Hey guys, ive got just under 4 weeks to respray my Coupe ready for Motorvation... Is pretty straight and minimal rust and ive got quite a good idea of what im doing. just be good to have someone to ask questions if I get stuck and confirm what im about to do is right etc... I dont have any specific questions just yet but I know there will be.
I know I can just use the forums, and I will be too... but its good to have that instant answer and you get a conversation going on msn which I find helps alot more.
So yea if anyone would like to help add me with [email protected]
Any panel/paint Expert wanna be my MSN mentor?
Started by
_Viper_
, Dec 17 2009 07:17 PM
103 replies to this topic
#2
Heath
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:30 PM
Definitely wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I think my paintjob turned out pretty nicely. You've got me added, definitely ask if you think I can help you out. 2k or acrylic?
Cheers
Cheers
#4
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:28 AM
At the risk of sounding negative, I have a few concerns with some of your project parameters (first paint job, Motorvation, 4 weeks). If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 18 December 2009 - 01:30 AM.
#5
_Viper_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 09:32 AM
Deffinately wont be easy... Im on holidays till then and will be spending 8hrs a day on it which some help from a couple of mates. Ive got all the gear and have spayed a few panels before which turned out real good.. and Ive already got the bootlid, both doors and 1 fender in baremetal
But Yea... nothing like a deadline to get ya ass into gear... but If I dont make it I dont make it... I still have 2 weeks holidays after motorvation.
P.S Msn is this handy little internet tool where you can chat to someone in real time... every computer has it now and even my mum can use it
But Yea... nothing like a deadline to get ya ass into gear... but If I dont make it I dont make it... I still have 2 weeks holidays after motorvation.
P.S Msn is this handy little internet tool where you can chat to someone in real time... every computer has it now and even my mum can use it
#7
_Viper_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:03 PM
Sure did, If I get stuck ill be giving ya a call 
Went and bought some PPG epoxy primer today and some hardener which will get me started
Went and bought some PPG epoxy primer today and some hardener which will get me started
#8
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:05 PM
Hoorah for epoxy's, i love em haha.
#9
_Viper_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 10:55 PM
Hmm so is a hardener and a catalyst the same thing? Im assuming so, says to mix the epoxy with catalyst... but they gave me hardener...
#10
_Viper_
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 11:12 PM
dum de dum dw
Edited by Viper, 18 December 2009 - 11:22 PM.
#11
TerrA LX
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 12:24 AM
Same same.
I will add you but i'm here more than anything.
I will add you but i'm here more than anything.
#12
_Viper_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:02 AM
Ok heres one for yas... The epoxy primer says to use 0 - 20% thinners... its quite warm here atm around the 30's... how do I know how much thinner to add?
Also just reading the Technical data sheet it says
"If 410-48248 Epoxy Urethane Primer is left to
dry longer than 8 hours, it should be sanded
with P180-P240 and re-coated with itself."
So that means I have to spray the epoxy then give it a few coats of normal primer shortly after? whys that :S I thought I was supposed to put any filler on after the epoxy and before the primer? or can I use filler over the normal primer?
It says to use:
"Flash off for 25 minutes then overcoat with:
PPG Polyester Spray Filler (468 Line) WOW after 25
minutes @ 25ºC. (sanding not required)
PPG two pack acrylic urethane primer filler (467 line)
after 25 minutes @ 25ºC. (sanding not required)
PPG Polyester Body Filler after 25 minutes @ 25ºC.
(sanding not required)
2K Wet on Wet primer after 25 minutes @ 25ºC.
(sanding not required)"
Which one is best? and what does "WOW" mean?
Also just reading the Technical data sheet it says
"If 410-48248 Epoxy Urethane Primer is left to
dry longer than 8 hours, it should be sanded
with P180-P240 and re-coated with itself."
So that means I have to spray the epoxy then give it a few coats of normal primer shortly after? whys that :S I thought I was supposed to put any filler on after the epoxy and before the primer? or can I use filler over the normal primer?
It says to use:
"Flash off for 25 minutes then overcoat with:
PPG Polyester Spray Filler (468 Line) WOW after 25
minutes @ 25ºC. (sanding not required)
PPG two pack acrylic urethane primer filler (467 line)
after 25 minutes @ 25ºC. (sanding not required)
PPG Polyester Body Filler after 25 minutes @ 25ºC.
(sanding not required)
2K Wet on Wet primer after 25 minutes @ 25ºC.
(sanding not required)"
Which one is best? and what does "WOW" mean?
Edited by Viper, 19 December 2009 - 10:10 AM.
#13
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 11:43 AM
Ok, starting from the top, the amount of thinner depends on how much build you need, just go strait for 20%.
WOW means wet on wet.
I've never used that particular primer but i cant see why you would have to put anything different over it, or itself, should be able to put top coat strait over after sanding and most epoxy's i've used want a lot longer than 8 hours to flash off....
Im going to take a random guess and say the first one, 2k poly spray filler 468 line is best, usually they put them in order of preference.
I've always put filler over bare metal, im old fassioned, but one day will try the whole over primer thing.
Just re read all that and realized im of no use to anyone
Cheers.
WOW means wet on wet.
I've never used that particular primer but i cant see why you would have to put anything different over it, or itself, should be able to put top coat strait over after sanding and most epoxy's i've used want a lot longer than 8 hours to flash off....
Im going to take a random guess and say the first one, 2k poly spray filler 468 line is best, usually they put them in order of preference.
I've always put filler over bare metal, im old fassioned, but one day will try the whole over primer thing.
Just re read all that and realized im of no use to anyone
Cheers.
#14
_2runa_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 12:37 PM
Bomber are you saying as a rule the you can place filler (bog) over an epoxy primer filler or epoxy etch primer without going back to metalI've always put filler over bare metal, im old fashioned, but one day will try the whole over primer thing.
Cheers.
maybe I'm ...school as well
#15
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 01:35 PM
Apparently mate, yes, i can definitely see the many benefits of doing it that way.
I have done it in small portions at work on trucks just experimenting with no dramas yet.
Obviously if its only a small imperfection then you just use a bit of spot putty, i use Upol Hot Shot, great stuff.
Just bigger imperfections that im not so sure about.......But like i said i'll try it one day, probably on the LH.
Cheers.
I have done it in small portions at work on trucks just experimenting with no dramas yet.
Obviously if its only a small imperfection then you just use a bit of spot putty, i use Upol Hot Shot, great stuff.
Just bigger imperfections that im not so sure about.......But like i said i'll try it one day, probably on the LH.
Cheers.
#16
_yldlj_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 02:27 PM
your only supposed to put 2k putty on small dents you may have missed and also any pin holes that are showing. are you only doing spot repairs? or are you going to be 2k priming the whole car? i would be mixing with 20% thinners. let it dry over night. once the whole car is in 2pac primer guide coat it with gm black.block it back with 180 grit.putty up any small dents you can see and rub putty with 120grit. reapply the primer. 180 it then use 320. if you have gone through to any bare metal once all rubbed back get some etch primer onto those spots and siuper fine them.
Edited by yldlj, 19 December 2009 - 02:30 PM.
#17
_Viper_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 02:42 PM
Im bare-metaling the whole car as its acrylic and has about 4 coats of paint (black, darkblue, light blue then the original bronze)
That data sheet isnt for the exact primer I got... The one I got is 410-34294 Epoxy Primer Beige... But I cant find the data sheet for it anywhere. On the small instructions on the back of the tin it says it doesnt need any sanding and doesnt mention 8hrs working time to apply another primer so maybe its a little different.
Doing the bootlid first and I just need to put a little bit of filler where the lock has been cut out and plated... and there seems to be a small gouge from a grinder in the top corner.
On the tafe course they said to use the filler on top of the epoxy but under the primer
Ok so 20% thinner it is..
Should I sand the baremetal with anything? 180? 220? or just leave it... (I use paint stripper and a clean n strip disc to stop the paint to its pretty smooth)
That data sheet isnt for the exact primer I got... The one I got is 410-34294 Epoxy Primer Beige... But I cant find the data sheet for it anywhere. On the small instructions on the back of the tin it says it doesnt need any sanding and doesnt mention 8hrs working time to apply another primer so maybe its a little different.
Doing the bootlid first and I just need to put a little bit of filler where the lock has been cut out and plated... and there seems to be a small gouge from a grinder in the top corner.
On the tafe course they said to use the filler on top of the epoxy but under the primer
Ok so 20% thinner it is..
Should I sand the baremetal with anything? 180? 220? or just leave it... (I use paint stripper and a clean n strip disc to stop the paint to its pretty smooth)
#18
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 02:54 PM
Sand with 180 till its all nicely keyed.
#19
_yldlj_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:27 PM
definatly sand it after been paint stripped. i would 180 it to. i never use epoxy so im not sure about it. at work we just etch prime and 2k spray putty the panels. just because te car is acrylic u dont need to take back the paint as the 2l primer willl cover it but it is always good to see whats under al the paint. with the epoxy i would spary it on then let it go touch dry then spray your 2k spray putty over it. is that what the instructions say?
#20
TerrA LX
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:49 PM
Following the directions is key to a good lasting finish with 2K.
I have never used that product but it sounds like straight etch, i use etch primer which which can be coated over but this one sounds like it needs a primer over it before coating.
So as with acrylic, you need to etch, let it flash then prime.
I don't really think it matters what primer you use but the key here is to apply it soon after or you will have to sand the etch, re apply it again then primer.
If in doubt I suggest contacting the supplier for their recommendation, as an agent they should be happy to help.
FYI you can use 2K filler over the primer but this is for minor scratches and dimples etc missed while repairing, any substantial repair should be made on bare metal and the whole area primed and blocked, then once all that is done, etch and prime the rest of the car in preparation for a block down.
I have never used that product but it sounds like straight etch, i use etch primer which which can be coated over but this one sounds like it needs a primer over it before coating.
So as with acrylic, you need to etch, let it flash then prime.
I don't really think it matters what primer you use but the key here is to apply it soon after or you will have to sand the etch, re apply it again then primer.
If in doubt I suggest contacting the supplier for their recommendation, as an agent they should be happy to help.
FYI you can use 2K filler over the primer but this is for minor scratches and dimples etc missed while repairing, any substantial repair should be made on bare metal and the whole area primed and blocked, then once all that is done, etch and prime the rest of the car in preparation for a block down.
#21
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:54 PM
Thats what i was thinking terra, but by rule Epoxy's are usually one stage kind of primers.
For instance the primer i would have used in vipers position, Protec EX-408, you just put that over bare metal and its about as high fill as you can get strait up. Then after blocking 2k top coats go strait over that.
Every epoxy i have used has been like that....im confused with this one.
Viper, is it really thick or really thin??
Cheers.
For instance the primer i would have used in vipers position, Protec EX-408, you just put that over bare metal and its about as high fill as you can get strait up. Then after blocking 2k top coats go strait over that.
Every epoxy i have used has been like that....im confused with this one.
Viper, is it really thick or really thin??
Cheers.
#22
_Viper_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 06:00 PM
Havnt opened the tin yet... And that data sheet isnt the exact one for my product... but I cant seem to find a matching one anywhere on the net. So ill go back to em on monday and see if they can provide one (they should, legally you have to have the TDS and MSDS for every product you sell right?
Spoke to my mate who is a 1st year app and he said most epoxys you dont have a set time to spray the primer on but you do have to use a primer and cant spray the basecoat direct over the epoxy... He uses PPG at work too.
Spoke to my mate who is a 1st year app and he said most epoxys you dont have a set time to spray the primer on but you do have to use a primer and cant spray the basecoat direct over the epoxy... He uses PPG at work too.
#23
_yldlj_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 06:06 PM
i agree aswell i would just be using etch primer over the panel then 2pac primer. its easier thats way epoxy sounds like it does the same as etch. we use standox at work.
#24
brocks72xu1
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 07:19 PM
hi bomberOk, starting from the top, the amount of thinner depends on how much build you need, just go strait for 20%.
WOW means wet on wet.
I've never used that particular primer but i cant see why you would have to put anything different over it, or itself, should be able to put top coat strait over after sanding and most epoxy's i've used want a lot longer than 8 hours to flash off....
Im going to take a random guess and say the first one, 2k poly spray filler 468 line is best, usually they put them in order of preference.
I've always put filler over bare metal, im old fassioned, but one day will try the whole over primer thing.
Just re read all that and realized im of no use to anyone
Cheers.
you are 100% correct ,but im not a big fan of poly spray filler ,panel shop still go the old fashion way ,but when i do resto's i tend to repair as much as i can using easy beats ,hammer and dollys and a body file ,then apply epoxy over bare metal allow to dry for up to weeks then guide coat and block with 180 grit ,if there is any imperfections you may fill with some body filler ,this way you dont get any moisture under the filler and hands are not touching bare steel,re epoxy and then hifill
cheers grant
#25
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:52 PM
Excellent mate cheers for that, thats about how i figured it went.
As i said i can see many benefits from putting filler over primer, just have yet to try it.
Think the LH i may do that way.
Cheers.
As i said i can see many benefits from putting filler over primer, just have yet to try it.
Think the LH i may do that way.
Cheers.
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