265 replies to this topic

[xu2308]

Skapinad
When i spoke to Harry on the Phone about the V8 LJ's,he had great recall on the Subject,maybe cause it is his passion,and some people memorys are better than others,Like the Old Saying if you dont use it you Loose it.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

G/Day Al
Yes, According to Harry Firth, Homologation 1/1V (Detroit Locker) was all ways intended to be used in conjunction with the V8 LJ until the V8 LJ was offically cancelled on Friday the 30th June 1972. Up to and including Friday the 30th of June Holden had built a total of 592 LJ XU-1,s according to the VIN Bible. In the following month of July 1972 Holden only built a total of 8 LJ XU-1,s, 1 at the Brisbane plant and 7 at its Adelaide plant. This brought the total of LJ XU-1,s built up to 600 thus completing homologation 1/1V. With the cancellation of the V8 LJ Holden were then forced to go back to its six cylinder LJ XU-1. In August 1972 a further 3 homologations took place which required a further minimum of 700 LJ XU-1,s be built.

2/2V Sprintmasters (10-8-1972) 200 cars required
4/4V Track, Sprintmasters (10-8-1972) 200 cars required
5/5V Cam XJ, Lightened Flywheel 19lbs, Springs & 3.55 diff ratio (29-8-1972) 300 cars required

If the V8 LJ had went ahead then im sure these cars would have been known as the "Bathurst" cars. However due to the cancellation of the V8 LJ and Holden having to revert back to its six cylinder LJ XU-1 would,nt this then make the 200 1/1V cars the first of the "Bathurst" Specials. After all these cars were intended to be used in conjunction with the V8 LJ which would have been ready for the Manufacturers Championship which included Bathurst (Round 3).

[xu2308]

G/Day Al
Yes, According to Harry Firth, Homologation 1/1V (Detroit Locker) was all ways intended to be used in conjunction with the V8 LJ until the V8 LJ was offically cancelled on Friday the 30th June 1972. Up to and including Friday the 30th of June Holden had built a total of 592 LJ XU-1,s according to the VIN Bible. In the following month of July 1972 Holden only built a total of 8 LJ XU-1,s, 1 at the Brisbane plant and 7 at its Adelaide plant. This brought the total of LJ XU-1,s built up to 600 thus completing homologation 1/1V. With the cancellation of the V8 LJ Holden were then forced to go back to its six cylinder LJ XU-1. In August 1972 a further 3 homologations took place which required a further minimum of 700 LJ XU-1,s be built.

2/2V Sprintmasters (10-8-1972) 200 cars required
4/4V Track, Sprintmasters (10-8-1972) 200 cars required
5/5V Cam XJ, Lightened Flywheel 19lbs, Springs & 3.55 diff ratio (29-8-1972) 300 cars required

If the V8 LJ had went ahead then im sure these cars would have been known as the "Bathurst" cars. However due to the cancellation of the V8 LJ and Holden having to revert back to its six cylinder LJ XU-1 would,nt this then make the 200 1/1V cars the first of the "Bathurst" Specials. After all these cars were intended to be used in conjunction with the V8 LJ which would have been ready for the Manufacturers Championship which included Bathurst (Round 3).

Hi Fly
When i spoke to Harry Firth on the phone about the V8 LJ's,he told me that the 200 LJ XU-1's with the Sprintmasters were the 1972 Bathurst Cars,so what you say is correct.
And they were going to be the 200 V8 LJ XU-1's,as thats why they had the Sprintmasters on them,so if you own a Aug-Sept/1972 LJ XU-1 with Factory fitted Sprintmasters not optional ordered ones,you have a Special 1972 LJ XU-1.
And Harry says this on the Chevron HDT DVD,that they had 200 LJ XU-1's ready and 200 pairs of things,and when the V8 XU-1 got canned they put the wheels(Sprintmasters)on them 200 cars.
So Fly they are the 200 Bathurst cars,watch the Chevron HDT DVD and Harry says about them,so the V8 LJ cars were built,but Less V8,thats why back in the day,it was rumoured that Holden Lost $200,000 on the project cause the stuff was ready to go and all the parts etc,Get Sept 1990 issue of Street Machine Magazine,it says in there about the $200,000 loss rumours.

[xu2308]

73Bath
Well Harry says they were ready the 200 Cars and the Stuff,and the 200 Pairs of Sprintmasters and it was Widely reported at the time that Holden lost around $200,000 on the project,that is alot of money in 1972.
Holden had drawn up the Official Engineering Parts list and Prepared its production release,hence the 200 Cars,thats why the $200,000 Loss,My Guess maybe the 200 Cars were fitted with the V8's and had to be pulled out and refitted with 6Cyl's and thats why some Later on Dates on 8/72 I.D Plated LJ Bathurst XU-1's. ???????????????????? Due to this,this is Speculation from me,But who knows.
But the $200,000 Loss points to this might beening True

[xu2308]

hi ,i thought only 3 cars were fitted up and tested with the 308,apparantly had twin filler necks to tank,one on each quarter,but that is only what i was lead to beleive a long time ago,but as for the 200 sets of self locating sprintmasters,these are for real and when i sold mt 8th month 72 car i kept the wheels and spacer plates and fitted to my 73 bath special,i wonder about the diffs detroit lockers aren,t very user friendly for the faint hearted and with the 308 wholy shit they would have been a handfull,wonder if all were to be fitted with them????????

Yes the 200 Self Locating Sprintmasters on them 200 Cars are the V8 LJ XU-1's,Harry says they are on the chevron DVD and he told me that in our Phone Call on the V8 LJ's we had.
But the Cars left less V8's,Due to program scrapped,only one car had the twin fillers and big tank that was the Lone O Ranger V8 LJ(GMH Engineering Car)Joe Felice Car,as Tank had not been decided on at cancellation.
We will never know if the 200 Cars had the V8's in them and taking back out,But the V8 Program was stopped on the 30/June/1972 Going off the Holden letter they issued out about the V8 LJ XU-1's.
So the 200 Sprinmaster Cars must be really June Cars and put aside and not Date Stamped to August-Sept 1972 ?????????? then sold,they have to be for what harry is saying on the Chevron DVD.

[xu2308]

Im sure the 200 Pairs of Self Locating Sprintmasters are Date Stamped 6/1972
Hence the 200 Cars been 6/1972 Cars but put aside and then sold as Aug-Sept 1972 Cars

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

20-6-1972

With the first batch of self locating sprintmasters being cast in late June this would suggest that production of the V8 LJ (If went ahead) would of been around July/August.
In the month of July Holden only completed 8 LJ XU-1,s. 1 at its Brisbane plant and 7 at its Adelaide plant.

[xu2308]

20-6-1972

With the first batch of self locating sprintmasters being cast in late June this would suggest that production of the V8 LJ (If went ahead) would of been around July/August.
In the month of July Holden only completed 8 LJ XU-1,s. 1 at its Brisbane plant and 7 at its Adelaide plant.

Hi fly
The Bathurst Race was on the 1/10/1972
GMH Stopped the V8 LJ XU-1 on the 30/June/1972
So they had 4-Months to stop any production if there was any on the go with them 200-Cars,yet there was widely rumours reported at the time
that GMH Loss $200,000 u would think for that amount of money wasted,they had to been more ahead that we know.
Its Just more things we dont know Fly.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

G/Day Allan
The first round of the Manufacturers Championship took place at Adelaide Raceway on the 27-8-1972. Traditionally the second round took place at Sandown (The lead up to Bathurst) in September. Bathurst being the third round. Im sure they would have liked the V8 LJ for round 1 of the Manufacturers Championship which was held on the 27-8-1972. This would have given them 2 rounds to iron out any bugs before Bathurst. Interestingly enough both Brock and Bond blew there engines at Sandown (Round 2). By Bathurst (Round 3) they had fixed there problems. Brock then went on to win round 3 (Bathurst).

Edited by FLY_AGAIN_XU-1, 10 September 2009 - 12:12 AM.

[FLY_AGAIN_XU-1]

From August 1972 till the end of December 1972 Holden exported a staggering 95 LJ XU-1,s (According to the VIN Bible) and may have been one way Holden recouped some of its losses from the cancelled V8 LJ Programme. Interestingly enough they only exported 2 LJ XU-1,s in 1973 (According to the VIN Bible).

[xu2308]

Way too much guessing as to real facts on this thread...
If you think Alan they built 200 XU1 V8s than pulled the engines out of them and retro fitted the 6 back in you really have no idea of production lines of the time.
The wheels are easy...they had to order at least several months in advance..Globe was good..but only had so many molds even on 2 shifts a week they would struggle to get them finished in 2 months or longer.
The thing with all of this is..sorry to be blunt guys..but you are all guessing...no one here has any real knowledge of the era or time..it's all summation from books and my best mates mother's uncle Ernie from Ballarat..
Joe Felice knows all the answers and as Sagman says..he chooses to be silent and read all the guesswork/summations you all spew forward here on what really happened...
I wait with baited breath for Joe's biography that is being done...then we can finally kill this speculation.
And to be honest..I will take Joe's version over Good Old Harry at 92yo any day...ask yourself..who was the real money man/manager of HDT?..go re-read those books to find out who REALLY ran the race team behind the scenes..
R

Hi Rory
The media of the day widely reported Holden $200,000 Loss on the V8 LJ Project,and remember $200,000 in 1972 was a hell of alot of money in 1972,How they Loose that much.
Like i said there alot we dont know,But i Hope Joe Felice new Book tells these things,but i wont hold my breath all things will be told,as there some things i have discovered of late,that has not be told,and its not the Banjo Detroit Lockers or the Sprintmasters,or the 200-Sprinty LJ XU-1's
I will Ring Joe,and have a Chat to the great Man about it,Hopefully it will be in his new Book.

[xu2308]

found the rear fined brakes in shed yesterday,looks as if someone went mad drilling holes etc
trying to get a picture attached see what happens.

Thats the Same Cooling Fins on the SMP LJ XU-1 V8 that came to Tassy in 1974,and if you watch the Chevron DVD,XU1 When Ya Hot Ya Hot the 1973 HDT LJ XU-1 has them Cooling Fins on as well.

[A9X]

are you suggesting that is a factory setup?

[A9X]

sorry mate, my error.

Good luck with chasing more info.