ok so im planning on putting a UC 6cyl front suspension into my LX..
at the moment the UC front end is being put together..
i have been told that the crossmember in my LX is a 4cyl one which has got the 173 sitting on top of it..
now what problems can i encounter when i put the UC one in..
-the engine could be in a different position??
--the tail shaft could need shortening?
--the gearbox crossmember need modifying?
or am i just paraniod...
the way ive planned to do this is..
lift the engine and car off of the suspension..
roll the old suspension out..
roll in the new suspension..
bolt it all up..
bleed the brakes..
roberts your fathers brother..
all done.. minus a wheel alignment..
i just need to get the guards rolled before i do any of this just in case i cant get my 15" * 8" with 5" backspace centerlines under the front guards..
what do people think.
UC front suspension into LX
Started by
_darkone040_
, Jun 23 2009 08:31 AM
29 replies to this topic
#2
MRLXSS
-
- Members
-
- 12,400 posts
The Render Garage
- Name:Matt
- Location:Upwey, Melbourne
- Car:355 LX Hatchback, DeLorean DMC-12, LX SS Hatch, VY Cross8 Crewman
- Joined: 09-November 05
Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:43 AM
Try and grab a pic of the current engine mounts.
If it is a Opel 4cyl Crossmember, The engine mounts to mount the 173 will probably be "custom"
So you might just need to get some proper engine mounts so it will mount properly on the new crossmember. If its not an Opel 4cyl one, the motor will drop straight on no problems.
p.s, Roberts actually my mothers, sisters, husband...
If it is a Opel 4cyl Crossmember, The engine mounts to mount the 173 will probably be "custom"
So you might just need to get some proper engine mounts so it will mount properly on the new crossmember. If its not an Opel 4cyl one, the motor will drop straight on no problems.
p.s, Roberts actually my mothers, sisters, husband...
Edited by MRLXSS, 23 June 2009 - 08:44 AM.
#3
View GaragePosted 23 June 2009 - 09:15 AM
It will slot straight in and everything will sit right using standard 6 cylinder engine mounts. Don't worry, be happy 
#4
ls2lxhatch
-
- Members
-
- 5,332 posts
- Location:Perth
- Car:LX Hatch
- Joined: 29-May 06
Posted 23 June 2009 - 01:06 PM
Rolling the the guards will only gain a small amount of extra clearance. I recommend you check that the extra 5-10 mm of clearance is worth the effort before rolling the guards.
You may find some tips for installing the k-frame on this page.
You may find some tips for installing the k-frame on this page.
#5
fuzzypumper
-
- Members
-
- 929 posts
Forum Fixture
- Name:Archie
- Location:Melbourne Eastern
- Joined: 30-December 06
Posted 23 June 2009 - 02:56 PM
If the tyres fit under the gaurds before , they should fit with UC frontend unless you done some major brake upgrade and changed the track.
As MRLXSS requested, show us pics of the current custon engine mount+engine chassis mount as well as a picture of your centre console+gear selector positioning because if it is custom it could have been done different to factory. But really, worst case means you might need a proper 6cyl tailshaft and may have to cut a hole further down the tunnel due to repositioning of the gear selector.
As MRLXSS requested, show us pics of the current custon engine mount+engine chassis mount as well as a picture of your centre console+gear selector positioning because if it is custom it could have been done different to factory. But really, worst case means you might need a proper 6cyl tailshaft and may have to cut a hole further down the tunnel due to repositioning of the gear selector.
#6
_darkone040_
_darkone040_
-
- Guests
Posted 24 June 2009 - 05:03 AM
will get some pics soon..
thanks that page gave me a few ideas.. i like the paint scraper idea to let all the arms slide into place..
also need to get a tapered rod..
the springs/shocks are standard suspension height king/bilsteins
the wheels are new.. well not new but alot different to the ones i have on now and ive got the hoppers stoppers brake upgrade so id prefer to roll the guards just in case, 5-10 mm might be the difference it takes to be able to turn without having to slow down to walking pace..
also got a commodore vs diff on the back so if i need to shorten the tailshaft i cant just swap it with another 6cyl tailshaft..
and 76LXhatch, i hope your right
cheers adrian
thanks that page gave me a few ideas.. i like the paint scraper idea to let all the arms slide into place..
also need to get a tapered rod..
the springs/shocks are standard suspension height king/bilsteins
the wheels are new.. well not new but alot different to the ones i have on now and ive got the hoppers stoppers brake upgrade so id prefer to roll the guards just in case, 5-10 mm might be the difference it takes to be able to turn without having to slow down to walking pace..
also got a commodore vs diff on the back so if i need to shorten the tailshaft i cant just swap it with another 6cyl tailshaft..
and 76LXhatch, i hope your right
cheers adrian
#7
_darkone040_
_darkone040_
-
- Guests
Posted 25 June 2009 - 08:45 AM
pictures of the drivers side engine mount.. im abit unsure what you are looking for.. so hopefully these are the right angles..
from what i can see it looks the same as the UC one..
also not really able to get a pic of the shifter as the rubber boot has been bolted over it.. dont want to rip it up
from what i can see it looks the same as the UC one..
also not really able to get a pic of the shifter as the rubber boot has been bolted over it.. dont want to rip it up
Edited by darkone040, 25 June 2009 - 08:57 AM.
#8
TerrA LX
-
- Members
-
- 14,241 posts
Fulcrum Fixture
- Location:Sid 'n' knee
- Joined: 31-May 06
Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:29 AM
^ is that the UC, need pics of the LX to see if it differs...
#9
Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:52 AM
If that's the LX and you have a six cylinder UC front end then the engine mounts will swap straight over. All factory
#10
fuzzypumper
-
- Members
-
- 929 posts
Forum Fixture
- Name:Archie
- Location:Melbourne Eastern
- Joined: 30-December 06
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:30 PM
Looks like it already has the UC 6cyl front end already from the previous conversion. The Flexible steering joint Cover/ Shield is the giveaway. They only came on UC subframes, didnt they?
#11
_darkone040_
_darkone040_
-
- Guests
Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:38 PM
those pics are of the LX 4cyl one..
well thats what ive been told it is..
it would be quite funny if ive already got the UC 6cyl one in there.. all this messing about for nothing.. lol..
cant get pics of the UC 6cyl one as its stil getting put together at the shop.
ill drop in there monday morning to see how much he has done and get a photo.
cheers adrian.
well thats what ive been told it is..
it would be quite funny if ive already got the UC 6cyl one in there.. all this messing about for nothing.. lol..
cant get pics of the UC 6cyl one as its stil getting put together at the shop.
ill drop in there monday morning to see how much he has done and get a photo.
cheers adrian.
#12
TerrA LX
-
- Members
-
- 14,241 posts
Fulcrum Fixture
- Location:Sid 'n' knee
- Joined: 31-May 06
Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:22 PM
All UC are the same AFAIK.
#13
_The Baron_
_The Baron_
-
- Guests
Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:31 PM
LX has the cover too although it may be a late addition.
Can you take photos of where the steering rack bolts on. The UC is unique how it bolts up.
Also, all the engine mounts that are part of the X member are the same for all LH,LX,UC except for the Opel 4 banger. I think that was early LX sunbudge but I may be wrong.
I see you are in Adelaide, are you north, south, etc. Someone may offer to come around and identify it for you.
Can you take photos of where the steering rack bolts on. The UC is unique how it bolts up.
Also, all the engine mounts that are part of the X member are the same for all LH,LX,UC except for the Opel 4 banger. I think that was early LX sunbudge but I may be wrong.
I see you are in Adelaide, are you north, south, etc. Someone may offer to come around and identify it for you.
Edited by The Baron, 25 June 2009 - 11:32 PM.
#14
Toranavista
-
- Members
-
- 2,862 posts
'Let There Be Rock' 1977
- Location:CANBERRA
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:38 AM
If that is a 4 cylinder front end it is out of a Sept onwards UC and correct for the six and eight conversion. It doesnt look like a lH/LX 4 cyclinder front end.
Edited by Toranavista, 26 June 2009 - 07:40 AM.
#15
_darkone040_
_darkone040_
-
- Guests
Posted 29 June 2009 - 05:16 PM
ok heres a few pics of the steering rack where it bolts on..
the bushes arnt solid so it def a LX steering rack..
stil wanting to know if its a 4cyl or 6cyl front assembly..
cheers adrian
the bushes arnt solid so it def a LX steering rack..
stil wanting to know if its a 4cyl or 6cyl front assembly..
cheers adrian
#16
Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:46 PM
Its definitely a 6/8 cross member as evidenced by the mounts. Could also be 4 cylinder Starfire as they were the same, I have no idea what models they were available in though. As you say the steering rack is not UC since it is bushed, if the brakes are also factory I would guess late LX.
#17
ls2lxhatch
-
- Members
-
- 5,332 posts
- Location:Perth
- Car:LX Hatch
- Joined: 29-May 06
Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:18 PM
The Starfire 4 cyl (holden 6 cyl with two cylinders cut off) uses the same k-frame as the 6 cyl and V8. The Opel 4 cyl uses a different mount on the k-frame.
Pictures from parts manual.
The bracket in view A is welded to the k-frame for the Starfire 4 cyl, 6 cyl and V8.
Bracket part #7 in this picture is welded to the k-frame to mount the Opel 4 cyl motor.
Pictures from parts manual.
The bracket in view A is welded to the k-frame for the Starfire 4 cyl, 6 cyl and V8.
Bracket part #7 in this picture is welded to the k-frame to mount the Opel 4 cyl motor.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 29 June 2009 - 09:19 PM.
#18
_The Baron_
_The Baron_
-
- Guests
Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:59 PM
Agreed^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^LH/LX spitfire 4/6/8
#19
_darkone040_
_darkone040_
-
- Guests
Posted 30 June 2009 - 07:47 AM
ok thats good to hear, should be easy as 1, 2, 3..
now out of curiosity.. what differences are there with my kframe that is in there now to the UC 6cyl one that ill be putting in..
coz if they are the same this conversion would of been alot easier than what i have made it..
lol i always try an do things the hard way
cheers for all your help ppls.
adrian.
now out of curiosity.. what differences are there with my kframe that is in there now to the UC 6cyl one that ill be putting in..
coz if they are the same this conversion would of been alot easier than what i have made it..
lol i always try an do things the hard way
cheers for all your help ppls.
adrian.
#20
ls2lxhatch
-
- Members
-
- 5,332 posts
- Location:Perth
- Car:LX Hatch
- Joined: 29-May 06
Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:11 AM
Upper control arms on the UC k-frame have offset ball joints which gives positive caster.
Upper control arm mounting holes on the UC k-frame are higher than the LX k-frame. This and the rag joint cover are the only differences I am aware of between a bare 6/V8 UC,LX and LH k-frame.
Steering rack on UC is solid mounted.
Lower control arms on UC have bump stops for the UC steering arms and larger holes for the shocks to fit through.
UC steering arms have less bump steer than the LX steering arms.
I would expect the springs to be different but I can not confirm this.
The topic is covered in this thread.
Upper control arm mounting holes on the UC k-frame are higher than the LX k-frame. This and the rag joint cover are the only differences I am aware of between a bare 6/V8 UC,LX and LH k-frame.
Steering rack on UC is solid mounted.
Lower control arms on UC have bump stops for the UC steering arms and larger holes for the shocks to fit through.
UC steering arms have less bump steer than the LX steering arms.
I would expect the springs to be different but I can not confirm this.
The topic is covered in this thread.
#21
_Squarepants_
_Squarepants_
-
- Guests
Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:17 PM
As above, and the UC ones have the small steel bits welded to the tops of the outer ends of the x-member, just under the UCA's.
I'm still not exactly sure what they're for. Someone said they're to hook the top of the stub on when upper ball joints are disconnected???
I'm still not exactly sure what they're for. Someone said they're to hook the top of the stub on when upper ball joints are disconnected???
#22
ls2lxhatch
-
- Members
-
- 5,332 posts
- Location:Perth
- Car:LX Hatch
- Joined: 29-May 06
Posted 30 June 2009 - 05:08 PM
I was wondering how many differences I would miss or forget, it would be nice to make a wikki from the differences thread.
I thought the small steel bit was a bump stop if the rubber bump stop compressed to the limit. I suspect it has something to do with the change in the angle of the upper control arm due to moving the mounting holes higher.
I thought the small steel bit was a bump stop if the rubber bump stop compressed to the limit. I suspect it has something to do with the change in the angle of the upper control arm due to moving the mounting holes higher.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 30 June 2009 - 05:10 PM.
#23
_Squarepants_
_Squarepants_
-
- Guests
Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:58 PM
I have heard this idea before, however I can't think why an extra stop is required when the UCA is moved higher, ie. further away from the point that little lug is positioned.
I don't know if my theory is correct either.
I would love to hear a definative explaination behind it.
I don't know if my theory is correct either.
I would love to hear a definative explaination behind it.
#24
Posted 01 July 2009 - 09:39 PM
Maybe its a failsafe so that if the bump stop goes missing, it can't hit the ball joint (or get too close)
#25
_89'King_
_89'King_
-
- Guests
Posted 02 July 2009 - 01:08 PM
Hi guys
just wondering if i could tap into someones knowledge bank for a sec...
my LH torana has a UC front end in it, was like that when i bough it. now while everything is fine and nothing has fallen off since ive owned it there it alot of banging going on when turning... its a v8 and has pedders red riders in it.. originally there were heavy duty lowered springs but it was stiff as and felt like there was no suspension whilst driving, picked up every bump in the road. now my question is, why would it be clanking and banging when turning, is it cause of the UC front end or cause of the steering rack or is it to do with the suspension? its kinda hard to describe the bang i hear its like something popping out of place sorta...
any info on this would be greatful.
cheers,
J.
just wondering if i could tap into someones knowledge bank for a sec...
my LH torana has a UC front end in it, was like that when i bough it. now while everything is fine and nothing has fallen off since ive owned it there it alot of banging going on when turning... its a v8 and has pedders red riders in it.. originally there were heavy duty lowered springs but it was stiff as and felt like there was no suspension whilst driving, picked up every bump in the road. now my question is, why would it be clanking and banging when turning, is it cause of the UC front end or cause of the steering rack or is it to do with the suspension? its kinda hard to describe the bang i hear its like something popping out of place sorta...
any info on this would be greatful.
cheers,
J.
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
