "swirl pot" and realised I had wasted my money.

 

Brown Davis use the factory fuel sender pickup as the return line. The factory fuel sender pickup is nowhere near the swirl pot. If fuel is not returned to the swirl pot it will empty as fast as your EFI pump can pump. Even if the return line was plumbed to the Brown Davis "swirl pot" it is still only marginally suitable for EFI.

 

The only way a swirl pot will work for EFI is if you keep the fuel level high enough in the tank so the swirl pot is always submerged during acceleration, cornering and braking.

 

 

 

 

[Statler]

1/2hr on the phone to David Brown & it looks like i'm putting a surge tank in the boot like everybody else.

[Statler]

3rd pair of handbrake cables. I can't win!

 

[Ice]

Probably wont be the last col

[Statler]

After a long search i finally found a Ford XD brake booster. The front cover plate & actuating rod was removed & fitted to the stock Torana booster. The booster also required a full reco. 

 

This allowed me to bolt on the XD master cylinder which has an internal proportioning valve. It also has metric threads so it ISN'T a straight bolt in if anyone is planning to replicate this mod. 

 

 

I also drilled the hole for the clutch cable before the booster was bolted in for the last time. 

 

Thanks to Datto for his advise (as usual).  

 

When these pesky handbrake cables are sorted the car car go into the shop for a complete re-tube of the lines. This is a job i am happy to leave to the pro's. 

[Statler]

New pair of lower control arms.

 

[Statler]

Picked these up today. 

 

 

I had been avoiding chrome anything. 

[Mort]

Nice, are they the ones you got from Damien.

[Statler]

Yep. They cleaned up well. 

[Statler]

This finally arrived. 

 

 

Has anyone used these?  http://www.aftermark...ator-1400-p177/

Edited by Statler, 22 February 2014 - 04:45 PM.

[Mort]

Good to see, any sight of the pump yet.

[Statler]

And its in.

 

 

Pump arrived Mort. Now waiting on the rest of the fuel system to arrive. 

 

Exhaust tail pipes are going to need modifying. 

 

Looks a little better than the strapped tank.

 

Edited by Statler, 06 March 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[Potta]

I call bullsh1t.

No way you bought something that bolted straight in with no mods within a week :-)

[Statler]

I call bullsh1t.

No way you bought something that bolted straight in with no mods within a week :-)

Hahqhqhahaahaha! 

Let's see how the 'plug in' goes.