if you read the rules,you are allowed to add forced induction to the factory engine.
so in a lh-lx you CAN have a turbo 308 passed.(as its not an 'engine conversion')
Twin Turbo 253
Started by
_splosh123_
, Nov 09 2009 07:43 PM
76 replies to this topic
#52
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:38 PM
if you read the rules,you are allowed to add forced induction to the factory engine.
so in a lh-lx you CAN have a turbo 308 passed.(as its not an 'engine conversion')
Shame the UC's didn't come out with V8s then.
#53
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:46 PM
As for rules that depends what state you live in.
Some States use the light vehicle code known as the 'Road Users Management Act - Code of practice'
Other states have there own rules and use the above act as a Guide only.
The sooner we have a reasonable national code the better - but thats another topic.
The Modification code required is LA3 = Turbo charging or super charging instalation.
In order to get that mod you either know someone that will cheet the system or the vehicle is built from the start to comply.
For My vehicle (Being certified in VIC) before i even started i contacted a VASS aprover - (Approval Certificated for modifyied, imported & individually constructed vehicle) - Link can be found from State transport web site's.
This process is advised from the start if there is any modification that requires approval.
It does not matter what engine, diff, conversion is being done.
RB30 can make heeps of power so can a 2JZ but you will end up with a Holden with a Jap motor.
The approval process is painfull.....
Some States use the light vehicle code known as the 'Road Users Management Act - Code of practice'
Other states have there own rules and use the above act as a Guide only.
The sooner we have a reasonable national code the better - but thats another topic.
The Modification code required is LA3 = Turbo charging or super charging instalation.
In order to get that mod you either know someone that will cheet the system or the vehicle is built from the start to comply.
For My vehicle (Being certified in VIC) before i even started i contacted a VASS aprover - (Approval Certificated for modifyied, imported & individually constructed vehicle) - Link can be found from State transport web site's.
This process is advised from the start if there is any modification that requires approval.
It does not matter what engine, diff, conversion is being done.
RB30 can make heeps of power so can a 2JZ but you will end up with a Holden with a Jap motor.
The approval process is painfull.....
#54
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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:56 PM
RB30 can make heeps of power so can a 2JZ but you will end up with a Holden with a Jap motor.
Hehehehe well said. May as well buy a VL.
Cheers.
#55
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Posted 19 May 2010 - 09:30 AM
Carby or Injection?
LPG Can be done BUT WHY ??? Dont say fuel economy...
As for info a good book was mentioned earlier in thread. Lots of research required for a project such as this.
Leep with it...
Im mainly looking at LPG for 3 reasons,
its not as likely to ping its head off or melt a piston running boost with unknown compression (I didnt build the motor so Im only assuming standard comp)
I dont want to run an intercooled setup and and LPG setup is going to run cooler inlet temperatures than a standard, non IC petrol setup
And gas carbies are a shitload easier to get setup (IMO) for blow through (twin GRA carbs or something similar)
Thats my reasoning anyway. There are alot of people making very decent HP figures with LPG, its just that most people have NFI when it comes to running it. (im just lucky enough that my Dad has been playing with it for years, which is handy as Ive barely played with LPG setups)
#56
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Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:43 PM
And if your really smart you will run blow through through the mixers, use a liquid to air intercooler and run the water from the condneser (which is ice cold) through the intercooler thus making an incredibly efficient system capable of sustaining stupid hp figures....
Cheers.
Cheers.
#57
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Posted 19 May 2010 - 10:11 PM
if you read the rules,you are allowed to add forced induction to the factory engine.
so in a lh-lx you CAN have a turbo 308 passed.(as its not an 'engine conversion')
In WA the NCOP allows forced induction on the factory engine if power is not increased by more than 20% over stock using approval code LA1. If power is increased by more than 20% then approval code LA2 is required. LA2 includes the same engine capacity rules as an engine swap.
#58
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Posted 19 May 2010 - 10:21 PM
Carby or Injection?
LPG Can be done BUT WHY ??? Dont say fuel economy...
As for info a good book was mentioned earlier in thread. Lots of research required for a project such as this.
Leep with it...
Im mainly looking at LPG for 3 reasons,
its not as likely to ping its head off or melt a piston running boost with unknown compression (I didnt build the motor so Im only assuming standard comp)
I dont want to run an intercooled setup and and LPG setup is going to run cooler inlet temperatures than a standard, non IC petrol setup
And gas carbies are a shitload easier to get setup (IMO) for blow through (twin GRA carbs or something similar)
Thats my reasoning anyway. There are alot of people making very decent HP figures with LPG, its just that most people have NFI when it comes to running it. (im just lucky enough that my Dad has been playing with it for years, which is handy as Ive barely played with LPG setups)
LPG is not cheep to set up.
It is oftern unsightly as many convertors are required to get enough gas into a High HP application (2-4 convertors, 2 mixers).
Unless you work at a LPG shop or own one few have the resorces to make it happen.
Pinging is oftern down to the fuel mixture, combustion chamber design, precise ignition control in relation to boost. I would think Gas gould melt a piston just as quick as petrol. As for intercooling thats the easy & cheep part - why would you not choose to use it.
Gas with carb is very restrictive so straight gas is the only option. Unless you were to choose something such as a Impco BRC sequent system which is ECU controlled. There is also law and must be accredited to work on & install.
A 253 of unknown compression with 2 turbos may not last long in an attempt to tune a complicated LPG set up.
Im all for GAS as i work in that trade but i have seen few good high performance applications.
#59
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Posted 20 May 2010 - 05:19 PM
Well after reading mumstaxi's build thread, i'm going the rb30 with 25 head, turbo, all that jazz.
Going to sus out all of my suspension, brakes, steering etc tomorrow night and start getting that sorted, as I want to get it right the first time round, instead of messing around with issues down the track.
I will start a proper build thread in the coming weeks.
Going to sus out all of my suspension, brakes, steering etc tomorrow night and start getting that sorted, as I want to get it right the first time round, instead of messing around with issues down the track.
I will start a proper build thread in the coming weeks.
#60
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Posted 27 May 2010 - 10:26 AM
Here are some pics of a turbo 308 I did about 8 years ago. Sorry, no pics of it all together running but this will give you a few clues.
Also the Series 5 RX7 turbo with a TO4 comp wheel inside the standard cover would be perfect for a 253 IMO.
do you think you can get a 3" pipe down between the rocker cover and the chassis rail/firewall?
#61
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Posted 27 May 2010 - 09:16 PM
Here are some pics of a turbo 308 I did about 8 years ago. Sorry, no pics of it all together running but this will give you a few clues.
Also the Series 5 RX7 turbo with a TO4 comp wheel inside the standard cover would be perfect for a 253 IMO.
do you think you can get a 3" pipe down between the rocker cover and the chassis rail/firewall?
I don't think so. With that car I just bored a 4" hole thru the inner guard and ran it to the diff on the outside of the rail.
I reckon you could happily run 3" thru the inner guard and then back under the rail (above the outrigger) to run in the standard location. You could also scallop a bit out of the rail and possibly the firewall and get it out that way. From memory I looked at doing that and decided it was just too hard.
I wouldn't run the pipe along the outside of the rail and under the floor again as it did limit steering.
Hope this helps.
#62
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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:07 PM
Tf035
Well im back on building a ghettotastic tt setup on the 253, not chasing massive power and longevity is of moderate concern.
Ive been looking out for aome tf035s, but it seema like they arent very plentiful like they were a couple yeats ago(maybe im not lookinh hard enough)
So next best thing would be the td04ls, around $100 each and seem to be plentiful.
I dont want it to tale forever to spool and seeing as its a standardish 253, it wont see more than 5500 rpm as I dont want to throw a rod etc.
the only thing I havent really given much thought to is intake/carby, im on the lookout for a cheapo aftermarket manifold and then im stuck with the carby question. needs to be cheap and easy enough to tune (dyno time is no problem)
Ive seen a couple budget setips where they basically enclose the.whole carby in a bucket, which means no boost referenved/sealed carbies, but its ugly and a prick to get at the carby. Would something like a quaddy work in any application?
Im thinking ill buy the turbos and then start to look at my options manifold wise, id rather high.mount them, but im not sure on zclearance with flipped std manifolds (looking for a set if anyone has any)
Well im back on building a ghettotastic tt setup on the 253, not chasing massive power and longevity is of moderate concern.
Ive been looking out for aome tf035s, but it seema like they arent very plentiful like they were a couple yeats ago(maybe im not lookinh hard enough)
So next best thing would be the td04ls, around $100 each and seem to be plentiful.
I dont want it to tale forever to spool and seeing as its a standardish 253, it wont see more than 5500 rpm as I dont want to throw a rod etc.
the only thing I havent really given much thought to is intake/carby, im on the lookout for a cheapo aftermarket manifold and then im stuck with the carby question. needs to be cheap and easy enough to tune (dyno time is no problem)
Ive seen a couple budget setips where they basically enclose the.whole carby in a bucket, which means no boost referenved/sealed carbies, but its ugly and a prick to get at the carby. Would something like a quaddy work in any application?
Im thinking ill buy the turbos and then start to look at my options manifold wise, id rather high.mount them, but im not sure on zclearance with flipped std manifolds (looking for a set if anyone has any)
#63
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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:32 PM
Boost reference a 4bbl Holley Chris. If you get a vac sec one for the right price you can convert them to mech sec for boostage applications, easyer, but i have seen people use vac sec carbs.
Really easy to do boost reference a Holley.
TD04's seem to be being used on bloody everything now days, but theres like six different types i think...
Really easy to do boost reference a Holley.
TD04's seem to be being used on bloody everything now days, but theres like six different types i think...
#64
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Posted 05 June 2011 - 08:17 PM
What size four barrell do you reckon bomber? Have you.got a guide or any pointers on building it up for boost?
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
What size four barrell do you reckon bomber? Have you.got a guide or any pointers on building it up for boost?
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
What size four barrell do you reckon bomber? Have you.got a guide or any pointers on building it up for boost?
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
What size four barrell do you reckon bomber? Have you.got a guide or any pointers on building it up for boost?
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
What size four barrell do you reckon bomber? Have you.got a guide or any pointers on building it up for boost?
Yeah there are a bunch of different variants, hopefully I can find the same two versions, the late model ones are a completely different flange too.
I need.to find me some standard exhaust manifolds now, off to the wanted section.
#65
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Posted 05 June 2011 - 08:49 PM
Once is enough mate.
A 600 would be plenty i recon, just off what you have said thus far.
Cheers.
A 600 would be plenty i recon, just off what you have said thus far.
Cheers.
#66
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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:20 PM
So todays purchases include a 4 barrel spread bore manifold with holley adapter and a 650 mech secondary holley thats only about 10 years old, and came off a running clevo (was running twin four barrells) its still silver and not tarnished like most, really clean in and out etc.
Last week I scored a td04l off ebay for cheap as chips ($100) zero shaft play, with the dump pipe too!
So on the lookout for another, going to build my own carby hat, basically a 4inch 90* mandrel bend,on end on top of the carbu. with two 2 or 2/14 pipes fed into the ovaled other end then running off either side to the turbos. via some pipework and sillicon bends.
Just need to sort out building the carby for boost, and oil feed lines etc and we will be away!
Last week I scored a td04l off ebay for cheap as chips ($100) zero shaft play, with the dump pipe too!
So on the lookout for another, going to build my own carby hat, basically a 4inch 90* mandrel bend,on end on top of the carbu. with two 2 or 2/14 pipes fed into the ovaled other end then running off either side to the turbos. via some pipework and sillicon bends.
Just need to sort out building the carby for boost, and oil feed lines etc and we will be away!
#67
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:36 AM
Tf035
Well im back on building a ghettotastic tt setup on the 253, not chasing massive power and longevity is of moderate concern.
Ive been looking out for aome tf035s, but it seema like they arent very plentiful like they were a couple yeats ago(maybe im not lookinh hard enough)
So next best thing would be the td04ls, around $100 each and seem to be plentiful.
I dont want it to tale forever to spool and seeing as its a standardish 253, it wont see more than 5500 rpm as I dont want to throw a rod etc.
the only thing I havent really given much thought to is intake/carby, im on the lookout for a cheapo aftermarket manifold and then im stuck with the carby question. needs to be cheap and easy enough to tune (dyno time is no problem)
Ive seen a couple budget setips where they basically enclose the.whole carby in a bucket, which means no boost referenved/sealed carbies, but its ugly and a prick to get at the carby. Would something like a quaddy work in any application?
Im thinking ill buy the turbos and then start to look at my options manifold wise, id rather high.mount them, but im not sure on zclearance with flipped std manifolds (looking for a set if anyone has any)
Since you are looking at making it last are you building the engine with good components like forged pistons?
#68
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:18 AM
Nope, dont see the.point.for 6-8 pound.
If it pops, it pops, ive got another 253 sitting in the corner, but its getting an ls1 transplant in the next 12 months anyway if all.goes to plan.
Im noy touching the engine at all, standard compression, standard bottom.end (although only 10k since.rebuild)
If it pops, it pops, ive got another 253 sitting in the corner, but its getting an ls1 transplant in the next 12 months anyway if all.goes to plan.
Im noy touching the engine at all, standard compression, standard bottom.end (although only 10k since.rebuild)
#69
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:01 AM
Just a couple of quick tips....
On my 6 psi effort the only carb mods were to change the floats to the black plastic ones. I messed with the jetting and only ended up going back to standard on the dyno. There was no need to externally reference the powervalve with boost below 10-12psi.
For a hat I used an old gas mixer adapter. It was designed for a Holley or Qjet and just needed a flange made up to convert the snout to whatever size pipe your running up to it.
A series 5 13BT turbo would be perfect for what you want to do, I know you have already purchased a turbo (I have no idea what a TD04L is), just saying.....
Hope this helps.
On my 6 psi effort the only carb mods were to change the floats to the black plastic ones. I messed with the jetting and only ended up going back to standard on the dyno. There was no need to externally reference the powervalve with boost below 10-12psi.
For a hat I used an old gas mixer adapter. It was designed for a Holley or Qjet and just needed a flange made up to convert the snout to whatever size pipe your running up to it.
A series 5 13BT turbo would be perfect for what you want to do, I know you have already purchased a turbo (I have no idea what a TD04L is), just saying.....
Hope this helps.
#70
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:20 PM
Thanks sstruggler, im going to run twin td04ls (std wrx turbos) I was thinking of.using a gas hat, but cant find any second.handies and would need two outlets.
Thats interesting about modding the carby, would save heaps of effort. How.much are.the solid.floats worth?
Do I need to seal off all the vacuum ports?
Thats interesting about modding the carby, would save heaps of effort. How.much are.the solid.floats worth?
Do I need to seal off all the vacuum ports?
#71
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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:24 AM
2x WRX turbos should work out fine.
The solid black floats are easy enough to find... http://www.hume.com....products_id=366
http://www.hume.com....products_id=365
Depending on which bowl you have.
You can cap off the vac ports that you don't use and wind a cable tie around them for extra security. Add a hose clamp to the PCV and Booster hoses.
The solid black floats are easy enough to find... http://www.hume.com....products_id=366
http://www.hume.com....products_id=365
Depending on which bowl you have.
You can cap off the vac ports that you don't use and wind a cable tie around them for extra security. Add a hose clamp to the PCV and Booster hoses.
#72
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Posted 05 September 2011 - 03:38 AM
I was considering a similar twin turbo conversion for my 253. Personnely, I'd run the TD05H Mitsubishi turbo's. Steel 16g compressor wheel. My Mitsubishi Vr4 runs this turbo standard and it makes
175 all wheel KW's on 15 psi all day everyday. Using general rules of thumb, thats around 215 rwkw's(280rwhp). Some people run higher boost, around 20 psi through them and they eat it up! The response of this turbo is fantasic as it's a smaller turbo. It runs out of puff around 5500-6000 rpm as it's predominetly a low end designed system.
I know these power ratings are useless because it's an entirely different motor but this show the power this turbo can handle plus it's extra potential. I know you've already bought the WRX turbo but I've heard some bad stories about them and the STI turbos are miles ahead and more reliable then the stock WRX ones. Most people when moding the rex's upgrade to STi turbo's. Still, sounds like it will be a good setup. I'm interested to see how it pans out for you as like I said, I'm potentially interested in a similar project.
John.
175 all wheel KW's on 15 psi all day everyday. Using general rules of thumb, thats around 215 rwkw's(280rwhp). Some people run higher boost, around 20 psi through them and they eat it up! The response of this turbo is fantasic as it's a smaller turbo. It runs out of puff around 5500-6000 rpm as it's predominetly a low end designed system.
I know these power ratings are useless because it's an entirely different motor but this show the power this turbo can handle plus it's extra potential. I know you've already bought the WRX turbo but I've heard some bad stories about them and the STI turbos are miles ahead and more reliable then the stock WRX ones. Most people when moding the rex's upgrade to STi turbo's. Still, sounds like it will be a good setup. I'm interested to see how it pans out for you as like I said, I'm potentially interested in a similar project.
John.
#73
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Posted 05 September 2011 - 08:28 AM
Ive yet to see any bad reports of tdo4ls, the only issue they seem to have is excessive shaft play with high KMs on them,
looks like I have a second one sorted, so its full steam ahead. I dont want to push the engine much over 5000rpm, it just wont hack it.
looks like I have a second one sorted, so its full steam ahead. I dont want to push the engine much over 5000rpm, it just wont hack it.
#74
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Posted 05 September 2011 - 11:28 AM
Awesome! Will be a cool project plus interesting to see how it turns out. Hope it works out sweet for you!
Post pics as you go so we can have a suss. Haha, you might end up convincing me to do a budget job on mine.
John.
Post pics as you go so we can have a suss. Haha, you might end up convincing me to do a budget job on mine.
John.
#75
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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:38 AM
why are you so scared of revving the engine, its a 253, they love it!
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