Also... What are logs?
Edited by splosh123, 11 November 2009 - 09:05 PM.
Twin Turbo 253
Started by
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, Nov 09 2009 07:43 PM
76 replies to this topic
#26
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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:04 PM
Yep, everything is ideas at the moment. Which is good because ideas means I haven't bought anything yet lol. So I can plan this out properly. Just getting it all together on what I should and shouldn't do. So keep the ideas flowing, and examples of it being done, or similar being done.
Also... What are logs?
Also... What are logs?
#27
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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:26 PM
Log manifolds are like anything doesn't look like extractors really. They are like an exhaust version of a plenum inlet manifold. They are generally better for spooling up a turbo quickly, they don't flow that well and they don't "extract" because there are no nice transitions between stages, as there really aren't any.
Small and compact, not good for all out massive HP but fine for what you're doing.
I would consider standard headers log manifolds, along with a lot of other simple aftermarket/custom setups
Small and compact, not good for all out massive HP but fine for what you're doing.
I would consider standard headers log manifolds, along with a lot of other simple aftermarket/custom setups
Edited by Heath, 11 November 2009 - 09:31 PM.
#28
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Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:34 PM
Log style exhaust manifold. Similar in design as a stock cast manifold only made of steam pipe welded together. Google it you should get examples. You can buyYep, everything is ideas at the moment. Which is good because ideas means I haven't bought anything yet lol. So I can plan this out properly. Just getting it all together on what I should and shouldn't do. So keep the ideas flowing, and examples of it being done, or similar being done.
Also... What are logs?
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jgycustoms.com/ka24det/images/KA24ETurboManifold%24389T2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jgycustoms.com/ka24det/exhaustmanifold.htm&usg=__np_gRJ4Bg_hOiWDdRP25cIGg05Q=&h=300&w=400&sz=28&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=y7rw8KBoQCraCM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlog%2Bstyle%2Bmanifold%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/2.7T_header_comparison.pdf
These are the ones i made for my twin turbo Nissan V8 in my LJ
#29
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Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:57 AM
JMO but a single is easier to plumb.
A single Series 5 RX7 turbo with a TO4 wheel will be perfect for a 253 and make about 550HP and more torque than any tyre will stand.
2x RX7 turbos are lazy on a 350 SBC.
A 308 would be OK with 2x RB25 turbos which you could pick up cheap on eBay etc.
Again its just my opinion but keep it simple and it will work.
A single Series 5 RX7 turbo with a TO4 wheel will be perfect for a 253 and make about 550HP and more torque than any tyre will stand.
2x RX7 turbos are lazy on a 350 SBC.
A 308 would be OK with 2x RB25 turbos which you could pick up cheap on eBay etc.
Again its just my opinion but keep it simple and it will work.
#30
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Posted 12 November 2009 - 09:10 AM
Looking at Struggler's pics again, I agree. I think I would do it much the same way
#31
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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:13 AM
Yeah it would be a great startLooking at Struggler's pics again, I agree. I think I would do it much the same way
Maybe develop it from there over time
#32
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Posted 14 November 2009 - 11:55 AM
Just wondering would a 5lt turbo be legal in a UC?
#33
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Posted 16 November 2009 - 09:02 PM
I think the first thing you want to work out is how much power you would like to make. Things can all be worked out from there.
Build the engine from the start to take a turbo, meaning compression ratio, camshaft selection and even the combustion chamber modified to minimise the chance of detonation.
A few things will have a hand in how much lag the turbo has, Compression ratio, turbo size,turbine housing size, sizing of the charge pipes, intercooler sizing, pleneum volume on injected cars, the list is endless.
Have a good read of the maximum boost book by Corky Bell. He goes into the theory of sizing the turbos as well as manifold designs, and basically the whole system start t finish.
If you want any help to work it out just PM me, I will try and help you with regards to the turbo sizing. If you give me some more info I may be able to help you work out suitable new or second hand turbos.
Build the engine from the start to take a turbo, meaning compression ratio, camshaft selection and even the combustion chamber modified to minimise the chance of detonation.
A few things will have a hand in how much lag the turbo has, Compression ratio, turbo size,turbine housing size, sizing of the charge pipes, intercooler sizing, pleneum volume on injected cars, the list is endless.
Have a good read of the maximum boost book by Corky Bell. He goes into the theory of sizing the turbos as well as manifold designs, and basically the whole system start t finish.
If you want any help to work it out just PM me, I will try and help you with regards to the turbo sizing. If you give me some more info I may be able to help you work out suitable new or second hand turbos.
#34
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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:05 PM
Just digging up an old thread,
In my wonderful mind of minds, and with limited dollars due to being stuck in my bullshit job for the moment, I had a thought the other day regarding the ute (yes yes yes, its not on the road yet, but im thinking for the future! lol)
twin 1JZTE turbos (CT12As) with reversed standard exhaust manifolds, no intercooler, on a low PSI and probably running gas and running blow through (obviously) on something like a GRA carby.
Minus the gas gear, Im thinking it would be a pretty cheap way to go (somewhere around 1k really)
The motor in the ute is a refurbed STD 253, with basically zero kms on it.
Anyone have any thoughts on it?
Im obviously looking for something internally gated (dont want the hassle and cost of external wastegates and piping)
Long term plans are LS1 into the ute, but I figure this would be a bit of a learning curve (never really played with turbos) and would be a bit of fun too.
Anyone care to design (just ideas) a twin turbo 253 setup, running gas, (which turbos etc) for the ute? (lots of room really)
In my wonderful mind of minds, and with limited dollars due to being stuck in my bullshit job for the moment, I had a thought the other day regarding the ute (yes yes yes, its not on the road yet, but im thinking for the future! lol)
twin 1JZTE turbos (CT12As) with reversed standard exhaust manifolds, no intercooler, on a low PSI and probably running gas and running blow through (obviously) on something like a GRA carby.
Minus the gas gear, Im thinking it would be a pretty cheap way to go (somewhere around 1k really)
The motor in the ute is a refurbed STD 253, with basically zero kms on it.
Anyone have any thoughts on it?
Im obviously looking for something internally gated (dont want the hassle and cost of external wastegates and piping)
Long term plans are LS1 into the ute, but I figure this would be a bit of a learning curve (never really played with turbos) and would be a bit of fun too.
Anyone care to design (just ideas) a twin turbo 253 setup, running gas, (which turbos etc) for the ute? (lots of room really)
#35
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Posted 10 May 2010 - 07:10 PM
Be careful using CT12A turbos off a Supra or the Skyline turbos, They are rather expensive to repair.
Maybe a pair of small T25s or T28s from a SR20 or something, Nice and compact, internally wastegated to keep plumbing simple. Depends on your power goal really.
Maybe a pair of small T25s or T28s from a SR20 or something, Nice and compact, internally wastegated to keep plumbing simple. Depends on your power goal really.
#36
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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:26 AM
Ive been looking into the TDO4L from the WRXs as there are a shipload of them around and seem to go for about $150-$200 each
Either that or the TF035 from the forresters which are even cheaper (like 50-100)
the TD04L would probably be better as they reckon TF035s run out of puff on the forresters at about 5000rpm, although with one per bank it might be a good match for the 253 as it probably wont see more then 5500 anyway
Either that or the TF035 from the forresters which are even cheaper (like 50-100)
the TD04L would probably be better as they reckon TF035s run out of puff on the forresters at about 5000rpm, although with one per bank it might be a good match for the 253 as it probably wont see more then 5500 anyway
#37
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 05:43 PM
Okay, so i'm back.
I've got myself a job at an engine reconditioning place, so can get engine parts for trade price, and a good wealthful of information from people working there and my boss has a few places to send turbo's off to get reco'd. Currently on the hunt for a 308 that I can slowly rebuild (over a year or so, seeing as though i'm on apprentice wages). Pretty much I have 2 years to build this, as this is when i'll be on my open license.
My goal:
500 HP, Fuel injected turbo 308. I think maybe going with a single turbo for now will be just fine, as the plumbing, heat and boost might be a bit too much, the more turbo = the more things that can go wrong. Also looking for a driveable street beast, lumpy cam, but not so lumpy that i'm stalling at the lights. I want to try keep it as legal and clean as I can.
I also need to start thinking about the driveline and brakes, as with that much power I don't think it will hold up, i'm looking at a manual auto, 9inch diff and bigger brakes (not too sure yet).
Also need to get the apperance in line, seeing as though she's not looking too healthy.
Need some direction too! As i don't know where to start, i've sold most of my 202 performance gear already, so theres no going back. Looking as some of my previous posts, i think i'm a bit more technically minded now, so this should be an awesome experience.
Cheers
Josh
I've got myself a job at an engine reconditioning place, so can get engine parts for trade price, and a good wealthful of information from people working there and my boss has a few places to send turbo's off to get reco'd. Currently on the hunt for a 308 that I can slowly rebuild (over a year or so, seeing as though i'm on apprentice wages). Pretty much I have 2 years to build this, as this is when i'll be on my open license.
My goal:
500 HP, Fuel injected turbo 308. I think maybe going with a single turbo for now will be just fine, as the plumbing, heat and boost might be a bit too much, the more turbo = the more things that can go wrong. Also looking for a driveable street beast, lumpy cam, but not so lumpy that i'm stalling at the lights. I want to try keep it as legal and clean as I can.
I also need to start thinking about the driveline and brakes, as with that much power I don't think it will hold up, i'm looking at a manual auto, 9inch diff and bigger brakes (not too sure yet).
Also need to get the apperance in line, seeing as though she's not looking too healthy.
Need some direction too! As i don't know where to start, i've sold most of my 202 performance gear already, so theres no going back. Looking as some of my previous posts, i think i'm a bit more technically minded now, so this should be an awesome experience.
Cheers
Josh
#38
dattoman
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 06:46 PM
Big cams and turbos don't go together
Not in old Holden V8's anyway
Maybe do some reading on lift,boost and duration
Yes you need bigger brakes.. .thats a given
And a better diff... 9" isn't essential though
Not in old Holden V8's anyway
Maybe do some reading on lift,boost and duration
Yes you need bigger brakes.. .thats a given
And a better diff... 9" isn't essential though
#39
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:03 PM
One turbo or Two. There is little more that can go wrong.
One good turbo is more expensive than 2 ebay turbo's.
Be sure this is the way you are able to go as appose to this is the way you wish you could go.
Turbos are a fair comitment - But can be easy to achieve if on a plan. 2 cheep chinese turbos (keep boost low 7-12psi), make some simple manifolds from steam pipe bends (from Blackwoods), lower comp, stronger rod bolts, modify sump for turbo drains - use what you already have.
Stick with it - It will be worth the hassel
This is a pic of mine in the build...
IMAGE233.JPG 57.63K
52 downloads
IMAGE235.JPG 58.54K
48 downloads
One good turbo is more expensive than 2 ebay turbo's.
Be sure this is the way you are able to go as appose to this is the way you wish you could go.
Turbos are a fair comitment - But can be easy to achieve if on a plan. 2 cheep chinese turbos (keep boost low 7-12psi), make some simple manifolds from steam pipe bends (from Blackwoods), lower comp, stronger rod bolts, modify sump for turbo drains - use what you already have.
Stick with it - It will be worth the hassel
This is a pic of mine in the build...
IMAGE233.JPG 57.63K
52 downloads
IMAGE235.JPG 58.54K
48 downloads
#40
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 05:19 PM
Okay,
So lets start with question number one,
Carby or Injection?
I see a lot of people are going with carburetors on their turbo setups, is there a reason for this? Whats the price difference for the setup? And which is easier to set up for gas?
Cheers
Josh
PS. If anyone has some good links to any of this sort of information that would be much appreciated so I can cram my head with some knowledge.
So lets start with question number one,
Carby or Injection?
I see a lot of people are going with carburetors on their turbo setups, is there a reason for this? Whats the price difference for the setup? And which is easier to set up for gas?
Cheers
Josh
PS. If anyone has some good links to any of this sort of information that would be much appreciated so I can cram my head with some knowledge.
#41
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:28 PM
Drag Car = Carby, Street Car = EFI IMO anyway, Carby is fine for drags cos you can tune it perfectly for WOT and not have to worry about the low end and drivability
#43
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:52 PM
Carby or Injection?
:Cost can be much the same so it can come down to preference. Carb blow thru is cheaper if you have a carb already for example.
Carb requires - Carb that is boost referenced & capable of preasurisation, carb Hat , Boost pressure reg, surge tank, lift pump, high pressure fuel pump, larger fuel feed line & return line
EFI: Intake or injectors bosses in manifold, throttle body fuel rails, injectors, boost pressure reg, computer(ECU), larger feed line & Fuel return line , eng sensors, Distributor with CKP sensor, wiring harness
Carb & EFI are both time consuming to tune & expensive if you are not capable.
Carb will not achieve the emision requirments if the vehicle is 27A,B,C but will if it is 26 or 27
EFI main advantage is Ignition control and EFI can adjusts its self to varying conditions & eng temp. Carb is fixed. Carbs are usually adjusted when hot and there fore a rich when cold. A carb can also have a Ign boost retard box is sought. Also Electronic boost control; ECU can do But again a additional controller can be sought for a carb setup.
Carb usually has bonnet clearance issues & EFI can usually be kept under bonnet. Numerous Pros & Cons.
GAS????? Do you mean LPG or NO2
LPG Can be done BUT WHY ??? Dont say fuel economy...
As for info a good book was mentioned earlier in thread. Lots of research required for a project such as this.
Leep with it...
:Cost can be much the same so it can come down to preference. Carb blow thru is cheaper if you have a carb already for example.
Carb requires - Carb that is boost referenced & capable of preasurisation, carb Hat , Boost pressure reg, surge tank, lift pump, high pressure fuel pump, larger fuel feed line & return line
EFI: Intake or injectors bosses in manifold, throttle body fuel rails, injectors, boost pressure reg, computer(ECU), larger feed line & Fuel return line , eng sensors, Distributor with CKP sensor, wiring harness
Carb & EFI are both time consuming to tune & expensive if you are not capable.
Carb will not achieve the emision requirments if the vehicle is 27A,B,C but will if it is 26 or 27
EFI main advantage is Ignition control and EFI can adjusts its self to varying conditions & eng temp. Carb is fixed. Carbs are usually adjusted when hot and there fore a rich when cold. A carb can also have a Ign boost retard box is sought. Also Electronic boost control; ECU can do But again a additional controller can be sought for a carb setup.
Carb usually has bonnet clearance issues & EFI can usually be kept under bonnet. Numerous Pros & Cons.
GAS????? Do you mean LPG or NO2
LPG Can be done BUT WHY ??? Dont say fuel economy...
As for info a good book was mentioned earlier in thread. Lots of research required for a project such as this.
Leep with it...
#44
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:32 PM
Okay,
So lets start with question number one,
I think that question number one should be "Do you care if the car can not be registered?"
The largest forced induction engine allowed in an LX Torana in WA is 3612 cc. You will probably find that QLD has similar rules.
#45
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:42 PM
I was waiting for someone to say that as i didnt want to break the news to him....
Cheers.
Cheers.
#46
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 04:45 PM
Ouch, just plain ouch. So not even a 253... How are people driving around in their supercharged v8s then?
*goes back to lab to plan out new scheme*
*goes back to lab to plan out new scheme*
#47
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:23 PM
Most custom car builders don't worry about the legalities of the modifications.
#48
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:55 PM
I would prefer to keep it completely legal.
Maybe a 355 stroker or rb30 turbo might be the go...
Maybe a 355 stroker or rb30 turbo might be the go...
#49
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 06:06 PM
RB30 for the win! block from a VL, bit of modifying etc etc etc and then twin turbo it!! linked with a r33.. unstoppable and fun!
#50
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 06:47 PM
Also I think with the RB30, it is pretty much made to handle boost from stock, so it's not like I have to do too much internal work, although I will be reconditioning the motor no matter what motor I pick. Pretty much want anything apart from the 202...
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