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286 Crane Cam Performance in 308

Started by _TORANR AMORE_ , Mar 27 2006 09:07 AM

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25 replies to this topic

#1 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 09:07 AM

Hey guys, I need some feedback on this one.
I have bought a crane cam that is similar to the crane 286 cam, except it's a cheaper version, it's a blue racer. To match the cam, I will be using a 3000 (or 3500) stall converter and 3.45 gears. the cam is going into a 308 (with compression that will be somewhere btw 9 to 10:1 hopefully)

I was at the VTC drive-in night where a couple of guys were saying that the 286 cam is too big and doesn't work well for racing. one guy said that if I used a 286 cam I would have to use a 5000 stall converter because I'll never be-able to "get it off the line" and it will just bog down with anything less than a big stall converter.
How's that? I don't get it. the 286 starts making big power at 5000 RPM and goes out to 6200. I'd be changing gears real quick! :blink:

This is a link to the crane 286 cam on the cranecams website:
http://www.cranecams...fo/hold6987.htm
Series/Grind # is H286
Basic RPM is 2400 to 6200 where, quoted from their website "The camshaft's basic RPM is the RPM range within which the engine will produce its best power."

Has anyone got some examples of power curves/charts? Doesn't it start to raise and curve at about 3000 RPM?

This is the similar cam that I bought that I've been told is equivalent to the 286:

http://www.cranecams...denblue6987.htm
Grind # is CD224-24

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#2 _MAWLER_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:40 PM

Tell 'im he's dreamin. Mate, I'm no expert and have never used a 286 myself personally so perhaps you can disregard all the stuff I'm about to say, but I was planning to use a 286 in my car and was told nothing but good stuff about it. It is basically the standard cam of choice for a 12/13 sec 308 and is used by heaps of ppl. As for it being as big to need a 5000rpm stall, not a chance, the 3000-3500 will be good. Set up the motor with a 286, good heads, the sort of compression you are talking about, performer manifold and 650 or so holley with your 3500 stallie and in my opinion (as we have already said, not worth much) you'll be more than happy.

Peace,

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#3 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:31 PM

... I was planning to use a 286 in my car and was told nothing but good stuff about it. It is basically the standard cam of choice for a 12/13 sec 308 and is used by heaps of ppl ...

Yeah, same here. I've never used one either, but I've always been told that it is part of a known good combination for 300HP or so with the L34 or similar heads (bigger valves and mildly ported and polished), my eddelbrock performer manifold, Genie tri-Y extractors, 750 sec vac Holley etc etc. But I'm always open to listen to other peoples opinions, information and experiences etc, so what these guys said, although 5000stall sounded hugely excessive, it caused me to ponder what the power curve result looked like for a typical 308 with a 286 cam. I'm still trying to find an example on the net with no prevail.

Has anyone got a Dyno result sheet, who has used this cam or similar? I know all engines and combos are different but I would like to see how the Power steps up with RPM with some kinda example.

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#4 _TORANASS_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 02:19 PM

5000rpm stall converta for a 286 grind.. HAHAHHAHAHA his a Gimp...Rick next time you see these characters ask them what size cam is in there car and if they have ever used a 286 or bigger cam in there own car..

3000 to 3500 is a top choice in converta i reckon..3.45 or maybe even 3.7 gears will be ideal..

John

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#5 _[BOTTLEDUP]_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:07 PM

3000 stall 3.7 gears... That'd be ideal. I'd also be fitting a 1" open spacer between the carb and the manifold (preferably a bakelite or phenolic spacer) which will improve the top end power.

The knuckle draggers u were talking to most likely were thinking of a 288 solid. They don't make a great deal of grunt below about 4500 rpm.

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#6 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:20 PM

Yeah,.. I already got a 2inch aluminium spacer for it. Using it on the old combo in the TORRY and it makes a fair difference in top end performance. That's why the air filter pokes out the bonnett.

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#7 gtrboyy

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:35 PM

Sounds like they were talking about a 288 solid & not the 286 which is what most people seem to recommend.

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#8 _J&S Racing_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:42 PM

I haven't got any power curve chart for you but i have got the 286 cam with L34 heads bigger valves, port & pollish etc etc, i was told by TCE that a would need to use a 3500 stally with 3.5-3.9 ratio. 5000 stally is just way to much.

My engine builder recomended a performer manifold with a 750B/P he also so mentioned that if i wanted to stick with a manual gearbox i would have to be prepared to replace the clutch often (not sure how often) he did say it would be easier and cheaper to go auto. I still haven't done the fuel side of things or re-graphed the dizzy yet & i'm still running the 3.0 LSD, the idle is rough but not to rough and it pulls well from 2400rpm until it runs out of fuel about 5000rpm, i really need to finish it off.

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#9 _moot_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 04:35 PM

this is one with a stock motor that has done over 300000 km. its in top gear (glide) i had a shit convertor but with a glide you'll need 4000rpm just to get it off the line but with a 3 speed box 3000 will be nice but 3500 will be nicer.

it made 192 with a edelbrock performer and the 216 with a redline maxitork single plane with no other differences. it also had more torque and power was 500rpm lower :tease:

and this graph is the exact same day and spec with gas. :spoton:

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#10 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 04:58 PM

COOOOOL

, say where abouts is 3000RPM on that graph?

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#11 _moot_

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 05:00 PM

it probably starts at about 3500rpm but you can see where it should be.

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#12 Struggler

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 05:05 PM

I have built at least a dozen 308's with Crane 286 Hyd cams and I have to agree with most of what has been said above. Some of these motors even had stock convertors behind them, which I couldn't recommend.

The cam you have purchased is 6 degrees @ 050 off the pace of the 286 so is actually a bit smaller.

Personally I would have got the 286, I have used the CD224, but only once.....

I also have my own thoughts on spacers and Edelbrock Performers for 308 that I have discussed on this forum before.

Edited by Struggler, 27 March 2006 - 05:05 PM.

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#13 _TORANR AMORE_

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 12:26 PM

The part that I don't get is that cranecams say that the basic RPM for the 286 is 2400-6200+ and the basic RPM for the blue racer CD224-24 is 2200-5400 but this cam is only a bit smaller than the 286, yet the RPM range has a big difference. Why?

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#14 _1QUICK LJ_

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 03:04 PM

6 degrees at 050 makes a fair bit of difference, but keep in mind this is only the basic range it depends on the rest of your combo,heads,manifold,exhaust etc. if youve got good breathing gear on the engine it should go hard to 5800-6000.

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#15 _[BOTTLEDUP]_

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 05:37 PM

What are the actual valve timing events? Is the intake centreline the same? Lobe centre angle? Intake closing point? All these contribute to giving the camshaft its characteristics.

I'm like struggler, used a CD cam once, and once only.

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#16 _TORANASS_

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 07:20 PM

,Mar 28 2006, 06:37 PM] I'm like struggler, used a CD cam once, and once only.

Is that cos the CD cam wasnt good, or other reasons..If its not gona do the job Id say for Rick to get a 286 and try sellin the CD cam..

John

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#17 Struggler

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 07:50 PM

Camshaft technology has come a long way in the 25 years since Crane designed the CD224.

The difference in price between it and the CCH286 will be the cheapest 30HP your $$$ can buy.

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#18 _Boostd_

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:16 PM

Heres a dyno sheet of that cam in a 253 with medium size valves,.060" over bore 9.0:1 comp, roller rockers, brock manifold. it pulls hard from 3500rpm onwards.
Posted Image

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#19 hatchssv8

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:06 PM

just my two cents worth

I will be using a CD crane cam in the 308 I am building,
Basically inj 308 stroked to 3.48 (~353 ci ), CD228-88, tickled heads, spaced t/b, pace headers.....5 speed, and 3.45s out back

It is not THE 286...........so I would be most interested what pple have to say

The cam was recommended by someone with sound knowledge and proven results as an engine builder.

Sorry if this is side tracking.

Max

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#20 _dannylxss_

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 07:02 PM

i have a crane 286 big heads standard rockers elederbrock manifold modifyied quaddie 308 with 10.5 comp a trimatic 3500 tce stall and had a 9" 3.90 lsd in my old vb commodore it ran 12.90 at 107mph on street tyres now it going in to a lc 2 door with tubs (im a bit worried how fast it i'll be) so 286 is proven power!!!! :spoton:

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#21 _[BOTTLEDUP]_

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 12:32 PM

,Mar 28 2006, 06:37 PM] I'm like struggler, used a CD cam once, and once only.
Is that cos the CD cam wasnt good, or other reasons..If its not gona do the job Id say for Rick to get a 286 and try sellin the CD cam..

John

Basically because they are an old technology design, dating back to the 60's and 70s.

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#22 _JNR_ATE_

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 01:38 AM

I got a 296 clive cams in my 308 and i aint sure about it. Its power rev range is 2500-6500 as per clive's spec sheet. I run a 680 quaddy, L34 heads and flat tops, feels like i couldnt pull the skin off rice pudding below 1800Rpm, but get anywhere near 2500and she sits u in the seat.

Something doesnt feel right, 2500 stall, 3.55 diff and good heads and it very sluggish down low. Any ideas.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

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#23 _Lostit_

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 06:27 AM

Ive had a fair bit of experience with the cc286 anti hydraulic camshaft.

And the former MickLX on this forum can or will be able to testify because he brought my old 308 with that camshaft in it.

My old motor never was dyno run.. but was/is tuff as nails on the road i can tell you that.

The specs of the motor were
10.5 to 1 comp, forged flat tops, red cast heads flowed to 440hp, Ice ignition electronic.

On the street with 3.36, trimatic and 2200 convertor traction was a problem off the line .The geniune Crane cam rev range is between 1800-5900.
On the strip i pulled with a quadajet 13.6 crossing the line in 2nd gear at 6000rpm, without using the convertor off the line since street tyres lack of traction so all being correct a high 12 would easily be on the cards .
Then i put a 750 DP on it and it felt like someone put a higher diff ratio.. it loved the juice and felt so much stronger but i never got to race it again.

Just so you know a 286 antiu hydraulic is a good choice for the street and not overly big.. in a lighter bodied torana.. it would be awesome
\

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#24 micklx

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 08:26 AM

Yes, love the Crane 286, good strong power to 6000 rpm, pulls hard through the midrange,
Thanks for the engine Denis, I'll send you a pm soon to let you know how its going.

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#25 _[BOTTLEDUP]_

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:40 AM

I got a 296 clive cams in my 308 and i aint sure about it. Its power rev range is 2500-6500 as per clive's spec sheet. I run a 680 quaddy, L34 heads and flat tops, feels like i couldnt pull the skin off rice pudding below 1800Rpm, but get anywhere near 2500and she sits u in the seat.

Something doesnt feel right, 2500 stall, 3.55 diff and good heads and it very sluggish down low. Any ideas.

Cheers
JNR_ATE

Well if its a 2500 stall how would you expect it to go below 2500? The converter won't be locked up until then, and thats what makes it take off from 2500...